Karaoke Forums

I was looking at Chartbuster's Become a certified KJ page and noticed "The annual cost for application to the program is $199 for each system that the KJ/hosting service operates."

Did I miss this info before or is this something new?

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

So you buy the disc first, THEN "get to pay to apply" for an audit?

This is getting more assinine by the minute...

Tell me about it, but that $199 is for certified program and you pay that annually.

I just over the past few months decided I wanted to go from just doing karaoke at home to trying to get some gigs. Since then I've been working on organizing my disks (majority purchased from other KJ's and in seperate cases).

Just this past week I've spent another $1,000 on CD's that'll be in tomorrow so I get to continue ripping, updating song book, renaming files, etc... I'm 100% 1:1 (mostly CB) with about 5500 songs if I include tomorrows shipment. I have yet to even do a show, but at this rate my library may be up for sale soon minus some disks I want to keep for personal use.

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

This is something new, but I think it has something to do with people who have setup audits and then not shown up or logged on line to do them. If someone is willing to pay a fee to become certified then they will more than likely be serious about it and won't be wasting everyone's time. You are talking about a cost that is less than one show a year, not that big of a deal when you consider how much some KJs spend on advertising and this gets you advertising on a national level. And I think being recertified/audited every year is a good thing.

There is NO requirement that every KJ be certified or even audited, Chartbuster nor anyone else is saying that you MUST go through an audit to conduct business. And if they file a suit against you I don't think there would be any charge to have an audit done by them have your name dropped from the suit, you just wouldn't make the certified list.

I would like to see a more prominent link on the Chartbuster site for the Certified KJs.

Yeah I had trouble finding it and just went to the KIAA website and used their link to the KJ World page and found it from there.

I can understand the frustration of setting up an audit and having their time wasted, but why don't they do something like require a credit card # that they can verify and if you don't make the scheduled audit they then charge you for your card as a penalty.

Just seems like one more obstacle for someone that is trying to get into the business and preventing them from becoming a legit kj and repeat customer for manus. This will be a side venture for me and prolonged a while longer I guess

So Thunder on or before the anniversary date of your audit you'll be sending them $199?
If they sent you a notice stating that in order to be in their certified KJ program they're going to need $199 from you now or they're removing you from their list, you'd send them the money?

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

Really?!? In order to legally use CB's tracks in mp3 format I need written permission from CB, and How do I get that? By going through their audit.

Good thing I didn't sell my dual disk player and have a nice SKB case for my discs.

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

Curious if anyone on here that is on their Certified list got a notification of the annual fee to be in the program?

If you guys/gals weren't notified of the change and it's not very prominent on their website how is the general public to know about the certification program or anyone looking to get into the business to know what to do or what's going on?

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

Well yes that would be the case! You can pay for an audit to be on their "certified list" or do an audit for free if they ever file an intent to sue against you, either way you will be covered. To me it is just the cost of business, the same as paying my taxes, putting gas in my vehicles etc.. But really the closest comparision is to that of the insurance that I pay, I pay insurance for my vehicles and liability insurance for my business so that if I have an accident I am covered, all the while hoping I never have an accident, this is not only insurance it is also advertisement.

Or as you said just simply use the CDGs in their standard form.

I get the whole value of being on the list, I really do. The web traffic alone from their site is worth more than the the money spent.

I'm just frustrated with it all right now, and it seems just when I have the majority of it figured out something changes and with little notification to no notification. I'm on their newsletter and I get their promotional stuff about buying product, but have yet to see any info about piracy, certified KJ lists, their expectations of using their products commercially etc...

Again just frustrated...

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

Hi I'm Ford!


I changed my mind, all those trucks I sold the public that are being used in business, I didn't approve!!! That's my trademark going out in public, for business!!

I demand all ford truck owners pay me $199 a year!!!

/sarcasm

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

Not quite the same thing Toqer.
i got the audit, but i see the other side of this as well. i know it was not intended to be this way, but it can easily be taken as old Chicago politics.
pay for and get the audit, or not. but it would be a shame if you got named in a suit because i do not have your name on the audited list.
but if KIAA gets rolling, that is only $75.00 a year and covers all 3 manus.
i just think this will make more people not get the audits if they now have to pay for it.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I don't quite understand. If CB doesn't want us showing their logo why not just take it out? Seems like just free advertising for them.

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Okay, who took my pants?

None of the Manu's are saying anything about those of us who are still Disc-Based KJ's (such as myself), and they're not offering any notices of Authenticity to us either.

Since I am not seeing any changes to who is being hired to host a show, WHY would one even consider paying $199 for what appears to be a worthless piece of paper? Thunder mentions that one benefit is that you get free advertising on CB's site.... WHOOPIE!!!!!!!!!! I've said this before, and I'll say it again.... To effectively advertise on the Internet, people need to know where to find your ad. Internet searches are ONLY as good as the person who is doing the search. If they don't know what they're looking for, they're not going to find you. I don't know about you (I mean all of you here in K-Scene), but when I plan a vacation to another State, I go ONLINE to search for places where I can find Kararoke. One thing that I don't do (when I am searching) is check out the Manu websites (such as SC, PS, CB, Stellar, etc...) to see if they have shows listed. I also do not use this site (K-Scene) to search either, because many KJ's that I know of, do not use this site or the Manu sites.

Thunder.... Let me ask you this.... If I do a seach for Karaoke in VA, am I going to find a link to CB's website where you might be listed as a certified KJ (if you pay the $199 to them)? And, do you think the average Karaoke Singer (those who just want to go out and sing wherever they can find a show, and who could care less whether a KJ is legit or not) is going to care?

