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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:22 am 
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So when do we start sending checks to every human on the planet that has a lower income than we do in the US? Isn't it a huge hardship to expect them to cross our border to receive those benefits.

After all, women and children get abused on the long trek here. Let's stop the abuse. It is always stated that it is easier to solve a countries problems in the country where the problems are. We can't continue to import every body, and while we are at it, let's just make them all citizens too.

Problem solved. When will they get their first check?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:49 am 
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mrmarog wrote:
So when do we start sending checks to every human on the planet that has a lower income than we do in the US? Isn't it a huge hardship to expect them to cross our border to receive those benefits.

After all, women and children get abused on the long trek here. Let's stop the abuse. It is always stated that it is easier to solve a countries problems in the country where the problems are. We can't continue to import every body, and while we are at it, let's just make them all citizens too.

Problem solved. When will they get their first check?


I thought the American Way was to export our society to everyone else? That we wanted a Mickey D, and KFC on every street in the world we can find? If we are going to export our products and our culture, we should make sure they are top rate. Women and children don't have to go on a trek to get abused, they are trying to escape abuse. The problem would be solved if we just did two things, try and improve living conditions the poor are fleeing, and crack down on employers hiring undocumented workers. Dry up the jobs and get rid of the dictators, and things would go back to normal eventually.

You better hope they all become tax paying citizens, other wise who is going to pay into Medicare and Social Security?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:07 pm 
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You mean like the tax paying citizens receiving UBI?

(in quiet whispering voice) You are totally out of touch with reality.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 5:15 pm 
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mrmarog wrote:
You mean like the tax paying citizens receiving UBI?

(in quiet whispering voice) You are totally out of touch with reality.


(in quiet whispering voice) UBI would be funded by everyone paying a VAT, so consumers would be paying for the money they are putting back into the economy. The VAT would fall heaviest on those who do spend money, and buying stimulates the economy, providing jobs. I am out of touch? At least I know how Medicare and Social Security are funded, you thought it was a private account.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:34 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
mrmarog wrote:
You mean like the tax paying citizens receiving UBI?

(in quiet whispering voice) You are totally out of touch with reality.


(in quiet whispering voice) UBI would be funded by everyone paying a VAT, so consumers would be paying for the money they are putting back into the economy. The VAT would fall heaviest on those who do spend money, and buying stimulates the economy, providing jobs. I am out of touch? At least I know how Medicare and Social Security are funded, you thought it was a private account.

You think I don't know how medicare and SS is funded is laughable. What also is laughable, is your willingness to give EVERYONE money we don't have. It is speculated that by 2050 we have 200 trillion in unfunded debt. Greece will look like they had no problem at all.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:27 am 
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mrmarog wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
mrmarog wrote:
You mean like the tax paying citizens receiving UBI?

(in quiet whispering voice) You are totally out of touch with reality.


(in quiet whispering voice) UBI would be funded by everyone paying a VAT, so consumers would be paying for the money they are putting back into the economy. The VAT would fall heaviest on those who do spend money, and buying stimulates the economy, providing jobs. I am out of touch? At least I know how Medicare and Social Security are funded, you thought it was a private account.

You think I don't know how medicare and SS is funded is laughable. What also is laughable, is your willingness to give EVERYONE money we don't have. It is speculated that by 2050 we have 200 trillion in unfunded debt. Greece will look like they had no problem at all.


I haven't been the only one giving away money, and not raising taxes to cover expenses. There was a time before Ronald Reagan when a 56 billion dollar deficit was considered outrageous. At that time we were the largest creditor nation in the world, today we are the largest debtor. During Reagan's watch the wall came down, but that was only because we spent trillions on defense, the first one trillion dollar deficit was during Reagan's presidency, also the second. George Bush I added another trillion, then Clinton came in and we had not only balanced our accounts, we were actually paying down the deficit, the only time in recent history. So who again is the party of financial responsibility?

