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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:11 am 
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You finally decide after 10 years to start making music again but won't let anyone buy it unless they pay for a subscription. Well, most of us don't want or need a subscription. We just want to be able to purchase single tracks as we need them.

You have once again alienated the very people who have supported you throughout the years by doing this. Keep in mind that we don't need SC music. The other brands (Karaoke Version, SBI, Sunfly, Zoom) with the exception of Zoom, can be purchased as individual downloads. And the quality today is excellent.

It's sad that you have chosen to discriminate against your customers over a stupid subscription.

And then you wonder why people steal. Yes, it's stuff like this that only contributes to piracy.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:41 am 
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Alan, I can certainly understand your frustration, when I first found out i was LIVID. I still think it sucks, but I've had time to think and calm down at least

I don't know how true it is, but the initial reason they gave was twofold. They didn't want anyone stealing the music and it was the only kind of licensing they could get, since they are basically starting at square one.


The first reason I can understand, but is kind of silly because they COULD release a buying program that was only available to certified hosts and gem users.

The second reason kind of makes sense to me considering how everything is going to streaming. Software developers are doing it, Music services are doing it. People are getting rid of cable and going with services like Netflix

PEP has already conceded on one point tho. Unlike regular suscription models, the songs you pay for CANNOT be taken away if they lose their licencing for any reason.

Hower, there is hope. Given the currently poor response i'm seeing from talking to all my host freinds, no one wants the pay every month for songs they may not need or want model. And PEP may be forced to adapt a comprimise I suggested which is. You can buy the individual songs you want for something like $4US but you have to pay the yearly renewal fee. This might keep the publishers who grant the licenses happy, and allow people to 'buy' the songs they want.

Also, as I keep telling people. There IS one possible good side to the way they have done things.

IF PEP can get enough people to use the music, they have a gaurunteed profit maker, and they do not have to be concerned about selling enough copies .

This would allow them to make song that ALL of the other karaoke producers can't touch, because a traditional 'download' model won't sell enough copies to make them a profit.

Imagine a situation where a person or host could request a song and instead of a 90% chance it won't get made, that there was an 80% chance that it will.

That would be an awesome thing for the Karaoke Industry as a whole. Which is why altho I prefer downloads, I have decided to support them for 6 months to try and obtain that user base they need to make this happen

They just need to come up with one song that everyone wants which can't be made by download, which they haven't done yet. The only song that's come close is the Styx song, which Knet got a no because they ask for full digital rights but not EVERYONE wants that song..

peace

-James


Last edited by jclaydon on Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:44 am 
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In a Capitalistic society it is what's known as "greed".

The RIAA was never happy about how the digital age removed their stranglehold on music - remember the days of buying $10 - $15 records/cassettes/cd's just to get ONE good song!

IMHO, we are moving back to that with music rental via streaming.

In all fairness, Artists were probably more fairly compensated under the old system.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:15 am 
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I have tried to explain the above to other hosts in my area, and they just don't seem to understand what I'm talking about, but I JUST though of this way to explain it with a specific song and example numbers.


I want the song "Keep on Trying" by Poco

So I submit it to Knet and to Karaoke Version to request as a download

they do a cost benefit analysis

"We need $2000 in sales to break even on this song" at $2.49/track, that means they have to sell 804 or more copies to make a profit."

end result: they decide that my song will not be made.


Now let's look at it from pep's perspective

"We need $2,000 in sales to break even on this song, at $10/subscription that means we need 201 subscriptions to make a profit. Our current subscription base is 199 but let's go ahead and see if we can get clearance. Maybe publishing this song will give us the extra 2 subscriptions we need to make a profit"

End result: my song gets made


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:20 am 
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jclaydon wrote:
Given the currently poor response i'm seeing from talking to all my host freinds, no one wants the pay every month for songs they may not need or want model.

