KARAOKE SCENE MAGAZINE ONLINE! - Singers handling your expensive mics. Public Forums Karaoke Discussions Karaoke Scene's Karaoke Forums Home | Contact Us | Site Map  

Karaoke Forums

Karaoke Scene Karaoke Forums

Karaoke Scene

   
  * Login
  * Register

  * FAQ
  * Search

Custom Search

Social Networks


premium-member

Offsite Links


It is currently Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:58 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:52 pm 
Offline
Extreme Poster
Extreme Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:24 pm
Posts: 4316
Been Liked: 1014 times
So, here's the deal...

I've been using the GTD Audio and Phenyx Pro wireless mics. They are both very good, providing they are used properly. However, when a singer has the mic right against their mouth and doesn't move it back when there's a loud part of the song, there is clipping and the sound is distorted. With some singers, I anticipate this and use Gain Riding... but, you never know when someone's going to scream into the mic. When that happens, the mic is overloaded and distortion occurs.

Now, I also have expensive wireless mics too, like Sennheiser. These are $500 for one set (mic and receiver). They are much better at handling screaming singers. The problem is, I've always been very reluctant to put an expensive mic in just anybody's hands.

A lot of singers come up after eating those wings, or fried foods, with their greasy hands.... and even though the mics are better with clipping, I cringe to hand them an expensive mic so they can get greasy food all over it.

So, I have a dilemma... use the cheaper mics and deal with the distortion and clipping or use the expensive ones that can be mistreated by singers but have better sound and no distortion.

I believe we've talked about this in the past but now I have to decide what would be best for me and my shows during these times.

_________________
Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.


Top
 Profile Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:50 am 
Offline
Advanced Poster
Advanced Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:09 pm
Posts: 465
Been Liked: 155 times
If I were in your shoes, I'd probably stick with the cheaper microphones, depending on the environment. With the details provided, it doesn't sound like it's a case where people get more careless as the night goes on (I have a friend who switches mics halfway through the show once the crowd starts getting more drunk), but a place that the main issue is the food and other things which, I imagine, could damage the mics if it got into the workings of it.

_________________
Co-host of The Greatest Song Ever Sung (Poorly), a karaoke-themed podcast


Top
 Profile Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 7:54 am 
Offline
Extreme Poster
Extreme Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:24 pm
Posts: 4316
Been Liked: 1014 times
NoShameKaraoke wrote:
If I were in your shoes, I'd probably stick with the cheaper microphones, depending on the environment. With the details provided, it doesn't sound like it's a case where people get more careless as the night goes on (I have a friend who switches mics halfway through the show once the crowd starts getting more drunk), but a place that the main issue is the food and other things which, I imagine, could damage the mics if it got into the workings of it.
Yeah, as much as I want to use the better mics, you do have to consider the ramifications. To replace a GTD Audio or Phenyx Pro mic would cost under $40 versus $200 to replace the Sennheiser mic.

Personally, if it was me... I would wait until I was finished eating before singing and I would wash my hands. It's sad that some people show no respect for your equipment.

_________________
Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.


Top
 Profile Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:35 am 
Offline
Super Extreme Poster
Super Extreme Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm
Posts: 22937
Songs: 35
Images: 3
Location: Tacoma, WA
Been Liked: 2116 times
I went back to using my Shure SM58 wireless systems(middle quality, not top or entry grade) Yes they get accidently dropped on occasion but only dents the ball which i simply replace. Been in service for about 5 years now

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
Image


Top
 Profile Personal album Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 12:54 am 
Offline
Extreme Plus Poster
Extreme Plus Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:24 pm
Posts: 5083
Location: Phoenix Az
Been Liked: 1263 times
used Sennheiser for many years and never had to replace any of them. they are bulletproof, even getting dropped and even thrown across the room (she saw her guy hitting on another woman) they never once failed. i have replaced GTD mics, but never a Sennheiser.

