Karaoke Forums

Joe,

You did not answer the question.

Are you stating that the producer/publisher will manufacture the product and distribute it on "hard media"? Are you stating that they will hire a sub-contractor or directly invest in a manufacturer of "hard media" to control the distribution of physical copies of their product?

It doesn't make sense to me.

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Never the same show twice!

And, if so, unless it is done by someone not related to the industry in the past, it would almost have to be someone with which whom there has been adversarial legal ramblings in the past...not unheard of, I suppose, but doesn't make for a great PR setting, especially in such an intimate industry, and in today's internet world...

Joe - You are already wrong. All Star Karaoke produces karaoke discs. Party Tyme produces discs (though they may not any longer because their most recent releases are a year + Old). Is there any one else in the US that does? Do you honestly think that some new entity is going to invest capital in a dying technology?

It is entirely possible that the publishers will start release karaoke directly or through a sub, but there is no way either one is going to invest in physical media distribution. The margins aren't there AND the demand for physical media is basically ZERO.

Online Stores. That is how practically all entertainment is and will continue to be distributed.

If you are going to stay in this business another 10 years, Joe, you better learn how to use a PC and some decent karaoke software.

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-Chris

Careful Chris. You'll be labeled a "Troll".

Nope, because Chris is not only correct ( but only in regard to what he posted, though not what I was saying.) , but is not adversarial for the sake of ego.

Unfortunately he just keeps missing what I posted.

I have -several times now - stated that by hard media, I'M NOT NECCESARILY SPEAKING OF DISCS. They may well disappear soon ( though not from my show) . But cards, portable drives, or even something as yet to introduced are not going anywhere for awhile. I would add that these will probably be MP3 as well so which type of delivery makes no difference to me, Chris.

Look, I simply believe the pubs / owners have learned their lessons from their HUGE mistakes, pull all music control back, and start over with a new and PROFITABLE system.

If my way isn't it, at least it is WAY ahead of anything else mentioned here in terms of profitable production.

Thjs may help us or hurt us, but we aren't speaking of US. We are speculating on what the PUBLISHERS / OWNERS will do, and they care about their own best interests, not ours.

They want to make a profit whether it is convenient for us or not.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I'd say that he's not there for the ego, but to inform everyone how much bad information you put out. I try to do the same when appropriate.

In this thread alone, you've made a number of claims all of which have been resoundingly refuted. Instead of admitting your mistake, you soldier on. I will confess, I do find your indefatigability astounding.

If you read the definition of "troll", you'd find -- if you knew what you are doing -- that you are the classic definition of one. I don't think you do know what you are doing, but if you do -- my hat is off to you. You are an astonishly good troll.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Girls, girls, you're both pretty.

Chris is right in that downloads and cloud implementations are the future from a technological standpoint. No one wants media; they want to download or stream karaoke.

But Joe is right that in the immediate future, we are somewhat bound to hard media because (a) American producers are pretty much out of new production and (b) other sources of download licensing, like MCPS in the UK, have excluded the U.S. In order for that to change, it will be necessary for the law to change, for the publishers to change their approach to karaoke, or for some other as-yet-unknown factor to change.

The other thing I wanted to correct in this thread is the perception that record labels will get more involved in karaoke. With a few notable exceptions, record labels do not have any interest in karaoke and would encounter the same licensing difficulties that karaoke producers encounter. Music publishers who own the rights generally lack the facilities to produce tracks and in some cases may be under legal obligations not to engage in music production (such as, for example, a condition of merger). So it's extremely unlikely.

No one is disputing that, but Mission Impossible self-destructing media? Or any investment in a high-cost hardware device? Preposterous. That is the type of intestinal spelunking that we are seeing.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I am not missing it at all. Because.....



I do not believe we will see more than 1 new (or returning) karaoke company distribute on physical media OF ANY KIND. If Digitrax managed to figure out how to distribute via an online store, so can others. We have only seen fewer physical media based companies in the past 5 years. That number has only gone down, never up.

The only possible physical media I can see being used would be MASS storage devices like hard drives or perhaps flash based hard drives so that people can buy very large quantities at a time (as in thousands of songs, not hundreds). Even that I am extremely skeptical about.

