Karaoke Forums

Wait, are we saying that I bought several thousands of dollars of legal, licensed SoundChoise content over the years. Now, if I don't pay a new fee they made up, they are going to say I can't use their product?

Isn't that kinda like buying a car (or any given product), then the car maker saying, "you can no longer use our car unless you send us $200 a month?" Seriously?

Well that wasn't the original deal when I shook your hand and bought your product. The original deal is written on the inside sleeve of the CDG cover. I can show it to you. That's what I agreed to when I bought the product.

I don't mind changing the rules for future patrons, but this is absolutely ridiculous for a good faith transaction that was completed prior to the new rules. There ought to at least be a grandfather clause, right?

Maybe I'm missing something here. Can someone dumb it down for me?

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C Mc
KJ, FL

No, not at all. As I understand it, you can use your discs free & clear in a CD+G player as much as you like.

It looks like a case of "If at first you don't succeed try, try again" even if it angers and alienates long standing and paying customers I have close to 1000 SC discs and this does not set well with me.

Come on now Bazza .....REALLY!!

If you have gone through the certification process described on that insert, then you don't need a HELP license.

If you haven't, your choices are:

A) Buy a HELP license,
B) Play from original discs, or
C) Don't play SC material.

You're going to compare what a KJ invested in the SC product (and what you're using as your example is the COMPLETE product line), to how much more SC expects a KJ (a legit one at that) to pay for SC to make back a 100% profit? Seriously??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
And what about the KJ who only purchased (let's say) 100 Spotlight Series discs. At $27 per disc (at least that is what the retail price was down to 10 years ago), that would add up to $2,700 (let's exclude Sales Tax for now). Hmmmmmmmm... $2,700 vs an additional $2,400 for 1 year. Hmmmmmmmm SC is coming up short $300 on (as you just compared it) breaking even. And let's just ASSUME that this KJ is in it for the long run... meaning he isn't planning on quitting after just 1 year. So now you have a KJ (a NOT SO VERY HAPPY one at that), who has made an investment, and now, just because he is operating via a Computer based system, has to keep paying for those discs every single year (as if he never bought them before).

People here are saying that this is extortion. Technically (and even legally) it is NOT, because no outright threat is being made (you are making a promise that these KJs will be sued if they do not comply to paying a monthly fee for that specific type of use), and none of them (the KJs) are being FORCED to continue playing a SC track off of their computer; HOWEVER, it would be considered PRICE GOUGING.

Really, Really. TopherM doesnt have to pay any new/extra fees to use his discs, which was his question.

Are you talking from a position of how this affects your business, or just in general terms?

In other words, did you ask to be certified? You certainly would have qualified for a free audit when Kurt was offering them. He was only asking for 150 discs, and Chris even hinted that he may be willing to make exceptions on a case by case basis.

If you did ask for that free audit but they never got back to you, then I would contact soundchoice and ask to talk to Kurt.. I am sure he would be HAPPY to grant you an exception. Just like the other person whom soundchoice never got around to certifying.

And if you look at Mr. Harrington's original statement, he did say that they were not taking any NEW applications.

That already seems to imply that they have a backorder of applications that are being resolved.

If you did not ask for your free certification then WHY NOT?? The inconvience of a bit of time for a free audit. Seems like a pretty reasonable trade off to me.

However that being said, here's an idea. Why don't you ASK Kurt for an exemption anyway? For 1000 discs, i'm sure he'd be MORE than happy to grant it.

No comment

another angle....
i AM certified. my first rig is certified, my 2nd and 3rd have no SC on them. if i want to add SC to those rigs and build another (which i have been looking at, there are songs that i would like to have), i have to spend $3500 on the discs i would get, then pay $7200 per year to use them. and that is with being certified.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Actually.....you don't have to buy any more SC discs for the additional rigs. Just acquire all 16500+ titles at 320k and not bad graphics THEN pay the 7200/yr.

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-Chris

Or because he is certified, he can buy the disks and pay nothing. One you are certified, you are set for life as long as you follow the rules of that agreement, which is basically 1:1.


He'd have a choice of which way to do it.

-James

...Not if he's adding a NEW rig. ...I could be wrong but I believe it's stated on the PEP Site.

correct, that only applies to my first rig.
and Chris is correct as well. i can just torrent the entire library and be fine.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

...From my understanding, you could still:
#1) Purchase the original SC Discs and play them from some type of device (cdg player, through a laptop that plays cdgs, etc.). I believe you use Siglos Professional Software and am sure you're aware of that. (With no need for a HELP License)
#2) Purchase the GEM Series (With no need for a HELP License)
#3) Replace those desired SC Tracks/Discs with other karaoke brand(s). (With no need for a HELP License)
#4) or ... as Chris stated, acquire some or all of the SC Red Logo Digital Tracks. (Then either you or the Commercial Venue must get a Help License).

...However, as far as the quality requirements, here it is from PEP Site:

>Are there any quality restrictions on the tracks I use?
+++Yes. If you use MP3+G format, your MP3 files must be encoded at a minimum bitrate of 192 kbps. You may also use WAV or AIFF format (both of which are "lossless"). The tracks you use cannot have any perceptible audio dropouts or graphical defects, and if you discover any, you must replace those tracks or remove them from use. You must also provide "professional"-level services and use equipment that is appropriate for the venue where you are playing. You'll need to certify that you're doing so. We are developing a specialized tool that will allow you to check the encoding of your MP3 files.

