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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 2:31 am 
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:?: Despite all of the trillions of dollars spent on trying to save small business's and to bail out the economy in general, unemployment rate has hit Great Depression levels. Many of the venues that karaoke hosts used to play at have closed, and have not reopened. If they do reopen it is most likely that they will have little in their reduced budgets for entertainment. The main job of the host is to gather a crowd, gathering crowds at this time is not a good idea. If there had been no pandemic, due to automation, it is still estimated that 800 million jobs currently done would have been lost globally over the next 5 to 10 years. For our economy that is devastating since we are consumer driven. When the consumers have no income then they are unable to buy, it is as simple as that.

This all effects karaoke hosts directly since we are all part of the consumer based economy of this country. People are not buying or going out because they have lost their jobs, are saving their money, or the majority don't want to expose themselves to the possibility of contracting the virus, in a public setting. Direct payments to citizens makes sense since it puts money in their pockets now, that they can spend to try and keep the economy running, even if it is at a reduced rate. Right now most hosts are sitting home like everyone else, it is very likely they will be the last to come back to work in most cases. To prevent spreading the virus it will be necessary for hosts to in addition to their other duties keep the karaoke work area extremely clean, this will involve considerable expense. Many hosts were already struggling with thin profit margins, not to mention many cleaning supplies are currently in short supply.

Let's face it many hosts don't qualify for any type of unemployment or small business loans, since they have been working under the table and not paying taxes. Those pirates that the professional karaoke hosts bemoan all of the time. If nothing UBI would eliminate many of these fly by night operators, since they will take the easy way out, and accept the government income. Since the rest of the karaoke hosting is a small mom and pop operation, except for the large multi riggers, who probably could apply for small business loans, both would also be helped by UBI. It would give them the means to pay their basic bills, while still being able to wait out the economic roller coaster that will be with us for sometime.

We as an industry have to face the reality that in many cases the venues who once had entertainment, will either go out of business, or if they continue they will get rid of entertainment, at least for the duration of the virus pandemic. As a society we need to build a floor to keep citizens from falling into poverty and homelessness, hosts are citizens to.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 7:56 am 
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:!: A simple test to me on how bad things really are involves the availability of certain basic household items. TP, paper towels, disinfecting antibacterial soap, tissues, and other cleaning supplies aren't in local stores in any great amounts. So far there is enough fresh food, especially fruits and vegetables. The supply of fresh meat is still good despite the meat plant problems. Things are supposed to get better soon, yet I'm wondering if a second wave of virus might make resupplying problematic? We will be facing either one of two scenarios going forward an economy racked by either inflation of deflation. One way to balance everything out is to make sure consumers have money to spend to keep the economy going. If too many have no income and their business's fail it would have long term deep financial consequences for this country. Like I have said hosts are part of this economy also, the future of the industry is dependent on how fast the economy as a whole recovers. Additional spikes in the infection rate will further drag down economic recovery, making it even longer between gigs for most hosts.


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 5:15 pm 
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:shock: Well it looks like finally Congress is going to try and start building up the economy from the bottom up. Senators Kamala Harris and Ed Markey are introducing a bill for all Americans to receive $2,000.00 at month, $4,000.00 per couple,who make under $120,000 a year, for the duration of the pandemic, and to continue for three months after the pandemic is no longer a public health threat. This would mean that all of the hosts out here would not have to choose between eating to stay alive and staying alive period. I'm sure if this was started the advantages to society would become apparent, and would lead to this being a permanent part of the safety net for all. This is not the first pandemic we will have to face. This along with a public health option, and food security for all, would go along way to make life better for everyone, not just the 1% at the top.


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 6:40 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
:shock: Well it looks like finally Congress is going to try and start building up the economy from the bottom up. Senators Kamala Harris and Ed Markey are introducing a bill for all Americans to receive $2,000.00 at month, $4,000.00 per couple,who make under $120,000 a year, for the duration of the pandemic, and to continue for three months after the pandemic is no longer a public health threat. This would mean that all of the hosts out here would not have to choose between eating to stay alive and staying alive period. I'm sure if this was started the advantages to society would become apparent, and would lead to this being a permanent part of the safety net for all. This is not the first pandemic we will have to face. This along with a public health option, and food security for all, would go along way to make life better for everyone, not just the 1% at the top.

