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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:53 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
:!: This really bothers you doesn't it? It is rather a minor point, is it more important the content of what I have been writing?


If you're not competent enough to use the accepted norms of communication, it kind of takes away from your credibility. If the ten commandments were written on a party balloon, I doubt people would have taken them seriously either. Your continued use tells me not to take you seriously. Message received.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:18 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Some help is on the way Alan! The state of Florida's Governor has just closed all of the bars and clubs state wide. The Governor of Texas stated if he had any thing to do over, it would be the opening of bars, and is looking at shutting them down state wide.

The problem is, the piecemeal approach, as we have seen doesn't work. You can't have bars that are closed in some states while open in others. It must be across the board in every state. That's the only way it would work.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:16 am 
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Alan B wrote:
The problem is, the piecemeal approach, as we have seen doesn't work. You can't have bars that are closed in some states while open in others.


Why not? If us in Maryland can open bars and still have hospitalizations going down, all while Florida has opposite numbers going in the wrong direction, it certainly makes sense to apply rules as they are needed and where they are needed. If Floridians act like idiots, us Marylanders shouldn't have to pay the price for their stupidity. You act like people are crossing state lines in droves. They're not. There are many states in the south that have dry counties and no alcohol allowed, right next to counties that do. It's been going on for decades and works just fine. I always thought that was the purpose of states. That way, if you don't like the way they think in your state, find a state that fits you and move there. If you think the people running your state are a bunch of idiots, then maybe it's a sign that the citizens of that state are also the same kind of people, and you need to start asking yourself why you're there in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:49 pm 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
Alan B wrote:
The problem is, the piecemeal approach, as we have seen doesn't work. You can't have bars that are closed in some states while open in others.


Why not? If us in Maryland can open bars and still have hospitalizations going down, all while Florida has opposite numbers going in the wrong direction, it certainly makes sense to apply rules as they are needed and where they are needed. If Floridians act like idiots, us Marylanders shouldn't have to pay the price for their stupidity. You act like people are crossing state lines in droves. They're not. There are many states in the south that have dry counties and no alcohol allowed, right next to counties that do. It's been going on for decades and works just fine. I always thought that was the purpose of states. That way, if you don't like the way they think in your state, find a state that fits you and move there. If you think the people running your state are a bunch of idiots, then maybe it's a sign that the citizens of that state are also the same kind of people, and you need to start asking yourself why you're there in the first place.



:?: So what you want is states rights, isn't that what the Civil War was fought over? That the Federal Government doesn't have the right to tell states what to do, even in matters like slavery? You might be right if you had strict border security between each state, you don't. The problems of Texas, Arizona, Florida, might become Maryland's next spike. Stupidity is not limited to one state, to me during this pandemic anyone that goes out to a bar, club or even a restaurant is asking for trouble. So worst case scenario we have to stay at home for 18 months total, that isn't going to kill anyone, going out might, now who is being stupid?


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:31 pm 
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LR, I give up. You win. You're superior intellect can't be matched.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:23 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Alan B wrote:
Here's the deal...

If all states got together and did the following:

• Mandatory lockdown for 2 weeks. Only exception is going food shopping.
• Mandatory masks when food shopping.

Then, the virus would be gone in 2 weeks. But since that's never going to happen, and there is no unity in fighting this, hundreds of thousands more people will die. Remember, right now there is no cure. No treatment and no vaccine.

Look, we all know that we shouldn't be going out socializing during a pandemic... yet, people are doing so anyway. Just like people know that smoking is no good for you and could kill you, but... people do it anyway. And drinking (alcohol) is the worst thing you can do to your body, but... again, people don't care.

We live in a society where people do what they want to do, regardless of the ramifications. Therefore, I have no doubt in my mind that the Corona Virus will become apocalyptical.



