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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:34 am 
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It would seem that maybe direct payments might come to pass, at least in the form of one time payments. Biden is in a good position Since Trump has also supported $2,000.00 checks. Last night Joe submitted his new 1.9 trillion dollar stimulus package, I think it will pass, but the Democrats are going to have to be tough to get it through. Some have floated the idea that at least for the people most in need, direct payments might continue on a monthly basis during the duration of the pandemic. Andrew Yang is floating a $2,000.00 a year UBI for 500,000 citizens in New York City. Little by little I think UBI will become a reality in this country.


Last edited by The Lone Ranger on Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:01 am 
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Something I just found out is if every family in this country had an equal share of the wealth, the median average income would be 140,000.00 a year, and all families would have a net worth of $800,000.00.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:40 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Something I just found out is if every family in this country had an equal share of the wealth, the median average income would be 140,000.00 a year, and all families would have a net worth of $800,000.00.


There ya go again,,, thinking like a socialist.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:42 am 
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LoneRanger, you seem to have more wealth than I do,,, so what do ya say, I come to your house and anything I see that I feel I "deserve", I will just take it, no questions asked. After all, it's about the "haves" and "have nots", right?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:47 am 
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mrscott wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
Something I just found out is if every family in this country had an equal share of the wealth, the median average income would be 140,000.00 a year, and all families would have a net worth of $800,000.00.


There ya go again,,, thinking like a socialist.



Thinking like a person who wants social justice there is a difference. At least if there was a fairer distribution of wealth, we wouldn't have a few rich individuals able to buy our government. They increase their wealth not by innovation but rather by buying votes in the legislature.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:52 am 
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mrscott wrote:
LoneRanger, you seem to have more wealth than I do,,, so what do ya say, I come to your house and anything I see that I feel I "deserve", I will just take it, no questions asked. After all, it's about the "haves" and "have nots", right?



I have no problem with paying my fair share of taxes. If I do have more it is in my self interest to make sure the playing field is level. Those insurrectionists at the capitol are the angry white voters who feel they have been left behind, along with BLM represent the under class of this country, that both feel they have been betrayed by the system. Wouldn't it be better to deal with their complaints rather than ignore them? According to Biden his tax increases will not touch anyone that isn't making over $400,000.00 a year. Tell me mrscott do you know anyone making $400,000.00 a year personally, I don't? If we don't deal with the problems of the poor, then we are setting ourselves up for more civil unrest in the future.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:05 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
mrscott wrote:
LoneRanger, you seem to have more wealth than I do,,, so what do ya say, I come to your house and anything I see that I feel I "deserve", I will just take it, no questions asked. After all, it's about the "haves" and "have nots", right?



I have no problem with paying my fair share of taxes. If I do have more it is in my self interest to make sure the playing field is level. Those insurrectionists at the capitol are the angry white voters who feel they have been left behind, along with BLM represent the under class of this country, that both feel they have been betrayed by the system. Wouldn't it be better to deal with their complaints rather than ignore them? According to Biden his tax increases will not touch anyone that isn't making over $400,000.00 a year. Tell me mrscott do you know anyone making $400,000.00 a year personally, I don't? If we don't deal with the problems of the poor, then we are setting ourselves up for more civil unrest in the future.


Nice deflection buddy


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:14 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
mrscott wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
Something I just found out is if every family in this country had an equal share of the wealth, the median average income would be 140,000.00 a year, and all families would have a net worth of $800,000.00.


There ya go again,,, thinking like a socialist.



Thinking like a person who wants social justice there is a difference. At least if there was a fairer distribution of wealth, we wouldn't have a few rich individuals able to buy our government. They increase their wealth not by innovation but rather by buying votes in the legislature.


I won't argue that there is a huge division between the rich and the less fortunate. And I also won't argue that there is a better way. But to level the playing field, you cannot take from those who worked hard to get what they have, only to give it away to those who will not work for what they are given, is ludicrous. I will also agree that those rich individuals who buy our government officials off in order to gain favor when it comes time to consider house bills or resolutions, needs to come to an end. Term limits and full disclosure for ALL elected people and their finances will mostly fix that problem. It won't cure it, but it will certainly slow it to a lesser impact on society. We have gotten exactly who we have voted into office, and reap exactly what we have allowed.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:33 am 
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mrscott wrote:

I won't argue that there is a huge division between the rich and the less fortunate. And I also won't argue that there is a better way. But to level the playing field, you cannot take from those who worked hard to get what they have, only to give it away to those who will not work for what they are given, is ludicrous. I will also agree that those rich individuals who buy our government officials off in order to gain favor when it comes time to consider house bills or resolutions. Term limits and full disclosure for ALL elected people and their finances will mostly fix that problem. It won't cure it, but it will certainly slow it to a lesser impact on society. We have gotten exactly who we have voted into office, and reap exactly what we have allowed.