Per capita the largest deficit for a country is not Greece, but rather Japan. Does that mean Japan is in worse shape than Greece? I won't be here in 2050 unless I live to be 100 and more. It also depends mrmarog what we spend the money on. If we spend it just to make a few richer,such as defense contractors, what's the point? Why not spend it on something that is really going to grow GDP. As long as we are investing in people, making their lives better, raising their education and training levels, invest in hard infrastructure, then we are moving towards 2050 in a positive way.

P.S. If you know how Social Security works and is funded that is great. Then you have to admit the money you paid in went to pay benefits for then current retirees. Just like the money paid into today pays your benefits, there is no individual account.

Oh just for the record The Federal Reserve just printed 4 trillion dollars and bailed out Wall Street when the market was tanking, during the first part of the pandemic. 4 trillion without any vote by Congress or overseeing of any kind, all of us are on the hook for that. 4 trillion dollars is what it would take to start UBI, then it would be self funded through VAT. Same amount of money one to help a few, the other to help many. It just depends on where your priorities are.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:17 am 
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So the next generation people paying into SS and medicare will be paying out of money they received (UBI) from the gov't that the gov't had to borrow. Seems like really great plan :idea: :idea: :idea:

Now if only the gov't could take over the companies and their profits...... there is a word for that that starts with an "F" and doesn't end with a "k", although that is what we would be if the first "F" word happened to us.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:11 am 
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mrmarog wrote:
So the next generation people paying into SS and medicare will be paying out of money they received (UBI) from the gov't that the gov't had to borrow. Seems like really great plan :idea: :idea: :idea:

Now if only the gov't could take over the companies and their profits...... there is a word for that that starts with an "F" and doesn't end with a "k", although that is what we would be if the first "F" word happened to us.



So The Federal Reserve prints up 4 trillion dollars to just give to Wall Street no strings attached, and nobody on the right blinks an eye? That money is used to keep stock prices high, and benefits all those who own stocks. What about the vast majority of us that own no stocks? Why should we be on the hook for hedge fund managers? Really the next generation will be paying into SS and Medicare just like they always have unless of course we declare Medicare for all, or some other Universal Health Plan that covers everyone. The stock market just like defense spending, is money that is spent with the idea of supply side economics, trickling down to the masses. That is a failed system of economics, because the rich don't invest in this country, they move their money to off shore accounts.

Far better to start UBI that was originally a Republican idea started by Richard Nixon, at least like SS and Medicare it is a program designed to pull many out of poverty, and reduce the cycles of boom and bust in our economy. It would be a separate program funded by it's own special tax.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:17 am 
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LR, so it is perfectly OK to endlessly spend money we don't have, because you'll be dead long before the 200 trillion unfunded debt becomes reality.

"Let the young whipper snappers worry about it" Us privileged will be long out of money and or dead.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:37 am 
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mrmarog wrote:
LR, so it is perfectly OK to endlessly spend money we don't have, because you'll be dead long before the 200 trillion unfunded debt becomes reality.

"Let the young whipper snappers worry about it" Us privileged will be long out of money and or dead.


Let's get real we are spending the money anyway. We are spending it on defense mostly, and we can't even be protected from cyber attacks, so what good is all of our military hardware doing? We can be black mailed, have our supply chains disrupted, so are we really safe? Also large corporations have armies of lobbyists that make sure they don't pay any taxes to support this country, where they are making their fortunes. They are reaping the benefits of all of their government paid subsidies aka socialism. Isn't that what current lawmakers are doing putting all of this debt on the backs of future generations?

All I'm saying is we have been trying since the days of Reagan to make supply side trickle down economics work. Isn't it time we tried something else, building the economy from the base up, rather than let things trickle down aka a golden shower on the rest of us, from those on top. The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing, and hope for a different outcome. If we invest in programs that will grow GDP all will benefit not just a few.

P.S. I was under the impression that you are one of the privileged who are enjoying the good times now.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:21 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
P.S. I was under the impression that you are one of the privileged who are enjoying the good times now.

