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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:23 pm 
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dvdgdry wrote:
No definitive answer.


My answer was pretty definitive.

The basic principles are these:

(1) You can't do more with space-shifted copies than you could do with discs.
(2) If you're using something other than discs, you need to clear it with us.
(3) We will accommodate pretty much anything as long as the first two principles are followed.

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Since there has been some confusion:
1. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Statements I make here about legal issues are for informational purposes only.
2. I am an officer of Phoenix Entertainment Partners, but my opinions on matters not involving Phoenix's business are my own and may not reflect the opinions of the company.
3. If you have questions you'd like answered officially, you are welcome to email me at jim@phxep.com or send me a private message here.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:51 pm 
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JimHarrington wrote:
We would not have a problem with a central server system that locked out the contents of any selected disc from other locations for the balance of that night, as long as that setup were fully disclosed to us.


What law or statute gives SC/PEP/SCE the right for a full disclosure? And for an entire list of tracks on a single CDG? I am not saying that there is not one. I would simply like to be enlightened.

Also, I do not have before me as my disks are in a secure place, what is the exact wording sold with each copy of a SC CDG?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:33 pm 
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dvdgdry wrote:
JimHarrington wrote:
We would not have a problem with a central server system that locked out the contents of any selected disc from other locations for the balance of that night, as long as that setup were fully disclosed to us.


What law or statute gives SC/PEP/SCE the right for a full disclosure? And for an entire list of tracks on a single CDG? I am not saying that there is not one. I would simply like to be enlightened.


Since that kind of setup reflects the application of our trademark to a new good we did not make, in a manner that, without our permission, is likely to cause consumer confusion as to our sponsorship or approval of the goods and associated services, we have the right to set the terms on which we would approve that activity, or not, as the case may be. Our conditions require full disclosure of the setup.

dvdgdry wrote:
Also, I do not have before me as my disks are in a secure place, what is the exact wording sold with each copy of a SC CDG?


I think you might be referring to "Unauthorized duplication, public performance, or broadcast is a violation of applicable laws."

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Since there has been some confusion:
1. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Statements I make here about legal issues are for informational purposes only.
2. I am an officer of Phoenix Entertainment Partners, but my opinions on matters not involving Phoenix's business are my own and may not reflect the opinions of the company.
3. If you have questions you'd like answered officially, you are welcome to email me at jim@phxep.com or send me a private message here.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:31 pm 
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Mr Harrington,

I have another question that may have already been answered somewhere but I do not know the answer to.

Where does anything legal say that a host may not break up tracks on a CDG for use with simultaneous operations though not sharing the same track?

You know, I can see the Big Big Dogs getting pissed if hosts were to stream their libraries. The host has no contract with them, whereas a Karaoke Streaming Service does, I assume. I'm seeing SC/PEP/SCE have that same issue and issue for other reason. All reasons give validity for the advent of Karaoke Jukes of which I believe is why PEP will never produce another track, rather expending energy to go after Venues using FEAR tactics of litigation while offering a buyout to enter into a contractual agreement for SCE to be their entertainment manager. Why the Fnot? I agree with Chip that it is an extortion of sorts by either using or misusing law. But then again, that's the crux of why attorneys have a job, huh? For SCE it may work in a few years with larger venues and even food serving venues. You just have to start small to garner a footprint. This same type of business model is beginning to happen in the Real Estate field with a National Corporation setting up their agents to show a house working strictly by the hour instead of commissions.

This whole karaoke thing is destined to change with a technology that forever evolves. I remember it being 'girlish' to text or to take selfies on a cell phone. Seems like everyone is coming around to it though.

I still have the ?s up above.

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I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:01 pm 
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Quote:
likely to cause consumer confusion as to our sponsorship or approval of the goods and associated services


Bullshit..
I drive a Ford, and they are not confused about my approval or sponsorship.
So, I say, NOT Likely..

:mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:32 pm 
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I use plenty of products, in my life, that nobody wonders if I am affiliated with the company in question. As a matter of fact, I use Karoke.net songs, Karaoke Version songs, and a host of other brands, and NOBODY has ever thought that I was part of, or represented those companies. Harrington, you are full of it, and just making excuses to continue your lawsuit machine. It's time to move on to other things. Time to get out of the Karaoke business. You have all lost your way. You had a good run, but it is LONG over.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:27 am 
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jdmeister wrote:
Quote:
likely to cause consumer confusion as to our sponsorship or approval of the goods and associated services


Bullshit..
I drive a Ford, and they are not confused about my approval or sponsorship.
So, I say, NOT Likely..

