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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:05 am 
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mrscott wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
Mr.Scott is that the solution to every problem if some says something you don't like they should be banished, so you can continue to live in your own little world. The purpose of this forum I thought was the exchange of ideas, much like Universities used to be, before political correctness. Now you want this forum to get rid of anyone that doesn't agree with your point of view. Isn't that a dictatorial view and a danger to free speech?


No, I have zero problem with someone who has a difference of opinion than I do, or even the majority of the people. That is and always will be awesome in my book. But what you are doing is so low, I cannot imagine someone in this industry thinking it's ok, or even welcome on this forum. Think back at how many times obvious pirates have come on here to ask questions, only to get told to take their comments elsewhere. I just don't know how you can't see, or WON'T see what you are doing is plainly wrong.

If you had said that this idea of yours to "save" these clubs was honestly temporary, meaning short term (thinking 3 weeks max) and not this "until the end of the pandemic" crap. You know as well as I do, the virus is NOT going away, it's something we ALL will have to deal with for decades to come. If you were to charge these lodges, or choose not to do what you are doing at all, these places will adjust, either close their doors or adapt to the new ways. What are you hoping to teach these people who are supposed to be "managing" these lodges? I know without a shadow of a doubt they are taking advantage of you and laughing all the way to the bank.

I believe the pandemic is not going away any time soon and will be with us for a while. Maybe not decades but for a couple of years at least.

So LR, if the pandemic is with us for another couple of years... does that mean you're going to work two more years for free?

If you stopped working for these clubs and they stopped karaoke or dj entertainment... trust me, they are not going to go out of business just because you're not there anymore. You are very insignificant to them. Whether they succeed or fail is based on themselves... not you.

Now, answer this question...

How are you going to feel when you stop working and another KJ tries to take over at these clubs... and is laughed out of place because he (or she) actually wants to get paid for their services but the club won't pay them since they're used to free entertainment.

You have spoiled them and as a result, hurt other KJ's in the long run.

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:07 am 
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You can "justify" your actions any way you want there buddy, but I just don't agree and know what you are doing is wrong. End of discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:20 am 
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Let's get something strait, this pandemic would be in the rear view mirror right today, if the 64 million anti vaxxers were fully vaccinated. It is to the point now where little children will not get their shots even if it is approved by the CDC and FDA. Their parents will stop them from getting their shots, something our parents would never have even considered. So this indicates to me these parents are totally irresponsible. Our economy will collapse unless we solve this problem, and solve it soon. Then no body is going to care about any hosts show, that is the bottom line.

P.S. By the way Alan who is more insignificant a host that is out in public, or one who sits home and doesn't play at all?


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:51 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
P.S. By the way Alan who is more insignificant a host that is out in public, or one who sits home and doesn't play at all?

In the normal scheme of things, where karaoke hosts work and get paid for their services, the answer would be the one who sits at home.

However, we are talking about your contribution to the club. It is very insignificant. Whether they fail or succeed is not going to be because of anything you're doing (aka providing free entertainment). So, in that respect, whether you are there or not is insignificant.

It all comes down to management. That, my friend, is the determining factor. Not whether or not you provide free entertainment. Apparently, they have had some very profitable nights and I'm sure could have easily paid for entertainment.

Let's face it... everybody likes "free". Who doesn't? If you can get something for free, even though you can afford to pay for it, why wouldn't you take it? Most would.

Again, they don't need you. And they can certainly afford to pay for entertainment. Why can't you see this? Why can't you see that you're hurting the next guy who wants to take over when you quit because the club is spoiled by not having to pay for entertainment.

This is so wrong... to both the industry and your fellow KJ's (and DJ's).

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:29 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
Let it be known, the problem is not the pandemic. It's people not wanting to work. The jobs are out there. Tons of them, but they would rather stay home and collect unemployment.


It's significantly more complicated than people "would rather stay home and collect unemployment."

Alan B wrote:
This holds true in every market. But eventually, those benefits will run out and people will have no choice but to go back to work.