Don't count on it. In fact look for Moscow Mitch McConnell to change it into a loan against future Social Security benefits that may not even happen leaving a 25 year old to work until he is dead before he pays back the loan.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 6:53 pm 
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:!: Moscow Mitch is already trying to to that without this bill. You get a $10,000.00 lump sum if you forgo some of your future Social Security benefits, he is a real scoundrel, for lack of a more printable word.


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 11:34 am 
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:? So there are no magic bullets, minus a vaccine, or even testing , contact tracing, and selected isolation. We will have to practice social distancing, which means the trying to host karaoke shows will be very difficult if not impossible, if the host intends to do it safely. The host should take the attitude of a doctor, which means that they should do no harm. That there shows should not be breeding grounds for spreading this virus, thus making their shows, public health menaces. If hosts cannot work due to the nature of their jobs, then they should be in the vanguard of the UBI movement. The would get paid by the government for doing a public service, not having shows, and keeping all citizens safe.


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 3:16 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
If hosts cannot work due to the nature of their jobs, then they should be in the vanguard of the UBI movement. The would get paid by the government for doing a public service, not having shows, and keeping all citizens safe.

yes but....
the downside is if they do not go back to the bars when the bars want karaoke back, those bars will find someone else.
going on UBI when the bars are running again means starting over with no shows and rebuilding.

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 3:28 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
yes but....
the downside is if they do not go back to the bars when the bars want karaoke back, those bars will find someone else.
going on UBI when the bars are running again means starting over with no shows and rebuilding.



:!: I know you are a thoughtful host Paradigm that does your best even in none virus times to keep your operation clean. Are there any bars in your home state of Arizona that are reopening and wanting entertainment? I would think that even if bars were reopening they would discourage entertainment for a while, since they would be opening under new strict capacity guidelines. Your show is designed to gather a crowd not to discourage one from forming. Also Arizona would be reopening at a time when the infection rate of your state is climbing. The current projection for increase of infection of your state is at 271% that the death rate of over 400 will go up to over 2700 in the next few weeks. Virus UBI would help mainly those hosts that are older, who might not be going back to work currently. Just because business's reopen doesn't mean that the crowds will be there to support the venues. Have you gone back to work yet, and if so how have your crowds been? We are still only in the early innings of a 9 inning game with possible overtime with this pandemic? Each host would have to weigh the risk of hosting again given their age, health, and the current status of the virus in their state. All I'm saying is UBI would help hosts get through these tough times, so they would be around when and if there is a recovery, from a recession/depression we are heading for.

P.S. One of the nice things about UBI is it provides a floor you can't fall under economically, if you chose to work during the pandemic you would still get UBI. That is why the idea UBI makes you lazy is for the most part not true, it provides the floor, human nature being greedy, you can work as much as you want up to 120,000 a year. Is any host earning more than that currently, just on hosting? It is just every host will have to chose whether he or she wants to be responsible for making the pandemic last longer and have more infections and deaths that would be part of that scenario. After this pandemic the whole country will be rebuilding, not just shows for hosts.


Last edited by The Lone Ranger on Wed May 13, 2020 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 5:13 am 
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I personally feel that all forms of entertainment (karaoke, bands, etc.) that draw in a crowd, should be put on hold until there is a cure and a vaccine. At this point in time you're putting yourself and your patrons at risk, despite how many precautions we take.

While keeping your area clean and sanitizing your mics after each performance is certainly helpful, it doesn't mean that you or a patron can't get this virus.

Look at how many health care professionals (doctors, nurses, etc.) have contracted the Corona Virus even though they were protecting themselves by wearing masks and gloves. Yet, they still got the virus and many of them have died.

So, don't think by wearing a mask and/or gloves that you're immune. You are STILL at risk. Maybe not as much as if you wore nothing but still taking a big chance.

I think that every karaoke host needs to ask themselves... Is karaoke that important that I'd be willing to risk my life for it?

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 5:39 am 
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:?: That is the question Alan? For those hosts that have to work to survive UBI could help out until it is safe to start drawing a crowd again. After all hosts are people and they do have to eat.


