Karaoke Forums

I would much rather they send out cease and desist that to just pull people into court. It was one of the peeves I had with how they were doing things before. Now the bar can ask the KJs what they are doing. I've got zero problems with that.

Cease and desist letters usually contain language about the consequences of not cooperating with the cease and desist. If the letter was just 'you'd better stop what you're doing' rather than 'you'd better stop what you're doing or else' it would have no bite. Too easy to ignore. That's why there's usually the 'or else' part.

_________________
DJ Don

Here is a redacted example of a typical letter we send out to venues.

http://phxep.com/vlr.pdf

As you can see, it makes no demands for money, nor is there any mechanism for anyone to "settle" with us identified in this letter. The purposes of this letter are to inform venues of their obligation to keep infringement from occurring in their establishments, to inform venues of the six options that will allow the use of our IP in their shows without incurring liability, and to inform the venues that if they ignore their obligations, they are subject to suit.

Is it just me, because I thought for sure you were describing InsaneKJ....

Just sayin'...

On another note, I wouldn't take much credence in your (ignorant) spew about the CB trademark. You know you don't have diddly squat on that one since the product was sold in a digital format. You're simply preying on the uninformed. That's your trademark of integrity and ethics.

This letter is quite similar to what ASCAP, BMI etc. might send to an establishment.

As I see it, the only operators who 'may' escape the infringement are those who bought their karaoke business from an 'established' KJ/business inclusive of those brands, but that would be for a judge to decide. And lord knows, judges are all over the map.

As Clint Eastwood's character once said when it was pointed out that he just shot an unarmed man.... "Then he should have armed himself". Its up to the bars to arm themselves with knowledge. It doesn't cost that much to get good legal advise prior to choosing the fork in the road...

Lots to laugh at in the letter but at least they are notifying establishments prior to a suit.

Gee, how convenient that you seemed to have left out one important way that venues can protect themselves from your lawsuits: DON'T USE THE BRAND. Let's forget about completely informing venues of all their options and only tell them the ones that you have a vested interest in. (how ethical of you!)

And this is in your typical "less than truthful" style because it's a "half-truth":
That's pure crapola and you know it. You are threatening venues for the CB logo when there are plenty of KJ's that spent THOUSANDS on CB drives and SD cards and they do NOT need a "license" from you at all. On this point, I will label it a LIE, pure and simple.



Nice going counsel... and least you're consistent...

You know, Chip, when you point out things Mr. Jim may be doing wrong, and by chance it IS wrong, it only gives him the means to correct it. So sure, publicly point out what you think may is wrong, but be aware that if it really is, sure, you're making forum members aware, but you're also helping Mr. Jim.

_________________
DJ Don

threats of legal action to book gigs, why did i not think of that?

_________________
Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

He knows exactly what he's doing, and he knows the difference between "doing what's right" and "getting away with what only appears legal," he can't possibly be that stupid..... can he?

His letter is nothing more than a carefully crafted scare tactic because I can call every single club in your city that advertises karaoke and ask them what nights they have karaoke, and who the karaoke company is (because I'm having a birthday party) and call it "research" and produce the exact same form letter by filling in the blanks. I can look you up on facebook and get the club names from your own social media advertising which tells me instantly where YOU work to "fill in the form letter blanks."

If I were a club owner, I'd write back and thank them for the information and assure them that this brand is not being displayed in my building and I wouldn't even think twice. Then I'd tell the KJ that the first time I see it, he's will be replaced with some other form of entertainment because I don't have time for this crap, period.

There are a dozen other reasons to that this letter is a road apple, but it does serve to let you know that if you are using the brand, you're now on their radar as a potential sales/settlement lead.

Preying on the uninformed, that's all it is.

Most people define "scare tactic" as a strategy founded on arousing fear based on false information.

The point of these letters is not necessarily to arouse fear, but even if it were, it's still based on true information.

It's also true that you can call every karaoke club in town, and some of them will tell you that information, but most won't, either because the person who answers the phone doesn't know, or because "we don't give out that information."

And it's true that we get an amazing amount of information from social media. After all, successful karaoke operators promote their shows, and social media is one way to do that. So if you're an operator who's using pirated tracks, I guess you have a choice--you can hide from us, or you can promote the shows, but you can't do both effectively.

(And one more truth: We don't just do those things before we send letters.)



And, as I have said again and again, ad nauseam, that is perfectly fine with us.

