Karaoke Forums

The sound choice investigators DO NOT drive pirates out of busines.

The investigations basically catch a pirate and FORCE them to become legit (by buying the GEM series). Once the pirate is sued (and convicted) the pirate KJ is forced to buy the GEM series (and all our legal/collection agency system) can be used to force that purchase.

The pirate is then several thousand dollars poorer but they have a legit set of songs. Of course that former pirate has far less incentive the business now because of their investment. Not only that they have a substantial reason to do as many shows as possible to pay back the costs of the settlement, potentially leading to them undercutting other KJs in price.

Yes fear of investigations might cause a few pirates to quit, but my impression of the situation is that most of the pirates are quite ignorant of how often SC investigates and their real chance of getting an investigation. So yes a few WELL INFORMED pirates might quit out of fear of investigations, but MOST pirates are not "WELL INFORMED".

These less serious KJs that don't spend the effort to educate themselves on the business, are not going to quit out of fear of investigations they dont know about, and they are certainly not going to quit once they are forced to have a substantial investment in Karaoke songs. These KJs are exactly the ones that as serious KJs we are annoyed by because they don't have the interest in the business. Many of these pirates probably would quit in a year or so anyway.


There are exceptions where sometimes a big name KJ who appears to be well informed about the business can be busted by SC but they seem to be the exception to me. I may be wrong but this is my impression.

On the other hand some of the well informed KJs that might have a few pirated songs might put some effort into being more legit (or quit) due to the SC investigations but these better informed (but still partially or completely pirate) are going to usually be far better KJs than the average non-serious pirates. These "better" pirates are probably charging fees far higher than many of the cut-rate karaoke pirates that seem to be what is annoying the KJs trying to make a successful busines.

Many if not most of the cut-rate pirates starting by buying a hard-drive (or downloading from torrents) probably do not even know they are not legit when they start. Some of these KJs (many of whom would quit after 6 months anyway) can be forced to be legit (and longer term) by SC investigations, but will probably still crappy cut rate KJs.

Of course SC knows this by the way that the GEM series is "RENTED" not owned. So a busted pirate probably will not be able to (easily) sell a GEM series that they were forced to buy due to an investigation.

Of couse this may be totally wrong but it could be an non-obvious outcome of the investigations and how it impacts the KJ market.

Hi My name is DrFred.

I'm angry that I have to compete with pirates who don't pay for their songs. I'm angry that the karaoke manu is forcing them to go legit. I would rather see the pirates intestines ripped out, tied around the pirates neck, and flung to overhead live electric wires.

That was a criticism.

Fred if you really want to complain, complain about how your local police, city council, and chamber of commerce have done nothing. SC can't put them in jail, this is the best they can do.

Karaoke pirates steal.

Unless the person who was stolen from (IE the karaoke companies) puts in an accusation there will can be no investigation by the Police/courts. A random person who was not stolen from can't make the accusation in a way that actually will lead to a police investigation without involving the person stolen from.



As for the city council and chamber of commerce they are completely toothless in enforcing such laws without an accusation from an party that was stolen from.

The problem is that SC is willing to settle with pirates as a CIVIL case before trial, and clearly that is what they want, and has no interest in pushing for any criminal penalties except as a threat. For example jail time for the worst of the worst.

The result is a pirate is turned legit, but a pirate is not driven out of business.

SC (or other songmakers) are the only ones that CAN put pirate KJs in JAIL by making an accusation and then either refusing to settle or making the settlement conditions too expensive. THe police, city council and chamber of commerce are powerless in such a situation without an accusation by a violated party.

The sound choice "investigators" would do far more to shut down illegal karaoke if they just sent a mailing to likely illegal KJs, or dropped off an information packet to potentiall ignorant Pirate KJs than doing secret investigations. They could also probably drop off 100s of such information packets for the cost of a single investigation. Such a tactic would probably also have a much bigger impact on the market for illegal KJs.

Of course Most legit KJs are angry that pirates who don't pay for their songs and then compete with us. I just don't agree that SCs tactics will do anything to help the situation. I do not want to put all pirates in Jail, but all the SC investigations do is force the convicted pirates to buy songs at a big discount.

Here the only sympathy I have for Sound Choice is that they have chosen an industry which has refused to go to the law.

The reason they have refused to go to the law is that it is in their financial interest -- or so they believe -- to *avoid* clarification of the criminal and civil statutes that apply. If there were criminal cases brought, it would force clarification of the format-shifting and copyright law. They -- the industry in general being "they" -- don't want that. They prefer to operate in the 1) lower burden of proof and 2) muddiness of civil court.

Basically, they are in an industry that operates by threats and coercion -- by choice. But they want to avoid moving to the model that many other countries have gone to. RIAA, ASCAP, and BMI believe they can maximize their revenue in this way. Who's to say they are wrong? The US certainly leads the world market in music and entertainment.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

sorry just had to respond to this post. I can speak for my little piece of the world only. The SC suits are running pirates out of business here. 2 round hit so far including "my counties" 4 admitted pirates that were not named closed shop. 3 just up and dissappeared and quite a few are running very scared...I can wait till CB comes here as well.
BTW I only use the term pirate to identify another KJ if I have heard from them directly that 1> they own no discs 2> they are part of a disc buying/sharing club or 3> they stopped buying discs and started downloading songs from sharing sites

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

As a KJ that is in an area hit by the Sound Choice Suits (and I hope soon by Chartbuster and Stellar) I can say without a doubt that the suits have have a very profound effect on the pirate operators, many disappeared over night, many dropped all Sound Choice music from their systems and I have now picked up two new venues at a higher rate than ever before. It looks to me like it is having a very positive effect on the areas where the suits have been filed.

So I have to ask Dr Fred and Mickey J, how many suits have been filed in your respective areas?

How many pirates have settled versus how many have disappeared or eliminated Sound Choice music from their systems?

Hmm what do you say about Chartbuster now that they are taking the exact same approach as SC and suing bars & kjs?

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Dr. Fred,

I came up with the same thing. I was all anxious to join the fight and become a "Karaoke Reviewer". They sent me the packet and I quickly learned that this was just as much about selling karaoke disks as it was to combat piracy.

Here is a direct quote from one of the manus in a memo that is called "Piracy Interdiction Policy and Procedures" (Section f, Subsection i.)

"(manu) will negotiate the settlement amount and offer to provide a legitamate prodycr in order to allow them to continue offering (manu's) karaoke tracks".

Also, in another memo called "Karaoke Show Review: Memorandum of Understanding", paragraph 7:

"Under no circumstances is the reviewer to be considered an employee of (manu). No remuneration or compensation from (manu) is offered or implied in exchange for reviewing any venue."

So, I feel as if I am being used under the guise of combating piracy, but the real strategy is for the manu/s to sell more disks. I feel bad for the manus who work hard and invest a lot of their money to make these tracks for the industry. I know they have lost a ton of money. But SO HAVE I! They could offer to include me in the suit, pay me on a contingency basis, or even pay for my gas. Nope.

With that all being said, I just might end up joining the fight after all. I spoke with an attorney who said that if the manu is successful in proving unfair competition in court, I have an excellent chance of doing the same.