I am not advocating a complete leveling of the playing field. What I am saying is if you grind large segments of your population into poverty and despair, the net result of all of that is political violence, we are seeing now from both the right and left. Being a person of property I am very interested in taking a hands on approach to fixing this country's problems. Since I have skin in the game and could end up losing what I have, if I don't think about the plight of others. One of the founding principles of our founding was the protection of property. You see when we don't have social justice, we have acts of vandalism like the storming of the Capitol last week.

Unless we address these inequities we will face further unrest in the future.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:50 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
mrscott wrote:

I won't argue that there is a huge division between the rich and the less fortunate. And I also won't argue that there is a better way. But to level the playing field, you cannot take from those who worked hard to get what they have, only to give it away to those who will not work for what they are given, is ludicrous. I will also agree that those rich individuals who buy our government officials off in order to gain favor when it comes time to consider house bills or resolutions. Term limits and full disclosure for ALL elected people and their finances will mostly fix that problem. It won't cure it, but it will certainly slow it to a lesser impact on society. We have gotten exactly who we have voted into office, and reap exactly what we have allowed.



I am not advocating a complete leveling of the playing field. What I am saying is if you grind large segments of your population into poverty and despair, the net result of all of that is political violence, we are seeing now from both the right and left. Being a person of property I am very interested in taking a hands on approach to fixing this country's problems. Since I have skin in the game and could end up losing what I have, if I don't think about the plight of others. One of the founding principles of our founding was the protection of property. You see when we don't have social justice, we have acts of vandalism like the storming of the Capitol last week.

Unless we address these inequities we will face further unrest in the future.


Trust me, it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Until the elected people figure out they are causing a lot of turmoil, it won't get any better.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:11 am 
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mrscott wrote:

Trust me, it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Until the elected people figure out they are causing a lot of turmoil, it won't get any better.



You can also trust the fact that you have to throw the dog a bone once in awhile. Otherwise they will follow the first master who feeds them.

Just for the sake of argument let's say we were to give everyone over 18 UBI in the amount of $2,000.00 a month. For a couple that would be $48,000 a year that would keep them and their family from falling into poverty, and would cushion the rest of us from the booms and busts, of market cycles. That is a long way from $140,000.00 a year, and no $800,000.00 net capital worth. That would still leave vast amounts of wealth in the system. We could pass like Biden wants a 15.00 an hour minimum wage, because humans by nature would want more, and be willing to work for it. It seems it would be solving a lot of financial problems for those in society that need help the most. In addition we could cut back on the 100's of billions of dollars that go into standard welfare programs, through the process of direct payments, which both parties to varying degrees seem to support.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:24 pm 
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I lived on an Indian reservation for a few years and found out a lot about human nature. The more you give someone who wont work for it, will make them just waste what is given them and just ask for more handouts. It really goes back to the old adage "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. But teach him how to fish and he will eat for a lifetime". In your suggestion of giving everyone $2000 per month, that is more than a lot of people earn on their own. You cannot solve the world's problems by taking from those who work for everything they have and giving it to those who wont work for themselves.

I know the number you came up with is just a suggestion, and it's probably based on the stimulus talk, but you do realize that means every single man, woman and child in this country would have to put about $24,000 per year into the system.. And that is to just break even on your UBI plan. That's just not realistic at all.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:35 pm 
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mrscott wrote:
I lived on an Indian reservation for a few years and found out a lot about human nature. The more you give someone who wont work for it, will make them just waste what is given them and just ask for more handouts. It really goes back to the old adage "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. But teach him how to fish and he will eat for a lifetime". In your suggestion of giving everyone $2000 per month, that is more than a lot of people earn on their own. You cannot solve the world's problems by taking from those who work for everything they have and giving it to those who wont work for themselves.

I know the number you came up with is just a suggestion, and it's probably based on the stimulus talk, but you do realize that means every single man, woman and child in this country would have to put about $24,000 per year into the system.. And that is to just break even on your UBI plan. That's just not realistic at all.



Given the wealth of this country it is more realistic than the current borrowing, and adding to the National Debt to pay for the current direct payments. True it would cost 4 Trillion Dollars to prime the UBI pump, but by tying it to a VAT after the first year it would be self funding. For every dollar spent on UBI it would generate 3 dollars in GDP growth. So the 4 Trillion would add 12 Trillion to the economic growth overall. You must remember that so far we have spent nearly 13 Trillion Dollars in stimulus. 4 Trillion of the number through the FED was directly pumped into the market to keep stock prices high. That is money that was not voted on, and which all of us tax payers are on the hook for. So what we are saying is we will spend any amount of money to keep the market going, but not to help average citizens.

What is the cost if we don't start trying to address the problems of wealth inequity?


Last edited by The Lone Ranger on Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:47 pm 
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Theres the difference between you and I. I believe in less government control and spending and it appears you want citizens to become dependent on government programs and subsidies. To be honest, I get very angry when I see government waste and overspending. Whenever I see a road crew working on a road that needs no work or maintenance, I want to scream. This is no different.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:53 am 
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mrscott wrote:

But to level the playing field, you cannot take from those who worked hard to get what they have, only to give it away to those who will not work for what they are given, is ludicrous.

but they have "worked hard" for what they have gotten, it's their right.
granted, the people who "have not" are the ones who did the work for them and get paid pennies for it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:58 am 
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mrscott wrote:
Theres the difference between you and I. I believe in less government control and spending and it appears you want citizens to become dependent on government programs and subsidies. To be honest, I get very angry when I see government waste and overspending. Whenever I see a road crew working on a road that needs no work or maintenance, I want to scream. This is no different.



