Karaoke Forums

My JVC triple & single trays (x2) all play SBI customs with no issues. So does my Pioneer players. When they are dirty or out of alignment is when they start displaying issues on any custom disc regardless of manu.

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My lappy can play both. and do a lot more. and can be replaced and maintained more easily then the JVC. and weighs less. and is smaller. and......and.....and....

And.......

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-Chris

I don't understand why Kj's are so hung up about checking this company vs this company to see if someone paid royalties etc. When u go to a store and buy something and pay taxes. Do u investigate that store to see if they paid their taxes. If the people selling karaoke don't pay royalties or abide by the rules inforced on them they should pay the price not the average Kj that buys karaoke music, cdg's or downloads in good faith. I can prove to any judge in America that I paid for all my music. Is that not good enough. Does anyone agree with me.

If you have disc it's good enough. Download is the grey area that may leave the KJ exposed to action against them as there is no hard copy.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I have a hard copy of my receipt.

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-Chris

Chris, That may do you as much good as having a receipt from the dispensary when you bought weed in Colorado if you get caught with it in Florida. (legal in CO illegal in FL).

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
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"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

But Athena, that's only on a State Level. On a Federal Level, it's still illegal in CO (and people have been fired from their jobs (regardless of the fact that they obtained it legally for medical reasons) due to "No Tolerance" policies at the Workplace).

The fact remains that I do have a hard copy of my receipt that maps out to the file I have in my possession. I have proof of purchase for something I possess. That does matter.

And just because Florida isn't on board with the whole pot thing now, doesn't mean they won't be in a few years.

I am banking that the digital downloads I buy and use now will remain useful for the life of my business. If I am wrong, you get to say "I told you so". If I am right, I am just going to go about my business without gloating. Though I will likely smoke a joint in celebration.

In fact, both of these issues parallel each other quite nicely. I have been smoking pot since 1978. I have never made a big deal of it and not once have I ever been busted for it. I joined NORML 30 years ago and I have quietly supported marijuana reform. I am fortunate that I live in a progressive state (WA) where the citizens and the politicians have enough vision to have changed the laws around marijuana.

I feel comfortable that a similar kind of change will take place for karaoke music and digital downloads. And like I did with pot, I am already on board and enjoying the benefits that others are denying themselves. Except with karaoke music, they are denying themselves for no good reason. No one is prosecuting karaoke hosts for digital downloads. Absolutely no one.

So unlike your legitimate concern that a pot smoker in Florida could potentially go to prison merely for possession of marijuana, absolutely no one is being scrutinized for buying and download karaoke tracks. Absolutely no one.

I will be thinking about this tonight when I smoke a doob before going to a karaoke show tonight where they have paid for digital downloads......

Party on....

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-Chris

kjathena, are you saying, in this scenario, that someone that purchased their music is just as wrong as someone who didn't? If so there is something terribly wrong with our laws.

Legally, whether the use in a public performance of an unlicensed karaoke track that expresses a copyrighted musical composition is a copyright infringement, or not, does NOT depend on:

1) Whether or not you purchased the track, OR
2) Whether you are using a download or a disc.

These factors are simply not relevant to the determination.

They MAY BE relevant to your exposure to damages. Being able to prove you made a good-faith purchase of a track is a factor enabling the judge to consider your infringement to be "innocent infringement," which results in lower (not zero) damages.

As a practical matter, whether or not you purchased the track and whether or not it came on a disc or via download, your exposure to a lawsuit from a musical composition copyright owner (a music publisher or songwriter) is nearly zero because it is simply not economical to bring federal lawsuits against individual KJs.

And what about that karaoke company in Oregon (which just expanded and started nights in Seattle not too long ago) that creates their own karaoke tracks if they cannot get it elsewhere for over 10 years - I mean they have everything you can think of or wanted and then some.

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And I would think if the clubs were paying their PRO fees, that there would even be less chance that publishers are going to do a thing?!?!? (Unless Universal doesn't fall under one of the 'big 3').

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That's probably true. I do know that the music publishers aren't, as a rule, entirely happy with the way that the PROs divvy up the fees, but that's something they fight out with the PROs.

I should probably amend my statement to say that it is not economical for a music publisher to bring federal lawsuits against individual KJs. There are reasons why it is economical for others (such as my clients) to do so, but not for music publishers. It is more difficult for music publishers to do so because, as a rule, they own rights in less of a given KJ's catalog than does SC.

(I interject here that what I mean is that in my own extensive experience, at an average karaoke show on an average night, when a KJ dials up the next track, there is about a 50% likelihood that it will be a SC track, simply based on what brand gets played. There are exceptions, of course. But the likelihood that it will be a Universal composition is far smaller.)

Music publishers also have a more difficult time because they have to show not only that they own the composition, but also that the recording being used was not licensed--which can be difficult, given the loosey-goosey nature of karaoke licensing. Copyright infringement is much more extensively litigated than trademark law, which means there are many more points of case law that have to be considered, along with defenses that apply to copyright law but not to trademark law.

If you throw on top of that the fact that the publisher is getting royalties for the performance through the PROs (something that also doesn't apply to SC), it's understandable why publishers don't seem to be interested in going after individual KJs. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but it is likely to be rare at best.

So kjathena I think you can relax as long as you actually own it..... even if it is a gray area.

So in the Oregon company example where they will actually make their own graphics, if the club is paying their PRO fees, chances are likely slim-none that a publisher wouldn't come in and do anything to them because it wouldn't be economically beneficial. Not saying they wouldn't but far less likely over say a club that doesn't pay & the kj is running an all pirated drive (or even legit discs for that matter) - of course in an opinion.

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They have done at least one show in Los Angeles as well.

I am sure there are copyright or legal issues they could face. But they don't impact me so I don't give them any real thought. Creating their own is also a separate issue from buying digital downloads.

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-Chris

I would guess that so long as they don't distribute any of what they create, they are pretty safe.

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-Chris

But that was kind of my point. Creating their own is even worse than just purchasing/downloading through a real source. They've been doing it for years with no impact to them and they even advertise the hell out of the fact. They aren't distributing or selling their creations, but I seriously doubt that they've paid any sync rights (I could be wrong but doubt it).

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Lon brought up the PRO fees, and something has been bugging me about that.

While they cover the music, do they actually cover the lyric display as well? I am under the impression that they do not.

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" Disc based and loving it..."

The contract through BMI specifically has a karaoke inclusion if the club checks it. I would assume the others have similar additions as well - never really checked. But it would be pretty naive on the PRO's to add the inclusion and not expect the graphics to accompany since karaoke has had video/graphics since the mid to late 80's. But I did talk with a couple reps via BMI a few years back and they said as long as the club has checked the karaoke box (paying for the extra cost) the graphics aren't an issue. No I never documented or recorded the call, so that is all hearsay. You can call and check personally.

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