:!: Some help is on the way Alan! The state of Florida's Governor has just closed all of the bars and clubs state wide. The Governor of Texas stated if he had any thing to do over, it would be the opening of bars, and is looking at shutting them down state wide. Bars and clubs shutting down will effect the Karaoke hosts that work in them. This is what I meant by legal matters might be moot, that the state and local officials will simply identify dangerous sites as far a being super spreaders, and shut them down, despite what some of the public think. The first duty of government is to protect the public, even despite the fact that some of the public don't want to be protected, the majority do. This reinforces the idea that a public business, cannot pose a menace to the public's health. It might just be that bars and clubs will have to stay shut down for the duration of the pandemic?

Again not true. Just told them that they can't serve alcohol.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:34 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
Again not true. Just told them that they can't serve alcohol.



:roll: Gee Danny I thought the reason people go to a bar is to have a drink, maybe with their friends. It is to socialize and meet people, which is not a good idea at this time, just like karaoke is not a good idea at this time. The sale of alcohol is the primary income engine of a bar, club or restaurant, that is why a liquor license is so important to such a business. Really is there any reason for reopening if you are not going to make a profit, isn't that the whole reason for getting started again?

P.S. Your statement is the one that isn't true, just read an article that all bars and clubs in Florida are closed for the next 30 days.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:00 am 
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Let's get one thing straight, everyone wants to get things back to normal. Really the virus doesn't care much about what we all want, it is going to do it's thing, and that's it. The only way we are going to get back to some form of normal before Fall comes is doing what the EU is doing. The trouble is while they are all working together, our states are not. Some have been working hard like New York to bring things under control, they are just one state. Others have tried to go back too soon, even the Governors of Texas and Florida have told their citizens to start wearing masks. The trouble is masks have now become a political issue rather than a health issue. You see the board meeting in Florida where citizens equated with having to wear a mask, to dictatorship. As one woman put it "things have to breath, that is why I don't wear a mask, or underwear". What can you say to logic like that? When 95% of all of us out here start wearing a mask in public, the virus would be stopped in just a few weeks. It is working in the EU, it could work here. The trouble is you have a group that doesn't think of the majority, just their own little egos. There is no leadership from the top, and the states are not strong enough by themselves to deal with this national health crisis. We have always known that you can't go back to work, until you solve the health part of this problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:51 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Let's get one thing straight, everyone wants to get things back to normal. Really the virus doesn't care much about what we all want, it is going to do it's thing, and that's it. The only way we are going to get back to some form of normal before Fall comes is doing what the EU is doing. The trouble is while they are all working together, our states are not. Some have been working hard like New York to bring things under control, they are just one state. Others have tried to go back too soon, even the Governors of Texas and Florida have told their citizens to start wearing masks. The trouble is masks have now become a political issue rather than a health issue. You see the board meeting in Florida where citizens equated with having to wear a mask, to dictatorship. As one woman put it "things have to breath, that is why I don't wear a mask, or underwear". What can you say to logic like that? When 95% of all of us out here start wearing a mask in public, the virus would be stopped in just a few weeks. It is working in the EU, it could work here. The trouble is you have a group that doesn't think of the majority, just their own little egos. There is no leadership from the top, and the states are not strong enough by themselves to deal with this national health crisis. We have always known that you can't go back to work, until you solve the health part of this problem.

The U.S. is lagging behind every other country who has this thing under control. The reason we never will is because there is no leadership and people don't want to follow the rules. A friend of mine who lives in Spain told me that if you're out in public without a mask, you'll get arrested.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:16 pm 
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The graph attached shows the decrease in deaths in the United States from COVID-19

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... /index.htm

Attachment:
cdc-covid19-200620.jpg
cdc-covid19-200620.jpg [ 396.43 KiB | Viewed 680 times ]


I have been tracking COVID19 from the John Hopkins, CDC, and worldometers websites since mid-March.

The US represents only 4% of the world population. Yet, we have over 25% of worldwide COVID19 deaths!
Meanwhile, India which is over 18% of the world population has 3% of worldwide COVID19 deaths.

