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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:30 am 
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Many things in life are based on what we see. Our perception of things influences us greatly. Based on sight and sound.

If you paid $75 to see Aerosmith and when the curtain came up you saw a tiny system similar to a Boss Tower PA system, what would you feel like? Would you be getting you money's worth. People want to feel and see the experience.

Just because it looks and sounds great in your living room doesn't mean it's meant for every room.

First thing you would notice is the sound doesn't fill the room. It won't sound full, much less loud. The little bit of sound probably wouldn't even reach past the half way mark. The equipment doesn't fit the venue.

Second you would just see all the guys standing there with their instruments. It would look like the early Beatles and other groups on Ed Sullivan and other variety shows. In those days the massive PA systems weren't even invented. They developed over the years.

In a bar the typical KJ, DJ or even local bands can't put on a big concert type presentation. But some try. Many don't.

It costs money to buy all the equipment necessary.

I get many musicians at my shows. They like what they hear. Most musicians know and understand what it takes to sound professional.

Every instrument must be heard loud and clear. This comes from quality equipment that can reproduce the sound accurately.

If it's computer generated that means a high quality sound card.

Cheap equipment can't and won't do this. So it goes right down the line. The mixer, the EQ, amplifier, speakers and microphones.

It not only sounds impressive it should look impressive. No decent singer or musician is going to want to use cheap sounding equipment. If it looks cheap or sounds cheap.

I can notice a difference in sound in the bars I play. I consider my system big enough to fill every bar in my area, regardless of size. But there will be a difference in loudness from the front to the back of the room. Based on how many people are in that space. Less people the better it sounds. That could be for two reasons. Crowd noise level and the amount of bodies absorbing/blocking the sound.

Using lessor systems would result in an even larger sound difference.

Seeing KJs that use only tiny speakers on a pole or one on a pole and the other on the floor "acting" like a sub doesn't create any type of an impressive feeling. Nobody is going to say..wow.... I'll be blown away tonight or this is so impressive.

I see people talking about..my system could fill a small or medium venue. Most KJs only have one inadequate system let alone different systems for different venues. Again the way any system sounds is based on the number of bodies and crowd noise. Most bars regardless of size, are noisy. If there is a sporting event on with the sound down the crowd still reacts to every play by making more noise.

I have played bars that are always very high levels of crowd noise all night long. People have to stand in front of the speakers to hear themselves. If you walk to the back of the bar you can barely hear the music. That's with my system. Anything less wouldn't have been worth anything.

I don't think many KJs are delivering close to enough. I had a band singer tell me they use a PA system like mine for seven singer/musicians. I was surprised because I would have probably used more PA for their type of band. Seven musicans is pretty impressive but the PA system wouldn't have conveyed that. Too small looking for seven musicians. And I don't know if it would sound as good as it could. For her band I would have used at least double what I have now.

I hope I'm delivering a unique karaoke impressive experience for my singers. That's my goal, anyway.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:34 pm 
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My sound system depends on the venue. Most venues I have 2 1400 watt RCF HD 32's and 1 qsc 12 in monitor. I always try to have at least 2 or more tv's hooked up for the singer and the audience. I love good sound so I use Shure wireless mics. I agree on the sound card and have purchased many until I found the one I liked best.

Unlike some here, I don't believe a sub is necessary for karaoke. For weddings, dj'ing and special events I usually use 1 or more subs. For trivia, rock &roll bingo, etc I can usually get away with just 2 speakers or even hook into the house system.

Saying all this, I still think the host is the most important aspect in the entertainment business. Having great equipment is essential but if the host doesn't know how to operate it, you're screwed. If the host is boring and spends the night on his phone or doing shots, etc. the show suffers. If he shows favoritism in rotation, takes bribes, doesn't get the audience involved, the show suffers

To the average customer who walks in on karaoke night. they're going to see 2 speakers on sticks, some mics, tv and some mixing gear. The host will always set the mood for the evening. If he or she is a friendly professional, engaging, etc. the show will more than often succeed. Though sound is important, I still think the host brings the most to the table. I've seen many a successful show with average sound and a killer host. I don't often see the reverse.

I was and still am a licensed auctioneer. This may be why I think the way I do. Hell, I've done auctions out of the back of a pick-up truck with a half-mile haler barking out numbers for hours. The key to success was being excited. I had to make that storage shed I was selling seem like it was a hidden gold mine to a potential buyer. I kinds feel the same way about the entertainment business. Be engaged, excited and act like you want to be there. So many hosts are distracted by cell phones, opposite sex, drama, etc. If you can convince your crowd that you are having fun then it's almost impossible for them not to! You don't need a 10,000 dollar system to get it!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:20 pm 
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this video will answer your questions. If it's good enough for foreigner then it's good enough for aerosmith.