I am enjoying the good times, thanks to Governors such as Desantis. I am also enjoying it because I worked hard and long hours to earn it. Have you ever sand blasted a frame with a full hood and suit in 90+ degree weather. Used a grinder on fiberglass and go home itching for hours? Paint a car in a down draft spray booth with a gas heater. Straighten a bent up frame rail with heat and a hammer? Cut off suspension parts and have the hot balls of molten metal drop in your shoe. Hit yourself in the hand because your hammer missed hitting the chisel perfectly?

Well I did that and a lot, lot more for nearly 25 years. Why? because hard skilled labor can earn a lot of money. I would have never retired at 60 as an engineer. In doing what I did I brought along with me several dozen other workers that enjoyed a very nice living as well.

Privileged...... damn right I was. Privileged to have the health and strength to work as hard as I did. Privileged to be able to get a college degree because I was a good gymnast. Privileged because I met a wonderful woman that too, had worked hard to make a living, and retire young.

We did all that because we live in the greatest country the world has ever known...... until now.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:47 am 
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mrmarog wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
P.S. I was under the impression that you are one of the privileged who are enjoying the good times now.

I am enjoying the good times, thanks to Governors such as Desantis. I am also enjoying it because I worked hard and long hours to earn it. Have you ever sand blasted a frame with a full hood and suit in 90+ degree weather. Used a grinder on fiberglass and go home itching for hours? Paint a car in a down draft spray booth with a gas heater. Straighten a bent up frame rail with heat and a hammer? Cut off suspension parts and have the hot balls of molten metal drop in your shoe. Hit yourself in the hand because your hammer missed hitting the chisel perfectly?

Well I did that and a lot, lot more for nearly 25 years. Why? because hard skilled labor can earn a lot of money. I would have never retired at 60 as an engineer. In doing what I did I brought along with me several dozen other workers that enjoyed a very nice living as well.

Privileged...... damn right I was. Privileged to have the health and strength to work as hard as I did. Privileged to be able to get a college degree because I was a good gymnast. Privileged because I met a wonderful woman that too, had worked hard to make a living, and retire young.

We did all that because we live in the greatest country the world has ever known...... until now.


Times they are changing you and I both prospered because of the generations that came before us. That was a different time and a different world. It was a time when companies and their CEO's believed in giving back to the communities they operated in, that mind set is gone, and was replaced by the cult of Greed Is Good, and Supply Side/ Trickle Down Economics. Since the 1970's there has been an assault on progress that workers made during the Great Depression. Today workers mostly don't have the protection of unions, or responsible companies that used to look out for their workers. These workers are exploited and will continue to be unless Government steps in and once again restores order to the system. How do you define a great country? Is it the wealth or strength of a society that determines if it is the greatest? I would like to think like Teddy R. "That a great society is determined by how well it treats the least of it's citizens". You know you are great when other nations want to copy your system, seems like more and more the China model seems to be winning. We came very close to a dictatorship of the right on Jan 6th.

P.S. Just for the record I retired from my day job at 58 with 41 years of government service.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:32 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
We came very close to a dictatorship of the right on Jan 6th.


1954 Shooting in the House Chamber
On March 1, 1954, while Members gathered on the House Floor for an upcoming vote, three men and one woman entered the visitor’s gallery above the chamber and quietly took their seats. All four belonged to the Puerto Rican Nationalist Party and only hours earlier had traveled from New York City to Washington, DC.

The United States had annexed Puerto Rico in 1898, and the island’s relationship with the federal government had long been a point of contention. Some Puerto Ricans sought to maintain their relationship with the mainland, and others, like the four visitors in the House that day, argued for an independent Puerto Rico.

The Capitol had few security protocols at the time, and the four Puerto Rican nationalists entered the gallery armed with handguns. Around 2:30 p.m. they indiscriminately opened fire onto the House Floor and unfurled a Puerto Rican flag in a violent act of protest meant to draw attention to their demand for Puerto Rico’s immediate independence.

Five Congressmen were wounded in the shooting.

