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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:18 am 
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KSFGROUP wrote:
I just have to say that after listening to lots of the songs I see on the list so far.... I AM SO STOKED! I mean c'mon... I feel stupid that I haven't heard some of the gems (no pun intended) you have on here and the one's I do know - I am stunned they are not available.

Looks like we are going to make everybody happy - You - Me- Our Rock Studio :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:



So, what does KSF stand for. Hopefully not Kurt Slep Foundation, or something like that. LOL

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:35 pm 
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Karaoke Service Finland

We are working on Sabbath songs from our list and it has raised the question about staying true to the original. War Pigs is 7:54 long.

I understand the argument that you should maintain the integrity of the original...but where do you draw the line on a song like this?

Thoughts please?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:32 pm 
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KSFGROUP wrote:
Karaoke Service Finland

We are working on Sabbath songs from our list and it has raised the question about staying true to the original. War Pigs is 7:54 long.

I understand the argument that you should maintain the integrity of the original...but where do you draw the line on a song like this?

Thoughts please?

if it were up to me, I would ban every song over 6 minutes from karaoke. But i'm probably in the minority


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:34 pm 
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I have no problem with a song like War Pigs. On slow nights, long songs are a good thing. People like to hear War Pigs. At least at my shows, nobody has a problem with the occasional playing of War Pigs, even on a busy night. Besides, if you use a computer, the software can be made to fade the song out, where ever you want it to.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:37 pm 
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I would LOVE to sing Dogs, from Pink Floyd, 17 minutes is a bit long. Of course, if you cut out all the guitar parts.......

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:38 pm 
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I'm all about the song being as close to the original as possible, and have no issue with long songs. I also would love to have the entire version of Dogs!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:47 pm 
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what about the option of both? SF has November Rain in the radio version, and the full version. you just decide which one you want to buy. not sure how licensing go along with that, but it could take away the "what if" aspect by just offering both if its possible and everyone is happy.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:32 am 
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That could work, too.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:58 am 
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KSFGROUP wrote:
Karaoke Service Finland

We are working on Sabbath songs from our list and it has raised the question about staying true to the original. War Pigs is 7:54 long.

I understand the argument that you should maintain the integrity of the original...but where do you draw the line on a song like this?

Thoughts please?
Well... if you look at some other Artists' songs that are already out in Karaoke format (Meatloaf comes to mind, and his songs are all in the 9 minute range), 8 minutes is not that big of a deal for just one or two songs. Since I mentioned Meatloaf, I would like to point out that the UK companies have cut the song PBTDBL, by removing the spoken/narrator part, whereas the American companies reproduced the entire song. As for how the KJs feel about the song being cut vs the full version, we've had discussions in this forum about that, and the opinions on that were pretty much down the middle.

Another example that I can give you (just for one particular song) is between 2 American companies: "Come Sail Away" by Styx. Sound Choice reproduced the entire song (which includes something like a 50 measure musical interlude) making the song about 2 minutes longer, whereas Music Maestro (an off-key version at that) cut that intermission out. Personally, I prefer the fuller version of this song (which has nothing to do with how (IMO) poorly MM reproduced the song).

It can be up to the KJ to decide if he/she wants to include songs of that length in his/her library or not. Some KJs love to have a few longer songs performed at their shows because it gives them a chance to go to the bathroom, or sit down for a few minutes, or have a smoke, or socialize a little with some of the regulars, etc...

Based on the extended length of "Dogs," the KJ could tell the singer that if he/she chooses to sing that song, it will count as 2 turns and he/she will be excluded from the next rotation (of course, if it's the last rotation, the KJ could just tell the person to pick another song because they're near the end of the night and others won't get a chance to sing if you allow that to be done).


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:06 am 
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I like the idea of having the "original" version as well as a "radio" version that is closer to the 4 minute mark.

On nights where I believe "War Pigs" will be a little iffy, I simply speed up the tempo. At the fastest tempo mark (in Karma), it shortens "War Pigs" from 7:54 to 6:34.

Of course I don't think I have ever let the song finish anyway since letting the outro play through is like adding 2:30 in filler music. When the "singing" stops, I thank them then start fading it out......

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:17 am 
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The same can be said for "Hotel California".

SC does the whole song with the 2.5 minute outro but Zoom published a "short" version without the outro.

I don't mind the long songs either. I usually discourage them in the last hour of the show, especially if there is a long list of singers waiting.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:48 pm 
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chrisavis wrote:
Of course I don't think I have ever let the song finish anyway since letting the outro play through is like adding 2:30 in filler music. When the "singing" stops, I thank them then start fading it out......


MtnKaraoke wrote:
The same can be said for "Hotel California".

SC does the whole song with the 2.5 minute outro but Zoom published a "short" version without the outro.


Actually, Zoom put out 2 versions of "Hotel California"... 1 without the outro, and one with. And, I have done the same thing that Chris mentioned with "Hotel California." I have faded the music out when the singer finished, rather than let the music play for 2 more minutes to an empty space where the Singer has already left the stage.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:25 pm 
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War Pigs, at fastest karma tempo would sound ridiculous. It would just be WAY too fast.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:44 pm 
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Just thought of one......................Pigs (Three Different Ones) - Pink Floyd!!


Did anyone mention

Murder - David Gilmour
There's No Way Out Of Here - David Gilmour

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Last edited by Smoothedge69 on Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:00 am 
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KSFGROUP wrote:
Karaoke Service Finland

We are working on Sabbath songs from our list and it has raised the question about staying true to the original. War Pigs is 7:54 long.

I understand the argument that you should maintain the integrity of the original...but where do you draw the line on a song like this?

Thoughts please?
i have both a shortened version from Dangerous and the full version from Karaoke Version, some prfer the short others do the long. I personally like the song to remain true to the album as much as possible,

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:05 am 
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I think In A Gadda Vida full version may be pushing the envelope too, but would like to see a version that has the full verse lines before and after the instrumental but shorten the instrumental up considerably.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:36 am 
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jclaydon wrote:
KSFGROUP wrote:
Karaoke Service Finland

We are working on Sabbath songs from our list and it has raised the question about staying true to the original. War Pigs is 7:54 long.

I understand the argument that you should maintain the integrity of the original...but where do you draw the line on a song like this?

if it were up to me, I would ban every song over 6 minutes from karaoke. But i'm probably in the minority

Everyone knows that I would even go further with "no songs over 5 minutes". There are no songs that exceed 5 min and 20 sec (5 min for song, and 10 silence intro, and 10 sec silence outro) in my books.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:57 am 
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The longer songs don't get sung very often at my shows, so I have no problem with them. And as someone else said, they are good for bathroom breaks, fresh air breaks (since I am not a smoker), and just a chance to go around and talk to people.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:12 am 
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We had a "Longest Song" night at one of my shows, and it was one of the busiest nights I've ever had. People came out in droves to sing their one song :D. So we don't mind them so much in my neck of the woooooooooooooooooo.....ds.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:38 am 
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rogerniner wrote:
We had a "Longest Song" night at one of my shows, and it was one of the busiest nights I've ever had. People came out in droves to sing their one song

So... what song won?


Last edited by cueball on Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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