I myself was always intrigued with Big speakers and big sound with Marshall guitar amps on the left and Ampeg Bass an the right... "Looks is everything" but I've changed. Enjoy the clip.



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:47 pm 
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karaokeniagarafalls wrote:
this video will answer your questions. If it's good enough for foreigner then it's good enough for aerosmith.

I myself was always intrigued with Big speakers and big sound with Marshall guitar amps on the left and Ampeg Bass an the right... "Looks is everything" but I've changed. Enjoy the clip.


AGAIN! This video is a small acoustic set in a small club setting - no drums, not being used as full blown PA system. They have FOUR sticks & FOUR subs that are easily seen - two in back as stage monitors, 2 up front for audience, may have more elsewhere in the club that is not shown. So just for the 4 sets alone would run approx $10,500. I'm sure Foreigner are either supplied with these by Bose or they are hired by Bose for the demo.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:55 pm 
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Sorry to bust your bubble but this is a karaoke forum and in most cases karaoke is mainly catered in smaller events.

Besides, you know how much it costs to rent a stadium system? A heck of a lot more then 10k just to rent for one day.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:28 pm 
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karaokeniagarafalls wrote:
Sorry to bust your bubble but this is a karaoke forum and in most cases karaoke is mainly catered in smaller events.
Yes but unfortunately many do not consider karaoke to need anything more than small systems to begin with because hey it's just karaoke.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:22 pm 
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johnsmith wrote:

I hope I'm delivering a unique karaoke impressive experience for my singers. That's my goal, anyway.

So, what does this alleged equipment that your using consist of?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:26 am 
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If you break it down to the most basic questions:
1. How much air space to fill ?
2. What sound pressure level ?
After that it's your choice as to what equipment you plan to use to move the air!

From my own experiences I have yet to encounter great sound from any KJ. Main objections are vast overuse of effects, and improperly EQ'd sound, regardless of SPL.

I know that everyone who gets paid to perform KJ services is considered a 'professional'. But providing great sound support is a distinct skill set, and somewhat rare IMHO.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:59 am 
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First and foremost, I'm not a BOSE fan.

That said, I am certain that the KJ cares more about the sound than 95% of the singers, and often, the KJ doesn't really care either. Everyone notices when the sound ISN'T good, but they could care less if you go from good sound to good+ sound.

No one walks into a karaoke bar and goes "Oh s**t, they have a BOSE system. We're not staying."

In most small to medium venues, the BOSE systems are well above the threshold for what singer's expect, and you're just not going to get many complaints. Most of us KJs care a million times more about our sound than they do once you are above the threshold where no one notices poor sound reinforcement.

Each room is different, and there is no system that is perfect in every room, no matter how much money you spend.

I also disagree that karaoke singer care about seeing big stacks of speakers. Again, they just want it to work. They want to clearly hear themselves and the music on stage and they want the audience to be able to clearly hear them and the music from the mains. That's about the extent of it.

So if you are just starting out as a KJ, I'd worry much less about getting the latest and greatest equipment, and more on getting something at a suitable entry level for your venue then slowly upgrading. I'd then focus on learning how to use everything and tweaking sound much more than I'd care about if my system was BOSE or EV. Give me a $1000 budget for a system and I'll make it sound better than most venues I've visited with $3000-5000 systems, because I took the time to learn how everything works and the theory behind sound reinforcement.

It took me many years to figure this out, but once your system has reached a certain level, there just isn't any real ROI on upgrading anymore. When I realized that, I actually even downgraded a bit in quality in favor of portability.

That other thread nails it right on the head, that upgrading gear is a disease that inflicts the KJ. Once you are to a certain level, there just is no ROI and the singers generally just don't care.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:27 am 
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When you talk ROI, you must remember we never stop upgrading but because we offer such a service for karaoke that brings an income, there will always be room for upgrading and ROI even at the highest levels.

Just the other day I went to visit a friend who upgraded to the Soundcraft Digital console and now I see him with a brand new MIDAS digital console. You know you overspend when you have a limited budget of income, but when your using the equipment 3 times a week, it tends to pay off pretty quick.

I am happy to read many posts in this forum and i'm also experienced enough to share my thoughts on starting with so so equipment and then upgrade as the money comes in... save yourself time, trouble and money and buy the best stuff right from the start. Payoff is much better than dealing with the "So So"" and amateur like experiences.