Members, House Pages, and police officers quickly helped detain three of the assailants outside the gallery, while the fourth escaped the Capitol and was apprehended later that afternoon.


Why does this never get talked about? This was way closer than Jan 6


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:58 am 
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mrmarog wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
We came very close to a dictatorship of the right on Jan 6th.


1954 Shooting in the House Chamber
On March 1, 1954, while Members gathered on the House Floor for an upcoming vote, three men and one woman entered the visitor’s gallery above the chamber and quietly took their seats. All four belonged to the Puerto Rican Nationalist Party and only hours earlier had traveled from New York City to Washington, DC.

The United States had annexed Puerto Rico in 1898, and the island’s relationship with the federal government had long been a point of contention. Some Puerto Ricans sought to maintain their relationship with the mainland, and others, like the four visitors in the House that day, argued for an independent Puerto Rico.

The Capitol had few security protocols at the time, and the four Puerto Rican nationalists entered the gallery armed with handguns. Around 2:30 p.m. they indiscriminately opened fire onto the House Floor and unfurled a Puerto Rican flag in a violent act of protest meant to draw attention to their demand for Puerto Rico’s immediate independence.

Five Congressmen were wounded in the shooting.

Members, House Pages, and police officers quickly helped detain three of the assailants outside the gallery, while the fourth escaped the Capitol and was apprehended later that afternoon.


Why does this never get talked about? This was way closer than Jan 6


Thank you for sharing I never knew this... I hoped they up security at that point... I'm guessing it doesn't get talked about is it wasn't the current President of the United States who by his own staff (Chris Miller) admission said it was his bosses speech that riled the gang to try to overthrow an election. IMHO I guess that's a alot worse than Puerto Rican Nationalist shooting 5 Congressmen... But it does need to be mentioned imho but not in the same breath as what happened on January 6. It is beyond me how anyone can support DT after what he did or failed to stop!!! The Extreme Right can Twist and turn all they want but imho it was pretty low.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:26 am 
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sanj wrote:
mrmarog wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
We came very close to a dictatorship of the right on Jan 6th.


1954 Shooting in the House Chamber
On March 1, 1954, while Members gathered on the House Floor for an upcoming vote, three men and one woman entered the visitor’s gallery above the chamber and quietly took their seats. All four belonged to the Puerto Rican Nationalist Party and only hours earlier had traveled from New York City to Washington, DC.

The United States had annexed Puerto Rico in 1898, and the island’s relationship with the federal government had long been a point of contention. Some Puerto Ricans sought to maintain their relationship with the mainland, and others, like the four visitors in the House that day, argued for an independent Puerto Rico.

The Capitol had few security protocols at the time, and the four Puerto Rican nationalists entered the gallery armed with handguns. Around 2:30 p.m. they indiscriminately opened fire onto the House Floor and unfurled a Puerto Rican flag in a violent act of protest meant to draw attention to their demand for Puerto Rico’s immediate independence.

Five Congressmen were wounded in the shooting.

Members, House Pages, and police officers quickly helped detain three of the assailants outside the gallery, while the fourth escaped the Capitol and was apprehended later that afternoon.


Why does this never get talked about? This was way closer than Jan 6


Thank you for sharing I never knew this... I hoped they up security at that point... I'm guessing it doesn't get talked about is it wasn't the current President of the United States who by his own staff (Chris Miller) admission said it was his bosses speech that riled the gang to try to overthrow an election. IMHO I guess that's a alot worse than Puerto Rican Nationalist shooting 5 Congressmen... But it does need to be mentioned imho but not in the same breath as what happened on January 6. It is beyond me how anyone can support DT after what he did or failed to stop!!! The Extreme Right can Twist and turn all they want but imho it was pretty low.

So it's not really that big of deal as long as DT wasn't president? You know, only a few reps were shot, and they only had a few guns, and they hung a Puerto Rico flag up.

And how many gawkers/window breakers (insurgents) had guns..... ZERO
And how many politicians were shot..... ZERO


Last edited by mrmarog on Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:33 am 
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mrmarog wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
We came very close to a dictatorship of the right on Jan 6th.