Is it really dependency? Right now for years we have spent Trillions of dollars on welfare programs that do exactly what you say, make people dependent on those programs. If they go back to work and earn money their benefits are cut, thus making it almost impossible to break out of the system. We have created large government agencies to administer these programs, thus creating the big government you are railing against.

Why is is most of us don't follow our dreams? Could it be that we are forced to take jobs to feed ourselves and our families, locking whole generations into a modern version of serfdom? Direct payments and expanded unemployment benefits have helped people break for a short time the economic chains that bind them. Most political hacks are scared to death, people will come to see these payments can help them improve their lives, and those of their children.

We spend almost a Trillion Dollars a year just on the military. We do this and we don't ever blink an eye. Yet when money is suggested to improve the lot of the citizens that support the military, we can't afford it. It is just a matter of priorities, you can't have a strong military, if you don't have a strong economy. A strong economy is not built from the top down, but rather from the bottom up. All of the social unrest on the left and the right show that it is time to get back to basics, and put power back into the hands of the people. Direct payments appeal to both parties, since the money is going directly into the hands of those that need it most. It is spent and helps grow our economy. The mistake is in making it one time payments, and not spending the money, to make it ongoing, and self funding.

P.S. Haven't business's and farms become dependent on programs and subsidies, don't we give out Trillions in corporate welfare? No body seems to have a problem with that, or is it because they all give to political hacks?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:28 am 
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mrscott wrote:
Theres the difference between you and I. I believe in less government control and spending and it appears you want citizens to become dependent on government programs and subsidies. To be honest, I get very angry when I see government waste and overspending. Whenever I see a road crew working on a road that needs no work or maintenance, I want to scream. This is no different.

I am on ssdi right now. I would love to go back to work but I can't do it because the limit of going back to work won't pay my bills. Karaoke won't pay my bills thanks to pirates and oversaturation of host not to mention cheap bar owners. One off private parties are reliable enough to be considered. My learning disability won't let me go back to school and the most that I might be qualified for is a greeter at BJs, Costco, Sam's Club or Walmart.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:22 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
mrscott wrote:
Theres the difference between you and I. I believe in less government control and spending and it appears you want citizens to become dependent on government programs and subsidies. To be honest, I get very angry when I see government waste and overspending. Whenever I see a road crew working on a road that needs no work or maintenance, I want to scream. This is no different.

I am on ssdi right now. I would love to go back to work but I can't do it because the limit of going back to work won't pay my bills. Karaoke won't pay my bills thanks to pirates and oversaturation of host not to mention cheap bar owners. One off private parties are reliable enough to be considered. My learning disability won't let me go back to school and the most that I might be qualified for is a greeter at BJs, Costco, Sam's Club or Walmart.


Not meaning to be rude Danny,,, but all I hear are excuses. If a person who truly wants to work,, they can find work. Get creative and don't limit yourself. I know that is easy to say, but it really is that simple. We all have heard stories of people overcoming disabilities and thriving... Honestly and sincerely I wish you success.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:51 am 
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mrscott wrote:

Not meaning to be rude Danny,,, but all I hear are excuses. If a person who truly wants to work,, they can find work. Get creative and don't limit yourself. I know that is easy to say, but it really is that simple. We all have heard stories of people overcoming disabilities and thriving... Honestly and sincerely I wish you success.



Not meaning to be rude mrscott, but it is easy to tell somebody to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. What if your boots have no straps? Sure a person can get work, but is it the type of work they really want to do? Simply telling someone to go out and be successful is not enough. Most of us could go out and work in the fields of a farm, and pick fruit, most Americans won't. Farm labor has to be imported, and that is the main reason we have an immigration problem. Many job require a degree or a certificate today, how does anyone afford to get the education or training they need? Most have to go into debt for their certifications and end up owing $100,000.00 or more in student debt. Even after they get their precious piece of paper, some cannot find work in their field of expertise, then come home and live with Mom and Dad.

Yes it is very easy to wave a magic wand and say get a job. The problem is with an ever increasing global economy good jobs are scarce, and more applicants are fighting over the few jobs there are. Is it really the fault of the individual, or is the system really not working for them, like so many on the left and right believe today?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:04 am 
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Having a degree or a certificate is nice and all,,, but honestly they are not truly necessary. If you are going into a professional field, then yes they are needed. But take me for example. I have a genius IQ, yet I only have a high school diploma, no extra schooling. Yet where I currently work I am one of the highest paid employees. And almost none of the positions where I work actually require a degree. Is that unusual? Not really. It's all in what a person will accept and work towards.


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