If you start off with the best gear, the best sound, the best kj attitude... you will grow your company much faster for the long term. Returning customers start from scratch


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:43 pm 
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Nothing cracks me up more than when someone tries to validate their opinion by showing an endorsement by a "big time" band or performer etc., like as if they're going to convince me that what I'm hearing isn't what I'm hearing. Just tells me that you don't trust your own ears in understanding what it is that you're listening too. If you've ever spent 8 to 10 or more hours per day for several years at a recording console, unless you're totally deaf, you can't help but end up with "trained" ears. A good analogy would be to illustrate the differences between relative pitch and perfect pitch, neither or which someone is born with but takes time to develop. Most musicians at some point in time master the concept of relative pitch while most musicians rarely master the concept of perfect pitch. So the difference being that if you played a C note without telling the listener the identity of that note, the musician with perfect pitch will be able to identify that note as a C note while the musician who only possesses relative pitch and the lesser training cannot identify that note at all. However if you told the musician with relative pitch that it was a C note and you played a second note, let's say the 7th note in the scale, that musician will be able to identify that as a B note in which of course he would be correct.

So here's the point, most musicians/DJs/KJs with "hands-on" or OJT that have used mobile PA systems over a period of time have developed an ear (analogous to relative pitch) as to the "accuracy" of one system in comparison to another. Unfortunately more often than not they don't have two or more systems to compare to in real time so they, like their relative pitch musician counterparts, cannot make the same qualitative analysis as can the person with trained hearing skills analogous to the musician with the perfect pitch. It's only after having spent a significant amount of time listening to audio content, that you can distinguish the characteristics of one group of frequencies as compared to another. Once you're able to do that you don't need to have some celebrity endorse the integrity of the system he/she is being paid to endorse. Your own ears will tell you what's there and what isn't there. You should also bear in mind that being a rock star does not necessarily equate with someone with "big" ears or even good ears for that matter. You might be surprised as to how many rock stars don't have very good ears or are even all that good of musicians for that matter.

I agree with a lot of what TopherM has said in his post. Especially the part where after many years of adding/upgrading, I ended up going the other way. At the very end of my career I pretty much only did solo gigs with a pair of JBL eons and a single sub. If the venue was a bit too large for the eons then I had a pair of Klipsch folded horns and a Crown DC300 (yep this was back in the day of Class AB amps). That's it! No EQ other than the bass and treble shelving and mid sweep that was on the mixer.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:31 am 
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karaokeniagarafalls wrote:
...save yourself time, trouble and money and buy the best stuff right from the start.

With that, I totally agree.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:37 am 
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TopherM wrote:

No one walks into a karaoke bar and goes "Oh s**t, they have a BOSE system. We're not staying."


I do.

Just kidding. The devil made me do it. lol

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:42 am 
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karaokeniagarafalls wrote:
this video will answer your questions. If it's good enough for foreigner then it's good enough for aerosmith.


I hope you realize that this is a paid endorsement. And it's not the first time that a popular artist was paid to endorse this company. Remember, this company is a marketing genius. Using celebrities to help promote their products... and obviously it works. After all, you bought into it, didn't you? :D

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:55 am 
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Alan B wrote:
karaokeniagarafalls wrote:
...save yourself time, trouble and money and buy the best stuff right from the start.

With that, I totally agree.

That might work today but when I started, there wasn't a pay while play plan that made the"best" gear affordable unless you are lucky enough to have a decent credit card. I didn't so I bought what I could afford at the time and upgraded when I could afford to. Even if I were starting out now, it would have taken several months before I would be ready to go.
By the way, the "best" gear is entirely subjective. Everyone has a different opinion on what is the"best" gear and all those opinions are really valid for everyone because everyone's ability to use them varies.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:37 pm 
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Determining "the best" we all agree on would take forever, but choosing "the best I can afford right now" is pretty easy :lol: Agreed get the best you can afford when starting out and it'll serve you well. I already had a few thousand songs just for home use when I decided to get into the business, but it still took two years before I did my first paid party, because I insisted on decent gear to start and I had almost no way to buy any. Bought one part one month, another 4 months later, etc. The advantage to that slow start is that most of "system one" was good enough to use for almost a decade, and that sure saved money in the long run. My mixer was two years old and virtually unused before it met the speakers. But I can safely say at least my sound never totally sucked, even for my first show.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:59 pm 
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I have one last piece to add to my system and I will be ready to play out again. Basically not looking for a gig until I get the last piece, which I really can't gig without. Yeah, I have had offers from friends that they were willing to let me borrow powered speakers until I get my L1. RLC, thanks for your suggestion to go with a more powerful unit than the Compact. I am going with the L1 S1 system with the B2 Bass module. Going to cost me more a month but I would rather have close to overkill than not enough power.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:30 pm 
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I still find the L1 to be more of like a (High end starter system)

Even though the BOSE B2 subs ($500 value) kick pretty good, I think my BOSE MB4's ($1000.00 Value) blow the b2's out of the water. I grabbed a pair of the MB4's on ebay for $200 each.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:04 am 
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karaokeniagarafalls wrote:
I still find the L1 to be more of like a (High end starter system)
I find quite the opposite. A system that would work in my club would run about $10K, I get a kick (@$%&#!) sound for about $3k that would blow away any Bose system in the same price.

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