_________________
Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens


Top
 Profile Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:43 am 
Offline
Extreme Poster
Extreme Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:24 pm
Posts: 4316
Been Liked: 1014 times
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
used Sennheiser for many years and never had to replace any of them. they are bulletproof, even getting dropped and even thrown across the room (she saw her guy hitting on another woman) they never once failed. i have replaced GTD mics, but never a Sennheiser.

Which model do you have? The wireless set that I have uses a e835 capsule, just like the wired version, but unlike the wired version, the body is ABS, not metal. Although, one of the benefits of ABS plastic is supposed to be strong impact resistance.

Maybe, I'll start using them and see how it goes.

_________________
Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.


Top
 Profile Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:46 am 
Offline
Extreme Poster
Extreme Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:24 pm
Posts: 4316
Been Liked: 1014 times
Lonman wrote:
I went back to using my Shure SM58 wireless systems(middle quality, not top or entry grade) Yes they get accidently dropped on occasion but only dents the ball which i simply replace. Been in service for about 5 years now

By going back to the Shure SM58 wireless, did doing so eliminate the distortion from the loud singers and screamers who have their mouth right on top of the mic? I understand that the SM58 can handle high sound pressure levels a lot better.

_________________
Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.


Top
 Profile Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:54 am 
Offline
Extreme Plus Poster
Extreme Plus Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:24 pm
Posts: 5083
Location: Phoenix Az
Been Liked: 1263 times
Alan B wrote:
Which model do you have? The wireless set that I have uses a e835 capsule, just like the wired version, but unlike the wired version, the body is ABS, not metal. Although, one of the benefits of ABS plastic is supposed to be strong impact resistance.

Maybe, I'll start using them and see how it goes.

I have the EW100 series with the 835 capsule

_________________
Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens


Top
 Profile Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:46 pm 
Offline
Super Extreme Poster
Super Extreme Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm
Posts: 22937
Songs: 35
Images: 3
Location: Tacoma, WA
Been Liked: 2116 times
Alan B wrote:
Lonman wrote:
I went back to using my Shure SM58 wireless systems(middle quality, not top or entry grade) Yes they get accidently dropped on occasion but only dents the ball which i simply replace. Been in service for about 5 years now

By going back to the Shure SM58 wireless, did doing so eliminate the distortion from the loud singers and screamers who have their mouth right on top of the mic? I understand that the SM58 can handle high sound pressure levels a lot better.
they still bottom out but nearly as noticeable with the gtds i had

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
Image


Top
 Profile Personal album Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:12 am 
Offline
Extreme Poster
Extreme Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:24 pm
Posts: 4316
Been Liked: 1014 times
OK, at my last two shows, I used the Sennheiser e835 (wireless) as well as an Electro-Voice ND86, which is an amazing mic, in the right hands.

Compared to the GTD Audio and Phenyx Pro mics, they sound better, have basically no feedback and are better at handling loud singers.

But.. there is still distortion if someone screams or sings loudly into the mic when it's touching their lips.

So, I will conclude... that no matter how good a mic is, if you overload the signal by having it right on top of your mouth and scream into it, it's going to distort. Plain and simple.

I try to tell this type of singer that the closer the mic is to your mouth, the worse you're going to sound. You're going to sound garbled and distorted and that the louder you sing the more your volume is going to be cut.

The bottom line is... it's not so much the mic... it's the singer.

I have a compressor in another rig that I haven't used but now I'm going to give that a try and see if the compressor will eliminate distortion from those loud peaks when a singer is screaming or singing very loudly on top of the mic.

_________________
Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.


Top
 Profile Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:58 pm 
Offline
Super Extreme Poster
Super Extreme Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm
Posts: 22937
Songs: 35
Images: 3
Location: Tacoma, WA
Been Liked: 2116 times
The comp4essor will not eliminate or reduce the distortion levels since the distortion is coming from the mic receiver but it will reduce the volume of the louder passages so distortion may not seem as noticeable.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
Image


Top
 Profile Personal album Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 4:54 pm 
Offline
Extreme Poster
Extreme Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:24 pm
Posts: 4316
Been Liked: 1014 times
Lonman wrote:
The comp4essor will not eliminate or reduce the distortion levels since the distortion is coming from the mic receiver but it will reduce the volume of the louder passages so distortion may not seem as noticeable.