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 8:06 am 
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:roll: :roll: For those of you conservative hosts that say this is creeping socialism, and it shouldn't happen, did you get a stimulus check? If you did then you just got a slice of the socialist pie, didn't you? Did you say you wouldn't accept the money on the principle that it is a slippery slope? I know I took mine and put it to work, buying Municipal bonds to put people to work in my state. Did I need the money no, did I take it yes. Just like all of the large companies that tout capitalism, and accept socialistic bailouts aka government handouts. I don't feel bad, they don't feel bad, even though companies can raise money through bank loans and the sale of corporate bonds. UBI insures since we live in a consumer driven economy, that the consumers will be able to still buy goods and services, no matter what the job situation in the country happens to be. So to all of you rugged individuals who don't want any help, please donate your stimulus to others that will accept it and need it.


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 12:49 pm 
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:!: Well for those of you that were afraid that this country would become another Socialist nation, you have dodged the bullet for now. The new stimulus bill only has another one time payment of 1200.00 per person. If it gets out of Congress the opposition thinks it is too much to give away. I wonder if they will be singing the same tune when all the money runs out in a few months, and people start getting very hungry?


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 2:19 am 
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:!: If anyone thinks this virus is not going to be around for a while, better listen to the WHO who just made a public statement. In it they talked about the fact the virus could be around for years and the final death toll could exceed the 50 million deaths worldwide of the Spanish Flu of 1918. Anybody hoping things are going to return to normal anytime soon is literally whistling past the graveyard, because of the potential length of the problem, some form of UBI will be needed to prevent society from devolving into anarchy.


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 6:02 am 
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You're going to get it, sooner or later. Hopefully you are one of the 50+% that doesn't even know they have it, but with how contagious it is, and how many people don't have symptoms, how long it lives on surfaces, and how widespread it is, you might as well accept that covid-19 will not be eradicated and you will be getting it at some point. Some of you probably have already had it and didn't know it.

Now, forcing everyone to sit at home and totally wreck the economy, sending us into depression levels of unemployment with no clear end in sight, devastating the business model for DJs, KJs, bars, restaurants, and possibly changing those industries entirely.. all so our elders can live out a few more years in hopes of a vaccine? Any and all Americans are free to self-isolate, but instead we are forcing an entirely man-made depression with the only concern for the people affected being trite solutions such as "just print money". You'll note that baby boomers never once did anything similar for their elders, never shut down society for months and years at a time. Somehow young people are expected to do this for them with no questions asked.

UBI is not a sustainable long term solution. Printing free money for years, in a country 20+ trillion dollars in debt, is something that certainly appeals to naive young people without a clear grasp of economics, but I would expect better of older folks, unless they just don't care about the world they are leaving behind. If you pay people to sit at home for months and years at a time, this county will never return to normal. Plenty of people who could work will get in the habit of not doing it, and certain politicians will be telling them they deserve even more benefits. The people who want to go back to how things were, while ridiculed, at least have an appreciation for the freedom of the American lifestyle that many of us take for granted.

If this little experiment we are undergoing fails and completely, unreversably changes America for the worse, if the depression level misery hits and lasts... if entire industries are bankrupted... that's okay because you had good intentions, right? Send those free money checks, working was so 20th century..


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 6:24 am 
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zeke wrote:

UBI is not a sustainable long term solution. Printing free money for years, in a country 20+ trillion dollars in debt, is something that certainly appeals to naive young people without a clear grasp of economics, but I would expect better of older folks, unless they just don't care about the world they are leaving behind. If you pay people to sit at home for months and years at a time, this county will never return to normal. Plenty of people who could work will get in the habit of not doing it, and certain politicians will be telling them they deserve even more benefits. The people who want to go back to how things were, while ridiculed, at least have an appreciation for the freedom of the American lifestyle that many of us take for granted.

If this little experiment we are undergoing fails and completely, unreversably changes America for the worse, if the depression level misery hits and lasts... if entire industries are bankrupted... that's okay because you had good intentions, right? Send those free money checks, working was so 20th century..


:!: Wrong Zeke UBI is sustainable long term, just read Andrew Yang's book. The idea was originally pushed by Richard Nixon a Republican president. Yang says we can pay for UBI by placing a VAT tax to cover most of the cost. When UBI is put into place many government agencies now tasked with the maintenance of the social safety net would be eliminated, since we would be paying citizens direct, and they decide how the money is spent. I wouldn't worry to much about the printing of more money, the FED is doing exactly that right now to prop up the stock market. In fact they released 4 trillion dollars themselves, no Congressional ok, and the taxpayers are stuck with the bill. How is that for taxation without representation? Like I have pointed out there is a very powerful motivator in most people greed, if they are getting their basic needs met, they will always work to get the extra goodies. You see government in order to maintain civil obedience is going to have to pay out money, otherwise in a country awash with guns, people who are hungry will simply take from those who have. It is in everybody's interest to maintain the basic status quo, in order to avoid a total civil break down.