But it... doesn't? If the rate is going up for workers in your area (and it sounds like it may be), those places may just want to start paying people more. That's what we've done (different business entirely, but still front-facing) and even before a lot of the supplemental stuff went away (that may be on a state-by-state basis in some ways), we were still getting a good chunk of applicants in the majority of our locations. I'm actually travelling now to train some new staff and working with their new district manager who just got promoted from a store manager position.

On the karaoke side, to keep it on topic, went to a hybrid private room / main stage place last night, and had a great time (and even though the crowd wasn't what I would call big, the place was well staffed--a door guy, three bartenders). Meeting up with some folks from that at another karaoke spot tonight as this is a new city for me on that front--we invested in this area six months before the pandemic, and the last times I came out here, there was nothing open and available on that front due to the restrictions in place.

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:09 am 
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Don't be looking for things to go back to normal as far as workers are concerned. That is why in the month of October so many workers are on strike, calling the month strike-tober.


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:15 am 
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Alan B wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
P.S. By the way Alan who is more insignificant a host that is out in public, or one who sits home and doesn't play at all?

In the normal scheme of things, where karaoke hosts work and get paid for their services, the answer would be the one who sits at home.

However, we are talking about your contribution to the club. It is very insignificant. Whether they fail or succeed is not going to be because of anything you're doing (aka providing free entertainment). So, in that respect, whether you are there or not is insignificant.

It all comes down to management. That, my friend, is the determining factor. Not whether or not you provide free entertainment. Apparently, they have had some very profitable nights and I'm sure could have easily paid for entertainment.

Let's face it... everybody likes "free". Who doesn't? If you can get something for free, even though you can afford to pay for it, why wouldn't you take it? Most would.

Again, they don't need you. And they can certainly afford to pay for entertainment. Why can't you see this? Why can't you see that you're hurting the next guy who wants to take over when you quit because the club is spoiled by not having to pay for entertainment.

This is so wrong... to both the industry and your fellow KJ's (and DJ's).


One thing you are missing in all of this Alan is this is a new concept for my area, that what I'm doing is totally experimental, and there is no guarantee it will work long term. I am still in the process of seeing if it will work? It is not like doing something established like karaoke, and it is a harder sell. When and if we get by the pandemic, it is hoped things will go back to normal. If we don't go back to normal, we will all have to adjust to what the new normal happens to be.

P.S. Again I must point out Alan that you can't have it both ways, you can't say in one breath what I'm doing is insignificant, then talk about how what I'm doing is going to destroy the entire industry. It either matters or it doesn't. If it doesn't what is your problem?


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:21 am 
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mrscott wrote:
You can "justify" your actions any way you want there buddy, but I just don't agree and know what you are doing is wrong. End of discussion.


According to you.


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:32 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Don't be looking for things to go back to normal as far as workers are concerned.

Kind of like what you're doing, right? It is not normal for a person to perform a job and not get paid for it.

The pandemic is no excuse. People still have to eat and have bills to pay. I don't know anyone, who would go to work and refuse to be paid, with the exception of yourself.

So, once again, your actions are only keeping things from returning to "normal". In your case, by hosting karaoke or playing DJ for free, you are:

Sending a message to venues that karaoke is worthless entertainment.
Sending a message to venues that KJ's have no self worth and shouldn't be paid for their services.
Contributing to the further decline of the industry.
Making it hard for a KJ who takes over a job, once you quit, to be paid for his services.
Not supporting your fellow KJ's, showing them that you could care less about them.

LR, you are a very despicable man. I don't know anyone who would have any respect for you and what you're doing. Your actions are only hurtful... not helpful. I have nothing more to say.

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:51 am 
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You are still talking about KJ's what I'm doing is not KJ, according to you I'm not really a DJ in the classic sense. Therefore I should not be charging for what I do, I work as a member volunteer. Since in your opinion I'm not a professional anyway. I make no promises, just go out and do my thing. Maybe it isn't worth anything, if I took money I would be committing fraud if I did take a wage?