Think about the stupidity of this... Why should someone pay $99 (or whatever it is) per month for songs that they already own, just to be able to download a $3 song. And, based on their new releases for November & January, they will not get sung. No one has ever asked to sing any of those titles. Even the popular XO by Kelsea Ballerini, which I have from Karaoke Version, doesn't get sang.

Yes, I'll stick to getting Zoom's Pop Chart Picks which comes out every other month. Where you can get around 40 tracks for around $15.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:21 am 
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Alan B wrote:
jclaydon wrote:
Given the currently poor response i'm seeing from talking to all my host freinds, no one wants the pay every month for songs they may not need or want model.

Think about the stupidity of this... Why should someone pay $99 (or whatever it is) per month for songs that they already own, just to be able to download a $3 song. And, based on their new releases for November & January, they will not get sung. No one has ever asked to sing any of those titles. Even the popular XO by Kelsea Ballerini, which I have from Karaoke Version, doesn't get sang.

Yes, I'll stick to getting Zoom's Pop Chart Picks which comes out every other month. Where you can get around 40 tracks for around $15.


First of all, it's $10 for 5 songs which makes it $2/song which is CHEAPER than any download site currently is.

Secondly, given the Sony lawsuit Zoom may not be in business much longer.

Thirdly read my other post for why subcriptions can be a good thing


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:53 am 
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jclaydon wrote:
First of all, it's $10 for 5 songs which makes it $2/song which is CHEAPER than any download site currently is.

if they were usable needed songs, sure. but there have been 3 releases with a total of 2 needed songs, which is $30 plus the $25 "please let me play your music" fee, which makes it $17.50 per song.

jclaydon wrote:
Secondly, given the Sony lawsuit Zoom may not be in business much longer.

let's say you are right (which you are not because they can still sell to 99% of the world), that still leaves others like Party Tyme (which released Diamonds & Rust before SC did), Sunfly, SBI, and karaoke Version (which released Stronger Than Me right as SC did) and it's still a non issue...worse yet for your argument, that now makes 1 needed track (Styx) so now we are up to $55 for one song.

jclaydon wrote:
Thirdly read my other post for why subcriptions can be a good thing

you are missing one big point in your post, SC has a handfull of "subscribers", Karaoke Version has tens of thousands of customers worldwide which makes new production easier and more cost effective because they sell to people who want the tracks. Same thing goes with Karaoke.net, Sunfly, SBI, etc. all a subscription does is make me pay for songs i don't want, need, or would use. we have given them our lists of songs for at least 5 years now and they ignored us.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:03 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:24 pm 
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Soundchoice is good quality. I myself still have an investment in 180 Soundchoice spotlight disks along with a full Gem set.

I like their idea of "BONUS disks" $99 one time fee for the 3 disks. To me this was smart marketing.

1) The $10/monthly plan for just a handful of songs is really stupid.
I'd rather "BUY" the track and pay $5.00/song (so if you produce at least 2 songs per month, you still get my $10.00 or more.
2) I'd feel pretty dumb if I continued to pay $10.00/monthly and no new tracks get produced for months at a time. "NO Guarantee"

So yes! as a die hard customer and supporter of Soundchoice for the last 30 years, I'm sorry but I'm not buying into this crappy marketing tactic at this time.

TWO THUMBS DOWN for marketing skills.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:36 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:16 pm 
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So far what they've released I would have bought 1, just to have a graphics version only - and even that song was only sang by 3 people (myself included). Absolutely no desire to have the unknown (or up and comings) and everything else has been released elsewhere and still have yet to have anyone ask for them. Diamonds and Rust got done a couple times and they sang from the acoustic version.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:08 pm 
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A Shot In The Dark hits the Foot Again.

I don't get it. To me PEP seems so out of touch that maybe they should consider running for Office.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:50 am 
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Q: Does anyone here really need SC tracks to run a successful show?
A: No. If you do, you're not a very good KJ.