Information Gathered from 29 JUN @ 14:00

ORANGE COUNTY
Population: 3.18 Million
Cases: 13,064 (0.411% of OC Pop & 0.033% of CA Pop)
Deaths: 330 (0.010% of OC Pop, 2.526% of Cases & 5.55% of CA Deaths)

LOS ANGELES COUNTY
Population: 10.04 Million
Cases: 97,894 (0.975% of LA Pop & 0.247% of CA Pop)
Deaths: 3,305 (0.033% of LA Pop, 3.376% of Cases & 55.6% of CA Deaths)

CALIFORNIA
Population: 39.56 Million (11.96% of US Population)
Cases: 216,905 (0.548% of CA Pop & 0.065% of US Pop)
Deaths: 5,944 (0.015% of CA Pop, 2.74% of Cases & 4.6% of US Deaths)

United States
Population: 330.8 Million (4.36% of World Population)
Cases: 2.668 Million (0.807% of US Pop)
Deaths: 128,665 (0.039% of Pop, 4.821% of Cases & 25.4% of World Deaths)

Japan: NO LOCKDOWN!
Population: 126.5 Million (1.66% of World Poulation)
Cases: 18,390 (0.015% of Pop)
Deaths: 971 (0.001% of Pop, 5.28% of Cases & 0.19% of World Deaths)

India:
Population: 1.38 Billion (18.16% of World Population)
Cases: 567.5K (0.041% of Pop)
Deaths: 16,904 (0.001% of Pop, 2.978% of Cases & 3.33% of World Deaths)

Worldwide
Population: 7.594 Billion
Cases: 10.37 Million (0.137% of Pop)
Deaths: 506.9K (0.007% of Pop & 4.88% of Cases)

source: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
NOTE: These are not the corrected numbers provided the CDC


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:08 pm 
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The main reason deaths are bending down while the rate of infection continues to increase, is mainly because it is the young who are now being infected. Even though they survive many have permanent scarring of the lung tissue, and will suffer from chronic fatigue syndrome for the rest of their lives. A preexisting condition which will not be covered if Obama care is struck down completely. The old have stayed home and nursing homes are now being tested regularly. Still there is the Fall and Winter coming, and no one knows what will happen by that time, especially if the health care delivery system is overwhelmed this Summer.

P.S. The reason India death rate is so low, is I seem to remember at the start of the pandemic the whole country locked down for more than three weeks. I mean no activity, that is why their polluted air became so clean, and you could finally see the mountains in the distance.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:28 pm 
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I don't want to be the bad guy, but a plain tale is best told plainly, we have not acted united on this virus problem. Our efforts have been piecemeal, state by state, with no central planning or organization. Today California had to lock down 19 counties again, Riverside county where I live is now a hot spot. We have to face the truth, like Dr. Fauci said the other day we are on the road to 100,000 infections a day. Those are just the ones we can confirm, probably the real total is 10 times higher. Those of you that wanted to go back to business as usual, it just isn't going to happen until we have a vaccine. Bars are closing again, my locale Eagles is now closing again for another three weeks. Hosts are going to have to step up to the plate, and do their part to make sure this killer, is not spreading around. That means sitting at home, despite the financial hardship that might cause. It is time to ask ourselves if the current system we have can deal with this crisis?


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:41 am 
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I believe it won't get better until the younger people fix their attitude about this pandemic. On the CBS news the other day a reporter interviewed some young people who were out and about doing their own thing. When asked about social distancing and wearing a mask a young person replied "I'm not afraid of catching the coronavirus." They don't realize the ramification of catching it. On the other hand, a young lady responded with "I live with my mom and I would never be able to forgive myself if I brought it home and my mother caught it and died." This young person is a rare find in a sea of the younger generation. We need more people, especially the younger ones to show the attitude of this young lady!