Cue,

It's not about the singer it is about the venue that hires you!

If I am a venue and I want a certified kJ to run a show in my establishment how would I go about finding one?

First I would google "Certified Karaoke Host" and this is what pops up http://search.mywebsearch.com/mywebsear ... QSKeQOujuA

Then I would click one one of the links pertaining to certified Karaoke Host and this http://www.chartbusterkaraoke.com/about-kjs or this http://www.soundchoicestore.com/certifi ... pg-69.html pops up, and I scroll down the list to see what "certified KJs" there are in VA, I find 3 on Chartbusters site and 5 on Sound Choice's site. Now I have 5 KJs who I know are in fact legal that I can work with. As a Bar owner I am looking to have a weekly show and I am willing to pay top dollar for that from a legal host.

So as a host contacted by this venue I tell them I will do their show for $300 a night and a deal is struck that show nets me $15,600 for the year, it is well worth the $199 or $400 or even $600 I paid to have that information available to that venue owner.

We are talking about less than 1.5%, and that is just for the one show, let's say you have more than one venue hook up with you through either website, then the percentage drops well down below 1%, I work for booking agents who take a 15% cut of the take for one show.

Will it discourage people from taking the audit and becoming certified, the answer is probably Yes! Personally I don't think that is a bad thing because it will make it a much more exclusive list to be on!

Thunder,

OK, what you wrote makes sense to a point. BUT, why would a Venue even be looking specifically for a Certified KJ unless they had received one of those letters from SC in the past (or some KJ came in to solicite his services and mentioned all of this about being legal)? If they received those letters about piracy, then they already have the information at their fingertips to look up SC's or CB's websites to see who is legit (based on those who bought the GEM Series or passed an audit). So, the (free) advertising (that you mention) is already out there (without you having to pay that $199). As discussed in past topic threads, most of the Venues don't care who they hire. Has this changed now (in view of all the threats of lawsuits out that have been cropping up).... I couldn't say.

One other point (which I mentioned in my past post)... None of the Manu's are saying anything about those of us who are still Disc-Based KJ's (such as myself), and they're not offering any notices of Authenticity or Certified letters to us either.

Big IF.

Ascap/BMI/Sesac/Soundexchange have it granted as a congressional right. It is the law. There is no question that you have to pay those fee's.

There is no law concerning the karaoke manu's. I'm not giving them a dime.

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

IF the KIAA really wanted to get rolling.

They'd ask us all to start writing congress.

_________________
Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

Actually two of the Host listed on the sites are disc based and went through an audit!

As for the venues receiving the letters or something of the sort there are many ofr us who are pumping out the piracy information pacts as fast as we can to venues all around the country (even mailing them to venues that are too far for us to travel too), so they are being informed! And again where will they look for a "certified KJ" right where the info pact tells them to look, which is on the Sound Choice or Chartbuster sites.

So again being on the site as a certified KJ has it's advantages regardless of the cost!

How ridiculous. The only certification that the cheerleaders here deserve is "Certified Gullible."

In colloquial terms, a "certification" is associated with specialized education and training. In this case however, there is NO education of ANY kind as well as absolutely NO training whatsoever.

I think I'll drop by a Ford dealer in my Bronco and become a "CERTIFIED FORD DRIVER" and while I'm at it, I'll drop by a Honda dealer in my Civic and become a "CERTIFIED HONDA OPERATOR" and since I'm out and about anyway, I'll stop by Chrysler in my minivan and become an "AUTHORIZED AND VETTED CHRYSLER PILOT."

I no longer own a Toyota so I guess I've sort of lost that certification if I was audited today....

This "certification" that you seem to treasure so much has absolutely NOTHING to do with your talent or skill as a host or your ability to attract and keep enough patrons at any establishment to make the form of entertainment profitable for the venue. You're using this false credential as nothing more than a continuation of the manufacturers' task of selling fear to venues.

In the meantime, these same cheerleaders are ignoring the fact that the very manufacturers they are supporting with this crap are the very ones that will eventually put them out of business. These manufacturers aren't interested in eliminating piracy - why won't they understand this? - They are out to "sell more product" and use them as their tools to do so... that's it.

#1. Let's say that in your area, there are 50 KJ's...
#2. Of that 50, we'll call more than half - 35 - are "pirates"
#3. The remaining 15 are "certified KJ's"
#4. SC sues 35 and gets 25 to settle, 10 go out of business
#5. You STILL have 25 formerly "illegal competitors" that are now "certified" and spent FAR LESS on their libraries then you ever did. And the price wars will continue as they can now continue to afford to sell their services cheaper than you.

But you're going to continue to help these manufacturers sell product to work against you? You're flat out stupid or talentless for wasting your time on an endeavor that will not earn you a penny.

I can put "certified" all over my website too and make sure it shows up in a search engine search, but that still won't mean anything. For some reason if you think you have to pay for a yearly certification that it somehow makes it more "real?" Send me $199.00 a year and I'll certify that you're a spectacular host that deserves a Grammy and an Oscar... honest...

A good host doesn't need any kind of "certification" to be successful in this business and anyone who thinks that it gives them some kind of "edge" is simply gullible - no other explanation makes sense. This business doesn't rely on a library of any size or brand whatsoever to be successful - it's all dependent on the host and their abilities.

If you believe that your ability to earn a living is dependent on a brand of library, a current song list or some worthless piece of paper, then you really are certifiably gullible.