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-Chris

not following you here, if they already own the rights to the songs, why would they need to produce tracks, they have already been produced. and for the licensing issues, if they own it, why would they have to license it?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

The record label may own the sound recording, which is the subject of a compulsory license, but they still need sync licensing for karaoke, which means dealing with the publishers.

....and Jim's the one that understood what I meant - not to mention that he thinks I'm pretty too!

Chris, I completely agree with you that streaming and downloads will EVENTUALLY be the future whether my preference or not - most KJs like the convenience.

But that's eventually. First laws and piracy must be handled. Until then, downloads and streaming are a non-profitable enterprise for karaoke production in the U.S. and karaoke producers are not non-profit organizations.

As for publishers / owners' involvement and control, there is no reason that they can't sub-contract actual production to a third party who is in possession of both the equipment and knowledge required.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

...and do you really thing that's ever gonna happen?

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

Piracy cannot be handled. It can only be acknowledged and prosecuted. The laws can be worked around with creative licensing agreements.

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-Chris

No arguement there, Chris, and my point exactly.

I also agree that there will only be one or two producers, though I think they will probably be publisher / owner sub-contractors.

So, disregarding what WE want for a minute, let's concentrate on publishers / owners. What is the best way to ensure that they actually get paid for their product - or at least a good portion of it - as things stand NOW?

Transmitted media of any sort can be hacked by anyone with a PC, internet, and skills from their own home.

Hard media must be in possession, then, after much time and many failures, the copyright protection may eventually be broken. Then it may be ripped and recorded. However, in order for the pirate to at least LOOK legit while working, the new product will have to be put on the flash drives or cards for hosting. Remember, the new product -if out on hard media -would not be allowed to play from a PC. More money out for blanks, recording time, labeling, and distribution.

This is why disc piracy was so miniscule when compared to download piracy.

If there is another option at this time, I just don't know what it is.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

There is no copy protection. The tools to rip are trivial to create and use these days. Hard media will no slow down or prevent piracy in any way.

The way to combat piracy is the make the content available quickly and cheaply in a format people want to use. That automatically precludes hard media from the mix. Cheap, downloadable content will reduce piracy. Nothing will eliminate it.

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-Chris

Give up. He doesn't understand and he won't understand. It is completely obvious to everyone he doesn't have a clue. At this point there is no risk of anyone lending his ramblings any credence.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

This statement is the heart of the matter and it is utterly, and provably untrue. Disc piracy is MASSIVE and has been massive for over a decade. Why do you continually make these things up? Again I remind you: Pop Hits Monthly released hard discs. They were pirated the SAME DAY they were released! Every single month! Practically every SC disc ever made is available if you know where and how to look. Name a brand...ANY brand...and those hard discs are available for the taking. Right now.

Joe, you are simply wrong on this one.

Agree..

As I posted a while back, I witnessed 4 or 5 cases of SGB disks in a garage
in San Pedro.. At that time, no one asked me where.. So one can assume, nobody cares..

Would you be angry if the guy was middle Eastern? He was, and a real scumbag..

And still, he clearly was selling counterfeit disks..

I wonder if his profits supported his terrorist activities?

Both you and Bazza misunderstood me. You by accident, not sure about Bazza.

By disc piracy, I wasn't talking about mass producers / distributors. I was talking about individual KJs.

If a KJ could talk another KJ into copying a library, it would: Take almost forever to do, discs had to be paid for, as well as labeling. Time, materials, etc...

Even copied, said library would cost the copier host many hundreds of dollars.

Now, a KJ just goes on line and steals a track -or several - in moments. No cost, no time, no media to buy, no labels, nothing.

And please - don't sit there and try to say that piracy hasn't increased by thousands-fold since MP3 downloads have become available, because that would be, either just head in the sand, or a complete disconnect from reality, or BS. There is no sane arguement. It happened. Period.

Disc piracy happens, but consider this: I know that GEM discs have been pirated, but no one believed me because it was nowhere near as widespread as the piracy of SC's downloads. Just not worthwhile, even for the appearance of legitimacy.

Yup, discss still get pirated, but PC pirates (now the majority) couldn't be bothered spending money to buy them from pirate producers when they can steal them for free.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."