:mrgreen:

I have to agree there, i've used Sound Choice along with almost EVERY other brand out there and not ONCE (in 25+years) did someone mistakenly think I was affiliated in any way with any of the brands I use since EVERY kj in the world use almost the same brands. SC along with every other brand is simply a manufacturer of music that gets used by kj's. The ONLY thing that gets questioned is why the songs I use are typically better than some of the other places in which my generic answer is "it's like going to see a cover band, some will sound just like the original while others will make you question what song they are trying to recreate". I make no mention of brands or manufacturers in my answer, but do try to educate them on why certain songs sound better usually in full band recreations vs keyboard synthesized creations. 99 out of 100 times, the singer can't even tell me what brand the version they didn't like was - I had a girl tonight that was 86'd from our club for 3 months was allowed back in and said almost everywhere she went the music was totally different than what she was used to and couldn't sing it - oddly enough MOST of her material that she was used to at our show was mostly SBI/Karaoke Version & Sybersounds. While brand may have played a role a few years back (10 or so) where singers would ask for specific brands (any brand), today it's not so often I get brand specific requests - and on the rare occasion I do, the high majority of brand requestors are kj's from other shows that come in.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:41 am 
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Lonman wrote:
oddly enough MOST of her material that she was used to at our show was mostly SBI/Karaoke Version & Sybersounds. While brand may have played a role a few years back (10 or so) where singers would ask for specific brands (any brand), today it's not so often I get brand specific requests - and the high majority of brand requestors are kj's from other shows that come in.

Harrington REFUSES to believe this. He still believes that everyone is requesting SC, like they did in the old days. My crowds mostly sing newer stuff. So, there is no need to ask for SC, since they have no newer stuff. Then my Veteran Club singers ask for DK, mostly.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:32 am 
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jdmeister wrote:
Quote:
likely to cause consumer confusion as to our sponsorship or approval of the goods and associated services


Bullshit..
I drive a Ford, and they are not confused about my approval or sponsorship.
So, I say, NOT Likely..

:mrgreen:

Agreed JD.
there has not been and never will be confusion based on a logo.
no one thinks i am sponsored by or am affiliated in any way with Gibson
No one thinks i am sponsored by or am affiliated in any way with Sennheiser
a stretch is going light on this....

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:09 am 
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jdmeister wrote:
Quote:
likely to cause consumer confusion as to our sponsorship or approval of the goods and associated services


Bullshit..
I drive a Ford, and they are not confused about my approval or sponsorship.
So, I say, NOT Likely..

:mrgreen:


Presumably the Ford you drive was actually built by Ford, so there's no possibility of confusion.

If you were in the business of selling cars and you put the Ford logo on cars that you built yourself by copying Ford's designs, do you think people might be confused into thinking that you were actually selling Fords and not something you put together yourself?

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Since there has been some confusion:
1. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Statements I make here about legal issues are for informational purposes only.
2. I am an officer of Phoenix Entertainment Partners, but my opinions on matters not involving Phoenix's business are my own and may not reflect the opinions of the company.
3. If you have questions you'd like answered officially, you are welcome to email me at jim@phxep.com or send me a private message here.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:10 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
jdmeister wrote:
Quote:
likely to cause consumer confusion as to our sponsorship or approval of the goods and associated services


Bullshit..
I drive a Ford, and they are not confused about my approval or sponsorship.
So, I say, NOT Likely..

:mrgreen:

Agreed JD.
there has not been and never will be confusion based on a logo.
no one thinks i am sponsored by or am affiliated in any way with Gibson
No one thinks i am sponsored by or am affiliated in any way with Sennheiser
a stretch is going light on this....


Are you using real Gibson and Sennheiser equipment, or is it stuff you built yourself and put their logos on?

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Since there has been some confusion:
1. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Statements I make here about legal issues are for informational purposes only.
2. I am an officer of Phoenix Entertainment Partners, but my opinions on matters not involving Phoenix's business are my own and may not reflect the opinions of the company.
3. If you have questions you'd like answered officially, you are welcome to email me at jim@phxep.com or send me a private message here.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:14 am 
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And that's the point. If you're not using originals, you're using something you made yourself, not our product.

We're not saying you can't use it.

We're saying that if you want to use it, we need to make sure you bought the original and that the copies you made are of an acceptable quality. In any other field, this would not be controversial.

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Since there has been some confusion:
1. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Statements I make here about legal issues are for informational purposes only.
2. I am an officer of Phoenix Entertainment Partners, but my opinions on matters not involving Phoenix's business are my own and may not reflect the opinions of the company.
3. If you have questions you'd like answered officially, you are welcome to email me at jim@phxep.com or send me a private message here.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:05 am 
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IF I PUT CAMARO BADGES ALL OVER MY CLASSIC '66 MUSTANG; there's not a thing that GM or FORD can do about it.... just like PEP can't stop people from removing their badges from their karaoke tracks. Once you buy something; it is yours to customize as you please. If PEP doesn't want there to be any confusion; a KJ removes any and all confusion by removing any offending logos and changing the colors and the fonts of any songs in question.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Karaoke Croaker wrote:
IF I PUT CAMARO BADGES ALL OVER MY CLASSIC '66 MUSTANG; there's not a thing that GM or FORD can do about it....