P.S. KJ's are not just in competition with other KJ's, they compete with other forms of entertainment, bands, solo players, trivia night, bingo, DJ's, special events, sports, the list goes on and on.


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:17 am 
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Alan B wrote:

Now, answer this question...

How are you going to feel when you stop working and another KJ tries to take over at these clubs... and is laughed out of place because he (or she) actually wants to get paid for their services but the club won't pay them since they're used to free entertainment.

You have spoiled them and as a result, hurt other KJ's in the long run.


The answer Alan is simple it is up to every worker to decide what the terms of their employment is. This is especially true for KJ's since they are for the most part independent contractors, hired to do a job. If somehow things do go back to normal, I would expect hosts could once again justify their cost to the venue. I don't call having less than 12 patrons at a show, justification for paying 150.00 a night.


Last edited by The Lone Ranger on Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:55 am 
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Here's a thought, if Lone actually got a free dinner and drinks, he's still getting paid as the food and drinks are paid for by the customers.

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:09 am 
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Alan B wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
Don't be looking for things to go back to normal as far as workers are concerned.

Kind of like what you're doing, right? It is not normal for a person to perform a job and not get paid for it.


It also depends on "paid."

I do consulting on the side. I no longer advertise it, or seek it out, but if I know someone personally, and care for them, it's a service I'll do for free. I'm paid in the satisfaction of seeing someone succeed, I feel valued and appreciated, and I'm paid in the "it gives me something to do" thing that I crave--if my plate isn't full, I get antsy (it's really hard for me to just take a vacation and simply "relax" and not set up a whole itinerary of activities).

That's where the karaoke podcast came from, sort of. My partner on it and I had talked about doing one for a while, and now that he's back in school after doing his term in the Navy. One of his classes needed something like a podcast for a project, and that's what started it for us. With his work and school schedule and personal life (just got engaged) taking up a lot of the time, I'm handling the scripting, the editing, the publishing, the marketing, and the guest booking (where originally, I was just doing the scripting and guest booking) but I don't mind. It's a lot of work, but it's fun work, and it keeps me as busy as I want to be.

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:42 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
Here's a thought, if Lone actually got a free dinner and drinks, he's still getting paid as the food and drinks are paid for by the customers.


I have been offered both, but I don't like eating and drinking around my equipment. I especially don't drink, drink drinks when working, most professionals don't.


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:11 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
You are still talking about KJ's what I'm doing is not KJ, according to you I'm not really a DJ in the classic sense.

Whether you are a DJ or a KJ, it's still in the same category. And you are still providing the entertainment. So, KJ or DJ, you are providing a service in which you should be paid.

Now, look at it like this... whether people come out to sing (KJ) or to dance (DJ) the bar is still making money off of the people who came out. And they're coming out because of the entertainment you're providing. So, therefore... either way.... you should be getting paid.

Now, here's a scenario: Let's use DJ night only. You decide to stop working and the club decides that they only want a DJ dance night instead of karaoke. So, when a DJ tries to take over, the club doesn't want to pay him since they're used to free entertainment. Maybe they will offer him $20 for the night or maybe a drink or two. Of course, most DJ's won't accept this in which case we have you to blame for setting the "new" standard. I know you think that all KJ's/DJ's should be happy just to get a job let alone get paid for it.

Please support your fellow KJ/DJ... the ones who are trying to earn a living from it... or at the very least, need the supplementary income in order to get by.

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:59 am 
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Just one problem with this if I were to stop doing whatever it is I'm doing, there isn't another DJ in the area to take over the slot anyway. That and the simple fact is no slots existed before I brought them into being. The bottom line is like the rest of you I am an independent contractor and can charge whatever I deem is right, not have others set the price I should ask. If I'm not getting money I could even use barter to charge for my show. This is the way it has always been, why should I do things differently? The whole point is there is no money to be earned by anyone under the current situation, that exists today. When the reality shifts I will shift with it, and probably go back to tending my roses.