1954 Shooting in the House Chamber
On March 1, 1954, while Members gathered on the House Floor for an upcoming vote, three men and one woman entered the visitor’s gallery above the chamber and quietly took their seats. All four belonged to the Puerto Rican Nationalist Party and only hours earlier had traveled from New York City to Washington, DC.

The United States had annexed Puerto Rico in 1898, and the island’s relationship with the federal government had long been a point of contention. Some Puerto Ricans sought to maintain their relationship with the mainland, and others, like the four visitors in the House that day, argued for an independent Puerto Rico.

The Capitol had few security protocols at the time, and the four Puerto Rican nationalists entered the gallery armed with handguns. Around 2:30 p.m. they indiscriminately opened fire onto the House Floor and unfurled a Puerto Rican flag in a violent act of protest meant to draw attention to their demand for Puerto Rico’s immediate independence.

Five Congressmen were wounded in the shooting.

Members, House Pages, and police officers quickly helped detain three of the assailants outside the gallery, while the fourth escaped the Capitol and was apprehended later that afternoon.


Why does this never get talked about? This was way closer than Jan 6


Seriously you are going to equate four PR terrorists with the thousands of domestic terrorists who can be described as Fascists or worse. Five Congressman were wounded aka injured, what about the hundreds of injured and some even killed on both sides? The PR terrorists wanted independence. The domestic terrorists of Jan 6th were trying to overthrow the legally elected government of this country. I don't think there is any comparison at all. Especially as you point out security was not as tight in March of 1954, this second Domestic terrorist attack aka insurrection, was far more serious, since capitol police needed help in restoring order.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:40 am 
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mrmarog wrote:
So it's not really that big of deal as long as DT wasn't president? You know, only a few reps were shot, and they only had a few guns, and they hung a Puerto Rico flag up.



It was a big deal at the time I suppose, but compared what has happened in the last four years, it was a small isolated case. We still have a large group or groups I should say of home grown terrorists, armed to the teeth, organized, dangerous, and a greater threat than a few PR nut jobs. So they hung the PR flag, how many times did the Japanese tear down "Old Glory", and hoist "The Rising Sun", during WWII?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:55 am 
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mrmarog wrote:

And how many gawkers/window breakers (insurgents) had guns..... ZERO
And how many politicians were shot..... ZERO



You know that for a fact that none of insurrectionists had guns? You don't know that since there were all kinds of packs, backpacks, para military uniforms. No politicians were shot because the idea was to handcuff them with plastic, try them, and hang them at the gallows out front of the Capitol. I saw in the video quite a few other things used as weapons, and I sure wouldn't have wanted to be the officer trapped between the doors, having the life wrung out of him. I would have to say that there is a chance that handguns at least were inside, who ever heard of a revolution without guns?


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Why hasn't any of the 14000 hours of surveillance video been released. It is because it would show that 99% of all the 800, orso that entered the building, did nothing wrong. Most even stayed within the guide ropes. The video would show that it was far from a takeover attempt.

Do you really think that Ashli Babbitt deserved to die? Provide me with details about the others that you think died that day.

U.S. Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick, who engaged with pro-Trump rioters during the Jan. 6 insurrection, died of natural causes the day after the attack, Washington, D.C.'s chief medical examiner announced Monday.

Sicknick died after suffering strokes, the Office of Chief Medical Examiner, Dr. Francisco Diaz, said in a report. In an interview, Diaz told The Washington Post, which first reported on the determination, that Sicknick suffered two strokes.

Sicknick, 42, was sprayed with a chemical substance outside the Capitol at around 2:20 p.m. ET on Jan. 6, the report said.

He did not suffer an allergic reaction to the chemical irritants dispensed by rioters, Diaz told the Post, nor was there evidence of internal or external injuries.


Dr. Francisco Diaz, the district's chief medical examiner, announced the causes of deaths as:

• Ashli Babbitt, 35, died by homicide from a gunshot to the left shoulder. She was shot by a Capitol police officer while trying to climb through a door near the House chamber.