Yes, ladies & gentlemen, you do not need SC to be successful. If you think you do, your hosting skills should be addressed.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:11 am 
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Alan B, most of us have been buying/using the soundchoice brand disks since the late eighties and some of us still buy the sc disks. My main choices I offer singers is DK, SC, CB and KV tracks. I have a few MM but do not use them as much.

Yes anyone can still do a professional show without SC tracks but in the long term and i've proved it to myself in many area's of the world that when you go to a karaoke bar, you will see that soundchoice track being played before any others.

I'm sure we both can agree that the monthly subscription for "new tracks" is just stupid though.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:55 pm 
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karaokeniagarafalls wrote:
I'm sure we both can agree that the monthly subscription for "new tracks" is just stupid though.

Totally agree. And that's why unless the new tracks are offered as individual downloads with no strings attached, I will never buy any new music from SC.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:24 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
karaokeniagarafalls wrote:
I'm sure we both can agree that the monthly subscription for "new tracks" is just stupid though.

Totally agree. And that's why unless the new tracks are offered as individual downloads with no strings attached, I will never buy any new music from SC.

I hear ya Alan! I feel the exact same way. I rather give my business to the other companies that offer single song downloads, AND as you mentioned it doesn't come with any strings attached!!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:25 pm 
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The truth is many of us just don't NEED a subscription....

It's better for me to just cherry pick stuff I need at this point, as PEP doesn't wish to offer that service, I have no need to buy anything from them.

As for actual subscription using businesses:
1) Bang for the buck: How many useful tracks does the service offer?
It's great if a service has niche songs, but if most of my people sing "Don't stop Believing", is it worth getting that niche song that might get used once/year?

2) How many different services can I afford for my business?
I'm sure many business think they should only need to get by with one.

3) By switching over from one subscription to another, how would that affect my business?
If my singers like my catalog, changing over to another company might make them not make them happy.

PEP came late to the game, and subscription people may have already made their choice.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:09 pm 
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karaokeniagarafalls wrote:
Soundchoice is good quality. I myself still have an investment in 180 Soundchoice spotlight disks along with a full Gem set.

I like their idea of "BONUS disks" $99 one time fee for the 3 disks. To me this was smart marketing.

1) The $10/monthly plan for just a handful of songs is really stupid.
I'd rather "BUY" the track and pay $5.00/song (so if you produce at least 2 songs per month, you still get my $10.00 or more.
2) I'd feel pretty dumb if I continued to pay $10.00/monthly and no new tracks get produced for months at a time. "NO Guarantee"

So yes! as a die hard customer and supporter of Soundchoice for the last 30 years, I'm sorry but I'm not buying into this crappy marketing tactic at this time.

TWO THUMBS DOWN for marketing skills.


I'm passing this along to Brian, because I happen to agree with you.. I'm trying to get PEP to compromise on downloads at least partly.. But so far no luck


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:04 am 
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jclaydon wrote:

I'm passing this along to Brian, because I happen to agree with you.. I'm trying to get PEP to compromise on downloads at least partly.. But so far no luck

Pass this along, too...

1. Most established KJ's who have been hosting for many years, have a complete library. They don't want or need a subscription. They just want to be able to download individual tracks with "no strings attached", the same way that SBI, Karaoke Version, Karaoke.net, and sunfly does it.

2. By doing what you're doing, you are alienating the people who have legally purchased your music and supported you throughout the years. The reward for that is "getting the shaft".

Yes, Sound Choice does make a quality product and I do use Sound Choice music that I have purchased but what you're doing now is just wrong.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:08 am 
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Unless I can get the new songs at my shows as my singers request them, I won't buy them. I am no longer willing to get a 15 song disc for just one or two songs that get requested. It's a total waste of money. At this point I only have 334 SC songs on my system and that's all I will ever have as I am not buying any more discs and I am not going to be wasting money on the subscription when I can get the songs that I want elsewhere even though I may have to wait for the others to come out with them as I request them. Lately I've been lucky to get at least one of the SC content from another source. Is it Sound Choice, no but the quality of the song is totally comparable and sound exactly the same.

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