In practice, it doesn't happen much. Most of the time, these letters get put in the circular file, which is also fine. I can't force people to do the right thing--except in court, of course.



Sounds like a good reason to get licensed. Oh, and a little bird told me that license prices are going up soon, so if you're thinking about a HELP license, now would be a good time to lock in your pricing.



"Preying" on the uninformed by making them informed. Odd that you would consider that strange.

What about "stop what you're doin', cause I'm about to ruin the image and the style you are used to. I look funny, but yo, I'm making money, see, so yo world I hope you're ready for me."

That has some bite.

_________________
C Mc
KJ, FL

Chip is always RIGHT! This is EXACTLY what I would tell my Venue Owner. "Those BRANDS and the people that represent them can kiss my a#s." And, they would be removed. I would be very happy selling them on Ebay to recoup my money. Then, let someone else be "compliant" with getting some licensing for their use. LMFAO.

You know, the beautiful thing about computers is that it only takes a few seconds to remove unwanted Tracks and even FASTER from a MSAccess database...ask Hillbilly about how quickly emails can be removed from a computer.

Other Brands have, just about, replaced every unique SC track out there. It must KILL YOU that you can't control parties or other PRIVATE venues who are NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC...still LMFAO.

scare tactics
plural noun /ˈskeər ˌtæk·tɪks/
​

ways of achieving a particular result by frightening people so much that they do what you want them to do:
Some of the companies selling anti-spyware tools employ scare tactics.

_________________
Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

So, telling people what the law is and how to avoid getting sued for breaking it is a "scare tactic."

Sort of like how informing people about an issue they may not be aware of, that may affect them greatly, is "preying on the uninformed."

Startling.

I think the people that sell anti-spyware tools are the same ones that create them in the first place.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

"Making them informed" usually doesn't include omissions and half-truths. When you use those tactics to elicit any kind of payment, it is preying.... And I'm confident that you're smart enough to know there's no difference.

And that's not strange.... for you. It's policy.

i posted the dictionary definition...nothing more.
if the pirate hosts were getting nailed for it, i believe you would have less push back than you are.
the latest experience of ditching the pirate for the venue hurt things a bit. i think it would be naive to feel otherwise.
this still goes against the fact that 99.99% of the music industry (everyone in it besides PEP) believe that a copy is not infringement but fairly protecting the investment that was made into the music company makes it the accepted industry practice.
one company decides that the entire industry is misinterpreting the laws and all but 300 or so in the world are illegally pirating music by doing what all the industry (besides PEP) allows as a general business practice and threatening to sue a venue for hiring a host following those worldwide accepted business practices does take it inot another category.
if the scope was limited to those most likely to be pirating i could see the argument. going after someone who advertises 30,000 songs because they did not pay is not going after the likely pirate. some very honest members here alone have more tracks than that number in several rigs, i fail to see any host with 6 digits of songs being honest and legal. while Kevin Cable is taken to court, 6 digit pirates are reported and ignored.
the threat against venues is NOT for hiring pirates, but for hiring those who did not pay for SC certifications.
"Our research indicates that you currently offer karaoke entertainment at your establishment,
and that the karaoke shows are provided to your patrons by. We have no record of that
operator having obtained a license from us. Whether that operator or another operator is providing
services at your location, there is a significant chance that unlicensed karaoke tracks are being used at
your establishment. We routinely investigate these matters by making unannounced visits to public
karaoke shows. If we determine that unlicensed karaoke tracks that infringe our rights are in use at your
establishment after you have been warned not to allow it, we will take aggressive action to enforce our
rights, including by filing a lawsuit against the unlicensed operator and against your company. The
consequences of such a suit can be dire: significant money judgments, injunctions, and attorney fees
have been awarded against venue owners who ignored our warnings. "
not those stealing or "pirating" (the actual usage of that term) but not paying for a license to use the industry accepted copies.
they have no reason to believe the host is doing anything illegal since there is no other entity in the music industry that does not allow this use as part of the sale of the track to begin with.

_________________
Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

The only thing I see by going after venues (legal or not) is the venues going to stop karaoke altogether. If they had a host that didn't register but was fully legal otherwise, and they got a letter, chances are the venue will stop karaoke entertainment completely. I would think this is the opposite effect you'd want. Since they wouldn't even hire a 'legal' host at that point. Karaoke entertainment is in a dying mode right now anyway, why kill it more by suing the ones you want the entertainment in?

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!