P.S. Nobody would be forced to sit home if we had a handle on testing, contact tracing, and isolating infected virus carriers. If we did those three things we could open up, maybe not fully but enough to take away the prison stigma placed on self isolation.


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 2:47 am 
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The Lone Ranger
we did 2 shows tonight. if we had decided not to, the bars would have hired another company to do so. we had no choice.
granted...now the conservatives will jump up and down crying that i DO have a choice...
but you know how that goes....
do what I want or go to hell.

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 4:52 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
The Lone Ranger
we did 2 shows tonight. if we had decided not to, the bars would have hired another company to do so. we had no choice.
granted...now the conservatives will jump up and down crying that i DO have a choice...
but you know how that goes....
do what I want or go to hell.



:?: Since you are actually physically doing shows, you can answer some questions Paradigm! Are any of the guidelines being followed at the venues you are playing at? How are the venues protecting themselves from possible legal suits by customers who become infected at their place of business? Evidently the Governor of your state has reopened, he is ignoring the Federal guidelines to do so, since the infection rate in your state continues to climb, and is now increasing at a rate of 271%. Are you still having the same crowds you did before, or are they smaller? Also after a few drinks are all of the social distancing, non contact rules falling by the wayside. In Wisconsin you see pictures of packed bars no one wearing a mask, giving the high five, hugging, I'm surprised people aren't kissing one another.

Actually you do have a choice, yes you would take a hit financially, maybe it might be time to find another line of work? It is all up to you whether hosting is worth risking your life night after night. It just takes getting the virus once, then playing Russian roulette whether you are the next unlucky victim. Ironically if you die someone else will get the gig anyway. If UBI were in place you would have a source of income if needed to see you through the tough times. Then you could transition into another career, if needed.


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 5:10 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
The Lone Ranger
we did 2 shows tonight. if we had decided not to, the bars would have hired another company to do so. we had no choice.
granted...now the conservatives will jump up and down crying that i DO have a choice...
but you know how that goes....
do what I want or go to hell.



:?: Since you are actually physically doing shows, you can answer some questions Paradigm! Are any of the guidelines being followed at the venues you are playing at? How are the venues protecting themselves from possible legal suits by customers who become infected at their place of business? Evidently the Governor of your state has reopened, he is ignoring the Federal guidelines to do so, since the infection rate in your state continues to climb, and is now increasing at a rate of 271%. Are you still having the same crowds you did before, or are they smaller? Also after a few drinks are all of the social distancing, non contact rules falling by the wayside. In Wisconsin you see pictures of packed bars no one wearing a mask, giving the high five, hugging, I'm surprised people aren't kissing one another.

Actually you do have a choice, yes you would take a hit financially, maybe it might be time to find another line of work? It is all up to you whether hosting is worth risking your life night after night. It just takes getting the virus once, then playing Russian roulette whether you are the next unlucky victim. Ironically if you die someone else will get the gig anyway. If UBI were in place you would have a source of income if needed to see you through the tough times. Then you could transition into another career, if needed.


Yes, we have a choice,,, "eat or starve", "pay bills or watch them pile up unpaid". I have said this many times, "Life must go on", even with the risks. For those out there like you Lone Ranger, who have had the "luxury" (yes, that is what it is) of being able to sit at home while the money still comes in, month after month. Those whose homes are paid for. Those who have had the luck to have had jobs that afforded the "extras" and to be able to save for your golden years. Those people are in the minority. The majority still MUST be able to support their families by going back to work. UBI is a great idea if it had been planned for already, but it's like unscrambling the eggs after they have been cooked. It's too late for that now for the general public. The funds are simply not there without costing us worse in the future. The world and the country need to get back to work regardless of the risks. You can sit there all you want and wish for something that just isn't to be. But the truth is a hard road to follow.


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 5:54 am 
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mrscott wrote:

Yes, we have a choice,,, "eat or starve", "pay bills or watch them pile up unpaid". I have said this many times, "Life must go on", even with the risks. For those out there like you Lone Ranger, who have had the "luxury" (yes, that is what it is) of being able to sit at home while the money still comes in, month after month. Those whose homes are paid for. Those who have had the luck to have had jobs that afforded the "extras" and to be able to save for your golden years. Those people are in the minority. The majority still MUST be able to support their families by going back to work. UBI is a great idea if it had been planned for already, but it's like unscrambling the eggs after they have been cooked. It's too late for that now for the general public. The funds are simply not there without costing us worse in the future. The world and the country need to get back to work regardless of the risks. You can sit there all you want and wish for something that just isn't to be. But the truth is a hard road to follow.