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:50 pm 
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bazinga wrote:
I believe it won't get better until the younger people fix their attitude about this pandemic. On the CBS news the other day a reporter interviewed some young people who were out and about doing their own thing. When asked about social distancing and wearing a mask a young person replied "I'm not afraid of catching the coronavirus." They don't realize the ramification of catching it. On the other hand, a young lady responded with "I live with my mom and I would never be able to forgive myself if I brought it home and my mother caught it and died." This young person is a rare find in a sea of the younger generation. We need more people, especially the younger ones to show the attitude of this young lady!



Finally the Governor of Texas has issued this afternoon a mandatory mask requirement for the whole state. It's about time, ICU beds are now at over 100% capacity. Things need to change and everyone in Texas stay at home during the 4th of July weekend. A three day shut down would help curb the virus. What we are seeing now is the results of opening everything up around the Memorial Day weekend. If things don't change then all of the news of people going back to work will mean little, consumers will not have the confidence to go back out and support a reopened economy. Just a little note California now has the largest number of new cases, 8,000 in just one day, Texas was right behind with 7,000 a day for the last two days, also Florida is having record numbers.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:46 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
I have come to the conclusion that this virus is not going to stop until it kills us all. And the reason for that is because there is no unity in fighting it. Therefore, there is no reason to stay locked down at home living in fear. That is not living.

So, since it's just a matter of time... we might as well enjoy life until your number is called.

But mark my words... this virus will be apocalyptic. And all because of the stupidity of the human race.


I'm starting to predict the opposite, based on the math. Currently one in four people in Florida is testing positive. In Miami/Dade it's one in three. We're going to reach herd immunity sooner rather than later, and sooner than the CDC predicted. Also, another key point is that the "rate" of hospitalizations is going down(the percentage of people who need to go to the hospital after getting it). All signs point to more people having had it than they thought. To put it in Darwin terms, the majority of the weakest of the weak have been hit already. Those people needed hospitals and graves. The next wave of patients not so much because the percent of people who can be killed or even infected anymore is constantly going down. My biggest fear is that it starts to vanish before the election and Trump supporters use it to claim their leader a genius for not wearing a mask. They say "even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while". I think the Donald may have found his one nut. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:04 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:

I'm starting to predict the opposite, based on the math. Currently one in four people in Florida is testing positive. In Miami/Dade it's one in three. We're going to reach herd immunity sooner rather than later, and sooner than the CDC predicted. Also, another key point is that the "rate" of hospitalizations is going down(the percentage of people who need to go to the hospital after getting it). All signs point to more people having had it than they thought. To put it in Darwin terms, the majority of the weakest of the weak have been hit already. Those people needed hospitals and graves. The next wave of patients not so much because the percent of people who can be killed or even infected anymore is constantly going down. My biggest fear is that it starts to vanish before the election and Trump supporters use it to claim their leader a genius for not wearing a mask. They say "even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while". I think the Donald may have found his one nut. :(



I don't want to poke holes in your balloon, but like I have said before we don't know a lot about the virus, and we continue to learn every day. It is now understood that achieving herd immunity might not be a long term cure for the public's problems. It is now known that if a person does become immune, that the protection will probably disappear in the matter of a few weeks, again making that person capable of becoming once again infected.

Also the rate of hospitalizations is going down, due mainly to the fact those getting infected are those bulletproof youngsters, which the President wants to go back to school. What needs to be more carefully looked at is the number of hospital beds available especially ICU beds, and the total number of deaths, which is going up more every day. We now have over 3,000,000 citizens infected, over 135,000 people dead from the virus, over 500,000 hospitalized. When you have to go to the hospital you have a one in four chance of not coming out roughly.

Things are looking pretty grim, we are reporting nearly 70,000 new infections a day nationally, well on our way to 100,000 new infections a day. Our death rates will be spiking soon once again, and hospitals are starting to become overwhelmed, we are only a few weeks away from having to do like Italy did. The doctors having to make life and death decisions about who will get a hospital bed and who won't, based on chance of survival, trying to save as many patients as possible.