If you put Camaro badges all over your classic '66 Mustang, then use that Camaro-badged Mustang commercially, then yes, GM could sue you and, depending on the circumstances of the case, probably win that lawsuit.

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Since there has been some confusion:
1. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Statements I make here about legal issues are for informational purposes only.
2. I am an officer of Phoenix Entertainment Partners, but my opinions on matters not involving Phoenix's business are my own and may not reflect the opinions of the company.
3. If you have questions you'd like answered officially, you are welcome to email me at jim@phxep.com or send me a private message here.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:05 pm 
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I call BULL%&IT on that one. If I own a bar called The Mustang Ranch and I park that car out front of my place of business; I defy anyone to suit me over the CAMARO Badges on my Mustang that advertises my bar. Once I buy that Mustang; I can modify it in any way that I like.... just like I can do with any karaoke track that I buy. Ford got their money when the car was sold the first time; just like Sound Choice got paid when they sold a disc to it's original purchaser. If that original purchaser wants to remove the SC Logo from his tracks; that should be his prerogative and it seems like the district courts feel the same way when it comes to your logo. It's a worthless add-on that confuses no one whether it's there or not. There are kits out there that allow you to convert and old VW Bug into a Ferrari looking vehicle. Nothing illegal about it. If I buy a Sound Choice disc, I can change the content in as many ways as I like. I have many Sound Choice tracks where the graphics are in a dark Blue color on a Black Background. I can barely make out the difference between the Blue and the Black which makes these tracks unusable for me. I'd love to see a judge and jury find me in violation of some PEP rule that says I can't change the Blue letters to White letters so I can actually use what I paid for. I certainly believe that I would have the court of public opinion on my side.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:54 am 
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Harrington, we would ALL be confusing people with all the brands we use, if what you are saying were the case. I use a TON of KV. NOBODY thinks that I work for them, or represent them in any way, shape or form. I use plenty of DK, that I HAVE converted from disc. NOBODY thinks that I am affiliated with them. I have Radio Starz and Music Maestro, and some SGB, (although, I have been phasing them out, little by little), all converted from disc, and NOBODY thinks that I am affiliated with those companies.

There is no confusion. That is some wacky crap that you and your boss came up with to drive your lawsuit machine, and as a way to make MORE money off the people you made money off of already!! THAT is why we are tired of it. That is why you are hated, (not you, personally), so much in the industry. YOU have poisoned the company you work for with this petty nonsense. A logo does not create confusion.

I have been singing Karaoke, FAR longer than I have been running it. I have dealt with MANY MANY KJs over the years. NOT ONE, have I EVER thought worked for any of the Karaoke manufacturers, or represented them, in any way!! NOT A SINGLE ONE, regardless of what form their music was in. I thought, "Oh good, they have the song I want to sing.".

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:08 am 
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Sound WHO???...... WHAT Choice??? Nobody gives a damn!!!

There is a completely different generation of singers out there, that aren't up on brand names. They only care if you have the songs that they wish to sing. It doesn't matter to them what company produced it.

This dead horse has been kicked long enough!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:57 am 
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BT Magic wrote:
Sound WHO???...... WHAT Choice??? Nobody gives a damn!!!

There is a completely different generation of singers out there, that aren't up on brand names. They only care if you have the songs that they wish to sing. It doesn't matter to them what company produced it.

This dead horse has been kicked long enough!


Problem is, they're going to continue to sue venues and users as long as they're displaying the SC trademark without their permission.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:21 pm 
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My buddy Bishop Morgan, a retired Navy veteran, enjoys the Cadillac line.
Even when he bought a Toyota truck, he plastered it with Cad emblems..
(Yes, he has Cads also.)
So far, so good..


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:59 pm 
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jdmeister wrote:
My buddy Bishop Morgan, a retired Navy veteran, enjoys the Cadillac line.
Even when he bought a Toyota truck, he plastered it with Cad emblems..
(Yes, he has Cads also.)
So far, so good..


Is he selling non-Cadillac autos as Cadillacs, as a commercial activity?

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Since there has been some confusion:
1. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Statements I make here about legal issues are for informational purposes only.
2. I am an officer of Phoenix Entertainment Partners, but my opinions on matters not involving Phoenix's business are my own and may not reflect the opinions of the company.
3. If you have questions you'd like answered officially, you are welcome to email me at jim@phxep.com or send me a private message here.


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