:!: That luxury as you call it wasn't given to me MrScott, it was earned. Just like anything I have gotten in my life. Out of eight kids in my family, only me and my brother, managed to get through the economic minefield of America, and are enjoying our retirement, most of my family is gone. My question is why does it have to be that way? Why can't all of us enjoy the benefits of living in the richest country in the world? Why does the majority have to suffer while the minority especially the 1% live so well? UBI is a great idea, it would let you work if you wanted to, it would let you live where you want to, since where you live would not be tied to a job. There is a way to set this up, the FED has pumped 4 trillion dollars into the stock market to keep it from collapsing. All they did was print the money, we could print enough money to fund UBI the same way. Aren't the people of this country just as important as stocks? After it is set up we could take a page out of Yang's book and use a VAT to cover the cost, along with additional savings realized by directly paying people. It is a hard road and few now travel it to a happy ending, it doesn't have to be that way, we make it that way. We can also unmake it if we have the will.


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 6:12 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
mrscott wrote:

Yes, we have a choice,,, "eat or starve", "pay bills or watch them pile up unpaid". I have said this many times, "Life must go on", even with the risks. For those out there like you Lone Ranger, who have had the "luxury" (yes, that is what it is) of being able to sit at home while the money still comes in, month after month. Those whose homes are paid for. Those who have had the luck to have had jobs that afforded the "extras" and to be able to save for your golden years. Those people are in the minority. The majority still MUST be able to support their families by going back to work. UBI is a great idea if it had been planned for already, but it's like unscrambling the eggs after they have been cooked. It's too late for that now for the general public. The funds are simply not there without costing us worse in the future. The world and the country need to get back to work regardless of the risks. You can sit there all you want and wish for something that just isn't to be. But the truth is a hard road to follow.



:!: That luxury as you call it wasn't given to me MrScott, it was earned. Just like anything I have gotten in my life. Out of eight kids in my family, only me and my brother, managed to get through the economic minefield of America, and are enjoying our retirement, most of my family is gone. My question is why does it have to be that way? Why can't all of us enjoy the benefits of living in the richest country in the world? Why does the majority have to suffer while the minority especially the 1% live so well? UBI is a great idea, it would let you work if you wanted to, it would let you live where you want to, since where you live would not be tied to a job. There is a way to set this up, the FED has pumped 4 trillion dollars into the stock market to keep it from collapsing. All they did was print the money, we could print enough money to fund UBI the same way. Aren't the people of this country just as important as stocks? After it is set up we could take a page out of Yang's book and use a VAT to cover the cost, along with additional savings realized by directly paying people. It is a hard road and few now travel it to a happy ending, it doesn't have to be that way, we make it that way. We can also unmake it if we have the will.


I am not saying you didn't work for what you have and where you are, but it's still a luxury. The vast majority of the population have never had the same opportunities to prosper. They grind out a living, day to day, one paycheck to the next.

Sad to say, the majority of the people never plan far enough ahead to even think about the long term future. And to take from the "have" and give to the "have nots" will NOT work, never has, never will. No matter what plan or program a government comes up with, DOES NOT WORK!! It's a pipe dream to think otherwise. Every single culture or country that has tried it, fails miserably. EVERY SINGLE ONE. What make you think we (USA) would be any different? If you take from the people who actually DO work and plan for the future, and give portions of it to the ones who do nothing to prepare or work for themselves, eventually those who DO work will quit working because there is no reason to if it's all taken away in the end anyway. That was, is, and always will be, the "American Dream", to work hard, build a business, plan for our own futures, not someones else's. In our religion, we called it the "Law of Consecration". It only worked once in the history of history, and for one city only. Simply because every single one of them were righteous people, nobody (not one) set themselves above another. Everyone worked for the common good and the welfare of the community. It worked because there was not one person who didn't do their part. Even if one single person does not do their part, it offsets the balance and it fails. Do you honestly believe we are capable of that??? If you do, you are simply living behind blinders, because the world and the country are never going to practice that level of commitment.


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