• Kevin Greeson, 55, died of natural causes from cardiovascular disease. Greeson, of Athens, Alabama, had a Twitter account in which he supported former President Donald Trump and profanely denounced his opponents.

• Benjamin Phillips, 50, died of natural causes from cardiovascular disease. According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, Phillips of Ringtown, Pennsylvania, was a computer programmer who founded a social media website for Trump supporters. He had organized a trip of several dozen people to the district.

• Roseanne Boyland, 34, died by accident from acute amphetamine intoxication. Boyland, of Georgia, wanted to be a sobriety counselor and followed QAnon conspiracies, her family said.

This is the story of the others you say died:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 128040002/

You Dems can really spin some tall tales.

BTW All that died, except SICKNICK, were loyal Trump supporters so you probably think they all should have been hung any way. The way Dems think: For the dead Jan 6 Trump lovers, justice was swift and deserved.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:39 am 
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mrmarog wrote:
Why hasn't any of the 14000 hours of surveillance video been released. It is because it would show that 99% of all the 800, orso that entered the building, did nothing wrong. Most even stayed within the guide ropes. The video would show that it was far from a takeover attempt.

Do you really think that Ashli Babbitt deserved to die? Provide me with details about the others that you think died that day.

U.S. Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick, who engaged with pro-Trump rioters during the Jan. 6 insurrection, died of natural causes the day after the attack, Washington, D.C.'s chief medical examiner announced Monday.

Sicknick died after suffering strokes, the Office of Chief Medical Examiner, Dr. Francisco Diaz, said in a report. In an interview, Diaz told The Washington Post, which first reported on the determination, that Sicknick suffered two strokes.

Sicknick, 42, was sprayed with a chemical substance outside the Capitol at around 2:20 p.m. ET on Jan. 6, the report said.

He did not suffer an allergic reaction to the chemical irritants dispensed by rioters, Diaz told the Post, nor was there evidence of internal or external injuries.


Dr. Francisco Diaz, the district's chief medical examiner, announced the causes of deaths as:

• Ashli Babbitt, 35, died by homicide from a gunshot to the left shoulder. She was shot by a Capitol police officer while trying to climb through a door near the House chamber.

• Kevin Greeson, 55, died of natural causes from cardiovascular disease. Greeson, of Athens, Alabama, had a Twitter account in which he supported former President Donald Trump and profanely denounced his opponents.

• Benjamin Phillips, 50, died of natural causes from cardiovascular disease. According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, Phillips of Ringtown, Pennsylvania, was a computer programmer who founded a social media website for Trump supporters. He had organized a trip of several dozen people to the district.

• Roseanne Boyland, 34, died by accident from acute amphetamine intoxication. Boyland, of Georgia, wanted to be a sobriety counselor and followed QAnon conspiracies, her family said.

This is the story of the others you say died:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 128040002/

You Dems can really spin some tall tales.

BTW All that died, except SICKNICK, were loyal Trump supporters so you probably think they all should have been hung any way.



You have answered your own question Yes Jan 6th was a bigger deal than the March 1st terrorist incident. Look at the hundreds of insurrectionists that have been charged with crimes by the FBI. Just remember that those loyal Trump supporters felt he wanted them to go down the street, he was going to lead them, then ducked out, like the chicken hawk he is. Loyalty to Trump is a one way street, if things turn, he is going to maintain with a straight face, "I never told them to do that". In the case of Mike Pence I can't believe he is trying to walk back Jan 6th. He was the one that almost got hung by the crowd, it was a near run thing. I guess Pence is going to build his gallows high, and give them another chance.

If the Republicans really want to watch all of the tapes and look into the facts, they should have voted for the bipartisan commission, to look into all aspects of the insurrection of Jan 6th.

P.S. The police officer that died of a stroke, that wasn't because of the stress placed on him by the insurrectionists, with all of the physical activity going on around him. None of that contributed to his death, really?


Last edited by The Lone Ranger on Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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