...Beyond the GEM Lessees and Already Certified KJs, yes you and others who want to expand are in the same boat as those who were either waiting for Audits/Certifications or those who had media-shifted but didn't act on the opportunity of getting certified.

...However, with your 2nd and 3rd rigs (with no SC Content), if your intentions were to spend $3,500.00 on SC Discs and then transfer them and if the $150.00 audit fee were still in tact, you would have a total of a $3,800.00 invested in them (only counting SC Content). Now, with today's new policies, that Window is Closed. So, no matter where you get those tracks (1-16,500), the cost is whatever($) for acquiring them and then $199.00 per month/per rig. If you run those two rigs for the next 10 years, instead of a $3,800.00 investment (discs and audits for the 2nd & 3rd rig), now it's $2,388.00 per yea/per rig. Then, looking long term such as a 10 year plan: 2 rigs at 2388.00 per year/per rig times 10 years equals $47,760.00 vs. $3,800.00 (if the audit fee was still $150.00 per rig).
Mayyyybe just a slight difference, what da ya think?
....Of course, perhaps you could talk the Commercial Venue into paying for the Help License which is $299.00 per month.

i just noticed this, to have this license, SC is not only regulating and auditing your disc rips, but also regulating your equipment choice, and hosting method.

what does SC consider to be professional level services?
what does SC consider appropriate equipment?
who is making those decisions?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

... Yep. I did mean to bring that up when I noticed it the other night. Glad I'm not the only one that sounds like the little kid asking his Dad "Why? Why? Why?" But glad you did. Good questions!

A tool. Ah. Just look at the properties if the music file. It will tell you the bit-rate.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Actually, you would not be fine. You could potentially still be at the mercy of the original rights holders. Anyone who does this isn't interested in following the rules. They are only interested in CYA. I remember when the Karaoke Cloud happened and everyone balked at the $200 they are charging. The consensus: it was an outlandish price. At least with the cloud they say the publisher fees are covered. Now SC is wanting the same price strictly to show their logo and people think it's an OK price? There is some serious flaws in that thinking..

A short play in two acts:

ACT 1

KARL: Hi Joe

JOE: Hi Karl, how's it going?

K: Hey, how do you like my pen?

J: Looks like a nice pen.

K: Here, try it! [hands Joe his pen]

J: Umm, okay... Hey this IS a nice pen... [tries pen on scratch pad]

J: Yeah, nice balance, nice ink, transparent barrel, yeah, you've got a great pen there. [hands pen back to Karl]

K: I'll sell it to you for 25 cents.

J: Huh? What? Wait now, that pen has your name engraved on it, you don't really wanna...

K: Oh I had a whole case of them made, all with my name. It's the best pen ever made, don't you think?

J: Well, yeah, it's a great pen.

K: C'mon, buy it, just 25 cents!

J: [lookng at Karl oddly] Ooookay buddy, if it makes you happy. I always need a good pen. Here's a quarter.

[Joe hands Karl a quarter, and Karl hands Joe his pen]

K: Great! Enjoy the pen! See you around!

[CURTAIN] [INTERMISSION]


ACT 2

KARL: Hiya Joe! How's things?

JOE: Oh hey there Karl! Good, how's you.

K: Fine, fine. Hey, how's that pen working out for you?

J: Oh the pen -- yeah, great.

K: It hasn't run out of ink yet? [eyes Joe suspiciously]

J: No, actually I'm using it very sparingly so it doesn't. I mean, I use it all the time, but not to write with.

K: What's this? What's this?

J: Well look at this... [Joe pulls pen from pocket and holds up to the light]

K: What are you showing me?

J: See that bubble in the center of the ink? [tilting pen left then right] This thing makes a fantastic level!

K: Am I to understand you're using my pen as a pocket level?

J: [laughs] You mean MY pen. Yeah, it makes my job easier, I keep it in my pocket and use it at work all the time.

K: Doesn't a good, industrial grade pocket level run about $10 Joe?

J: Probably yeah, but this is better because it's always in my pocket and it can write too.

K: You owe me $9.75

J: Ha ha! You're hilarious Karl!

K: No seriously, you owe me $9.75. You're using my pen as a $10 tool, and that's not what I sold it to you for.

J: Okay Karl, first of all I paid you exactly what you asked for the thing. Secondly, it's not YOUR pen anymore.

K: Yes it is, it has my name engraved on it.

J: Well that's how you sold it to me!

K: And if you're going to use my pen as something else, at work, with my name on it, I want another $9.75.

J: Well I bought it for work!

K: As a PEN, not a level. If you're going to level things with it then you owe me another $9.75 for the first month...

J: [interrupting] Do you want the pen back Karl?

K: And another $10 a month for every month you use that pen -- bearing MY name -- as a level.

J: It's not your... What!?! $10 a MONTH?

K: No I do not want the pen back. I want you to write with it, and only write with it, or you pay me $10 a month.

J: I think you've gone crazy -- what's wrong with you?

K: And if you do not pay me $10 a month, I will show up at your workplace. I will harass you on the job. I will threaten your livelihood.

J: Ease up old friend. Would you feel better it I sanded your name off the pen?

K: [screaming maniacally] No! That's worse! It's my pen! It's my pen! I'll sue you!

J: [reaches for phone]

K: Are you calling a lawyer?

J: No, I'm getting you a doctor.

[CURTAIN]