Let us be clear the reason we are at this point is because we couldn't make the hard choices necessary to bring this virus under control. The present administration has bungled the pandemic from the start, and continues to down play it's importance. The president finally wore a mask yesterday, a little late to set a good example, wouldn't you say? We have not hit the flu season yet and there will be no second spike, since we never got out of the first wave. Once again medical supplies are starting to run low, so it is plain we are in a tough spot as a nation, and we will probably have to shut down once again, to get this right. The EU has got it right are we dumber than they are? We are not going to save the economy, if consumers do not come out and spend money, with millions of workers still unemployed, stimulus money running out, many will have no money to spend.

P.S. Don't worry about this disappearing by election day, by that time over 200,000 will have died by most estimates. It all goes to prove Trump is nuttier than a squirrel's turd.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:09 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
I don't want to poke holes in your balloon, but like I have said before we don't know a lot about the virus


Speak for yourself. I have enough data to make a decision. It's a virus. It's stronger than the flu but weaker than ebola. We've seen the rate it kills. We know who the vulnerable are. We know Americans have the "every man for himself" attitude and are willing to let this thing run over us. It's just a math problem at this point, and I'm pretty good at crunching numbers.


The Lone Ranger wrote:
Things are looking pretty grim, we are reporting nearly 70,000 new infections a day nationally, well on our way to 100,000 new infections a day.


So? They're not deaths, and the higher that number goes, the closer we are to this being over. What you call "grim", I call finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. This cannot be contained. It's no more "contained" in Europe either. It's just slowed down. Yes the U.S. has the highest rate of infections, but the U.S. will also be the place where it first starts to go away. Flattening the curve makes the curve last longer and there's no way around that. You want a long flat curve and I (along with most Americans) just want a short one. Evidence shows that most Americans clearly don't consider themselves responsible for the vulnerable. There is no other way to interpret their defiance, and you think you're going to change their minds?


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:08 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
Evidence shows that most Americans clearly don't consider themselves responsible for the vulnerable.

Evidence also shows that most Americans don't care about anybody except themselves. And that goes from the current president, right on down. If people truly cared, we wouldn't be fighting this pandemic right now... it would be gone.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:25 am 
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I just read that the Surgeon General said that if everyone (key word: "everyone") wore a mask and practiced social distancing, this would be gone in 2 to 3 weeks.

It's a simple fix, right? And we all want things to go back to normal, right?

Well, that won't happen since people are idiots. They are self centered morons. If everyone bucked up and sacrificed for a couple of weeks, we can nip this in the butt. But people would rather do what they want instead of coming together and doing what's necessary.

We the people, have the power to end this pandemic. But again, it's never going to happen because the human race is the most stupidest specie on the planet... therefore, it will continue to spread and take many more lives.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:21 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:

So? They're not deaths, and the higher that number goes, the closer we are to this being over. What you call "grim", I call finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. This cannot be contained. It's no more "contained" in Europe either. It's just slowed down. Yes the U.S. has the highest rate of infections, but the U.S. will also be the place where it first starts to go away. Flattening the curve makes the curve last longer and there's no way around that. You want a long flat curve and I (along with most Americans) just want a short one. Evidence shows that most Americans clearly don't consider themselves responsible for the vulnerable. There is no other way to interpret their defiance, and you think you're going to change their minds?



Maybe closer but no where near where we need to be as far as opening up like before. I saw a Vice Admiral doctor on Meet The Press this morning and he said specifically that bars would have to remain closed, also restaurants would have to stay a 50% capacity. These are two of the main venues for KJ's doing business, this means no karaoke which is a super spreader activity. That is the whole problem Bob there is no short term fix on the virus, it is not a sprint, but rather a marathon endurance race. Minds will change as soon as there is not conflicting messages from the top, and we are all as a nation on the same page.


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