So, I take it in this situation, it would be better to use a wired mic, correct? Also, I have my compression settings at -10 for Threshold and 3:1 for Ratio. For Attack and Release, should I use the fast settings or put it on Auto? Or, what do you think would be the ideal settings for loud singers/screamers who have the mic right on top of their mouth? Thanks.

_________________
Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.


Top
 Profile Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:53 am 
Offline
Extreme Plus Poster
Extreme Plus Poster

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:22 am
Posts: 5815
Been Liked: 621 times
Let us get one thing clear, karaoke singers are not professional singers, they know little or nothing about controlling the mic, like most professional singers do. After doing this for years I have run the full course on hosts and singers in my local area. Some hosts I can hold the mic down at my waist and you can still hear me fine, others you can shout into the mic and it is hard to hear the singer over the music, and everything in between. At the end of the day you have to ask yourself do you really want mostly non-professional singers handling your expensive mics? I know some of you want to have the best karaoke experience possible for your patrons, on the other hand who can afford to have delicate equipment damaged and spending money to replace it?

At the end of the day you Alan are running a business, where you have to cut your overhead as much as possible, since the profit margins like every other business are being squeezed. That is why I use rechargeable batteries in my mics to cut down on the cost of replacing batteries, it is little things that can aid your bottom line. I mean after all if you are making 150.00 a gig you do have to deduct expenses, such as replacement of damaged equipment, the venue isn't going to pay for it.

The solution is to have decent mics such as the GTD's or other mid range acceptable alternatives, please don't go ultra cheap, like Vocal Pro like some local hosts have.


Top
 Profile Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:44 am 
Offline
Extreme Poster
Extreme Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:24 pm
Posts: 4316
Been Liked: 1014 times
The Lone Ranger wrote:
Let us get one thing clear, karaoke singers are not professional singers, they know little or nothing about controlling the mic, like most professional singers do. After doing this for years I have run the full course on hosts and singers in my local area. Some hosts I can hold the mic down at my waist and you can still hear me fine, others you can shout into the mic and it is hard to hear the singer over the music, and everything in between. At the end of the day you have to ask yourself do you really want mostly non-professional singers handling your expensive mics? I know some of you want to have the best karaoke experience possible for your patrons, on the other hand who can afford to have delicate equipment damaged and spending money to replace it?

At the end of the day you Alan are running a business, where you have to cut your overhead as much as possible, since the profit margins like every other business are being squeezed. That is why I use rechargeable batteries in my mics to cut down on the cost of replacing batteries, it is little things that can aid your bottom line. I mean after all if you are making 150.00 a gig you do have to deduct expenses, such as replacement of damaged equipment, the venue isn't going to pay for it.

The solution is to have decent mics such as the GTD's or other mid range acceptable alternatives, please don't go ultra cheap, like Vocal Pro like some local hosts have.

Yes, everything you're saying makes perfect sense, and it's what I've always done. However, when I use my good mics (Shure, Sennheiser), there is definitely a difference in sound quality compared to the GTD Audio. They sound better, are less prone to feedback and handle distortion caused by loud singers, much better. Not perfect, but better.

Of course, I want to provide my singers with the best sounding experience. But as you've pointed out, there is a trade off...

So, I can easily hand my good mics to the singers who actually know how to use a mic and that I trust... and for everyone else, give a GTD Audio mic.

The bad thing about that is we'll have to suffer through the distortion and feedback caused by the bad and loud singers. So, it comes down to either having good sound across the board, knowing that there is a chance that some drunk can drop or damage your mic... or have inferior sound with the feedback and distortion that goes along with it.