P.S. Have you ever considered Alan that live entertainment might not survive the pandemic, along with other industries that are on the ropes. That maybe things when they do right themselves might put us all in a different reality. I don't know if you watched the movie "The Postman", Kevin Costner in the movie was a wandering story teller reading lines from works of Shakespeare, for his supper, drink, and bed for the night. This was after the collapse of civilization of course.


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:08 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Just one problem with this if I were to stop doing whatever it is I'm doing, there isn't another DJ in the area to take over the slot anyway. That and the simple fact is no slots existed before I brought them into being. The bottom line is like the rest of you I am an independent contractor and can charge whatever I deem is right, not have others set the price I should ask. If I'm not getting money I could even use barter to charge for my show. This is the way it has always been, why should I do things differently? The whole point is there is no money to be earned by anyone under the current situation, that exists today. When the reality shifts I will shift with it, and probably go back to tending my roses.

P.S. Have you ever considered Alan that live entertainment might not survive the pandemic, along with other industries that are on the ropes. That maybe things when they do right themselves might put us all in a different reality. I don't know if you watched the movie "The Postman", Kevin Costner in the movie was a wandering story teller reading lines from works of Shakespeare, for his supper, drink, and bed for the night. This was after the collapse of civilization of course.

The way I see it is we are in better shape now than before the vaccine was available. While 40% of the people still remain unvaccinated, it's still much better than before. And people are going out more than before.

Most bars have returned to normal, operating like pre pandemic. The biggest problem with bars right now is not the pandemic, it's that they need help and nobody wants to fill those positions.

I disagree about your view of entertainment. It's not going anywhere. Bars are still having entertainment and people are packing them in. Actually, this is the best it's been since the pandemic started.

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:09 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
Just one problem with this if I were to stop doing whatever it is I'm doing, there isn't another DJ in the area to take over the slot anyway. That and the simple fact is no slots existed before I brought them into being. The bottom line is like the rest of you I am an independent contractor and can charge whatever I deem is right, not have others set the price I should ask. If I'm not getting money I could even use barter to charge for my show. This is the way it has always been, why should I do things differently? The whole point is there is no money to be earned by anyone under the current situation, that exists today. When the reality shifts I will shift with it, and probably go back to tending my roses.

P.S. Have you ever considered Alan that live entertainment might not survive the pandemic, along with other industries that are on the ropes. That maybe things when they do right themselves might put us all in a different reality. I don't know if you watched the movie "The Postman", Kevin Costner in the movie was a wandering story teller reading lines from works of Shakespeare, for his supper, drink, and bed for the night. This was after the collapse of civilization of course.

The way I see it is we are in better shape now than before the vaccine was available. While 40% of the people still remain unvaccinated, it's still much better than before. And people are going out more than before.

Most bars have returned to normal, operating like pre pandemic. The biggest problem with bars right now is not the pandemic, it's that they need help and nobody wants to fill those positions.

I disagree about your view of entertainment. It's not going anywhere. Bars are still having entertainment and people are packing them in. Actually, this is the best it's been since the pandemic started.

Pre pandemic there were shows almost every night of the week in my town. Even though everything is opened up there's only three bars in my town that have karaoke and the rest aren't interested. In fact one bar that had music bingo followed by karaoke now has zero entertainment whatsoever.

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:08 pm 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
Even though everything is opened up there's only three bars in my town that have karaoke and the rest aren't interested. In fact one bar that had music bingo followed by karaoke now has zero entertainment whatsoever.

Danny, why do you think that is? Did any of these bars cut their hours or days? Aside from the 3 bars in your town that have karaoke, why do you think everybody else stopped? Could it be that they're short staffed like everybody else?

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:16 pm 
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Danny... I believe the bars that stopped offering entertainment will ultimately fail. Most people go to a bar for the entertainment it offers. Whether they have a DJ, karaoke, band, trivia, bingo, etc.... nobody is going to go to a bar that has nothing. It wouldn't be much fun now would it? Part of going out is to have fun... otherwise, I can just stay home and drink. Totally stupid move for a bar to offer no entertainment whatsoever to it's customers. They won't last very long.

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