Personally, I have always been known for having the best sound. I've gotten many, many compliments on this over the years. When a customer comes out to my show, I want them to say, wow, I've never sounded better.

So, with that said... I think I would rather take a chance using the better mics than go the cheap route at the expense of inferior sound.

_________________
Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.


Top
 Profile Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:53 am 
Offline
Super Duper Poster
Super Duper Poster

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:49 pm
Posts: 2266
Been Liked: 263 times
It has been said before, but here goes again.

When it comes to choosing mics, the qualities of a microphone that you are looking for are:

1) Durability
2) Quality of sound
3) Affordability/Cheap

Pick 2 of the 3 choices, you won't get all three.


Top
 Profile Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:14 pm 
Offline
Extreme Plus Poster
Extreme Plus Poster

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:22 am
Posts: 5815
Been Liked: 621 times
Alan B wrote:

So, I can easily hand my good mics to the singers who actually know how to use a mic and that I trust... and for everyone else, give a GTD Audio mic.




Some of this is true, but consider this? If the singer actually know how to use aka control the mike, he or she can take any mic on any song and make it ok. I have found out using GTD that it can be used by either great or average singers. I don't like have one mic for some patrons and another for others, just like when I host I use the same mic as everyone else, if asked to. Not a special one that makes me sound better.


Top
 Profile Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:41 pm 
Offline
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:03 pm
Posts: 184
Been Liked: 49 times
Shure 58’s are tanks, no doubt about it! They’re probably your best bet for singer’s use, simply because they’ll take a beating, and still function. As for screamers, if you don’t already have one, you might consider a compressor/limiter. I’ve had a few idiots in my day try to do a primal scream into the mic, and my trusty DBX saved the day, on more than one occasion!
Just my 2 cents……


Top
 Profile Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:51 am 
Offline
Extreme Poster
Extreme Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:24 pm
Posts: 4316
Been Liked: 1014 times
BT Magic wrote:
Shure 58’s are tanks, no doubt about it! They’re probably your best bet for singer’s use, simply because they’ll take a beating, and still function. As for screamers, if you don’t already have one, you might consider a compressor/limiter. I’ve had a few idiots in my day try to do a primal scream into the mic, and my trusty DBX saved the day, on more than one occasion!
Just my 2 cents……

At my last show, I used my rig containing a Mackie ProFX16V3. It's got inserts that I have my DBX 266 compressor connected to. It's also got one knob compression on 8 of the Mono channels. It's in a SKB case... that is huge, heavy, and bulky. That's why I've always used my Allen & Heath mixer in a Gator case that's much lighter without the bulk. But the A&H mixer doesn't have inserts or one knob compression.

So, anyway... I did a test on the Mackie setup. First using the DBX 266. Then just using the one knob compression.

The results:

They both did an excellent job at keeping distortion from loud singers at bay. In fact, I hardly noticed any at all. The one knob compressor did just as good a job as the outboard DBX.

Now, if I can only find a mixer with one knob compression that will fit into my 8U slant top Gator case, I'll be happy, since I really don't want to lug around the humongous SKB setup which is 10U on top and 4U on the bottom.

But, I have proven that compression does work for loud/screaming singers, whether it be an outboard one or built in one knob.

_________________
Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.


Top
 Profile Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:47 pm 
Offline
Advanced Poster
Advanced Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:37 pm
Posts: 488
Location: fl
Been Liked: 122 times
Was a die-hard believer in Shure 58's for years and then switched to the wireless Shure pgx 24. They are quality mics and no cords for people to fall over, etc. I've had them both for about 6 or 7 years and everyone, including me love them. My hosts use them as well.

On occasion I have brought out my mutant mics, but quickly realized that it was a bad idea.

_________________
Sound Choice and Chartbuster Certified


Top
 Profile Singer's Showcase Profile 
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 137 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

Privacy Policy | Anti-Spam Policy | Acceptable Use Policy Copyright © Karaoke Scene Magazine
design & hosting by Cross Web Tech