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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:21 am 
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toqer wrote:
This copyright stuff is all federal. It's all congress stuff. I have a fairly directly line to my local congressman, who also happens to be Japanese, and also happens to sing "My Way" once in a while down at 7 Bamboo. Here's a copy of what I sent his assistant.

Hi Meri!

It's been a while. I was wondering if Mike had some time to talk
about issues affecting the karaoke industry. I can try and boil it
down here.

Karaoke has changed a lot in the last 20 years. A lot of folks run
their shows from PC's. (A lot pirate the content, but this is a
separate issue)

There's a few US karaoke disc makers that are trying to say that
copying CD's you bought and paid for to your hard drive is against the
law. They're really causing a big stink over it, and scaring karaoke
DJ's into submitting themselves for an audit with nasty attorney
letters and the like.

This would be like saying, "I heard this one karaoke DJ was growing
pot in his house, I don't know which one, but let's search them all"

I myself don't pirate content. Anytime they can look at my stuff.
Problem is, I don't agree with this tactic.

Here's where the issue really gets interesting... They're also saying
that any paid for, downloaded karaoke is against the law too, yet
there are legitimate companies (not these companies spreading the FUD)
selling karaoke on Itunes and other download sites. In the last few
days this has all erupted into a burst of discussion on one karaoke
forum I hang out on.

viewtopic.php?p=296174#p296174

If you can scroll down a bit on the above link, you can see one online
karaoke download site (tricerasoft1) trying to set the record
straight.

I want clarification on these issues. Who's right? The US companies
saying artist/label sanctioned karaoke downloads and legally purchased
content copied to your hard drive is legal, or the US companies saying
it's all illegal?

Because if the former is right, I have nothing to worry about at the 7
Bamboo. If the latter is correct, then I've just broken the law 444
times (the number of legit CD's we have) when I copied the CD's to 7
Bamboo's hard drive, possibly creating a trademark/copyright liability
for the 7 Bamboo.

Thank you so much.

Yours Truly,
Robert Cortese


I should have a reply in the next few days, and if not I can just stop by his office.

If we really want a definitive answer on these issues, everyone needs to do the same. Everyone needs to find out who their local congressperson is and bug the hell out of them.

When you send you letter, include that "Robert Cortese from San Jose CA has contact Mike Honda's Office" Each person that writes a new letter, append the names (and your name) By the time we get to the last few congress people, we'll have a chain of people listed that have asked the same question across the country. Let's keep this list rolling, on this thread.

I want karaoke forums to support me on this effort (staff) This is the way to get final, done, no more question about these issues answers that we need. I hope you'll trim any "anti" statements against this effort. This is the "RIGHT" way of getting the answer, nothing out of line here.

I'm not hiding behind anything, not even anonymity anymore.

So again..

Write your local congress, include my name, and the name of the congressperson I just mentioned.

Don't hide behind anonymity. Include your name, and your congresspersons name on your replies to this thread so others may include it on theirs.

Let's put an end to this argument once and for all.



So regardless of the fact that Chartbuster themselves have said that their downloads are not for commercial use and that any Chartbuster sold by tricerasoft is unauthorized you still want a congressman that is not an IP specialist to give you the answer you want. If the other manus, PHM and SC also have the same stand, then what exactly are you trying to prove? Your time is better served by adressing your concerns directly to the manus.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:18 am 
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Rumbolt, go read tricerasofts response to that here. It represents the views of SF, Top Hits (us company), Zoom, and many many others.
viewtopic.php?p=296181#p296181

When a corporation, or a group of corporations engage in this kind of behaviour, it needs to be checked. Just cause I wrote some software and someone is pirating it, doesn't grant me an all exclusive license to spread lies in the marketplace.

It's anti-competitive, anti-trust, innovation stifling, I could go on. It's time this all was investigated by a congressional inquiry at the least, and if we're lucky, a congressional hearing. Congressional because we are dealing with laws that are cross state, and possibly need fixing, definitely need defining, and as stand now, are too vague in regards to karaoke.

Go write your congress. It'll take you 5 minutes tops.

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It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:19 am 
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Just write in. We'll have every member of congress looking into this before weeks end.

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:25 pm 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:

not as cool as congress, but at least it is something, better than nothing.


Thanks Paradigm. I've had a few others that have PM'd me that they're gonna write too (but I think they're worried about posting about it here will make them a target)

I'll copypasta their results here when I get them. (slightly edited to protect the innocent)

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:43 pm 
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just a suggestion:

Why not email a few publishers and ask them as well. After all, they are the ones that ultimately give permission for a down loadable delivery system right?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:51 pm 
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We have conflicting reports from publishers, which is why we need a congressional inquiry. I am confused uncle sam, please tell me what's right.

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:01 pm 
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Perhaps I wasn't clear....

The publishers are the ones that own the underlying musical works. It's ultimately up to them to determine whether or not their property is licensed for download or not.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:09 pm 
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I'm breaking the law if I copy the CDG to a hard drive and ONLY use it in one location? I'm not *just* talking downloads here, I want an answer to that question, and many others.

That's a fair enough reason right?

This issue affects all of us. Everyone. Every single venue owner, every single KJ, every singer. Anyone that is involved in karaoke either as a customer, or a provider will be affected if which side is right isn't ironed out now. We can't trust the companies to agree any more, this is evident. We can all agree, that none of them agree, and we need to know who is right.

Let your voices be heard. Ask your congressman or woman. Pester them till they answer. You are their boss, you deserve an answer (or new laws which favour one side or the other).

Just... Lets not bicker.. At least agree to contact congress for a final, clarification. We shouldn't have to be confused over this subject anymore.

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:34 am 
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http://www.contactingthecongress.org/do ... ess.db.txt

Time to buy some envelopes and stamps.

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:34 am 
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So not a congressman, but still a good promoter.

My friend, long time customer is in charge of SONY SCEA marketing. This is the Sony arm that promotes the Playstation products in the US. I have a writeup on facebook about this. He saw it and said he's going to forward the story to some of his friends in the press.

Stay tuned.

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:43 am 
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toqer wrote:
So not a congressman, but still a good promoter.

My friend, long time customer is in charge of SONY SCEA marketing. This is the Sony arm that promotes the Playstation products in the US. I have a writeup on facebook about this. He saw it and said he's going to forward the story to some of his friends in the press.

Stay tuned.


What's really going to be funny is if after all of this Congress does do something ....................... Like detailing the laws to include Karaoke disc and then saying that only "the disc" can be used in a comercial operation. Watch everyone scramble then!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:47 am 
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that would suck, but at least there would be a concrete answer.
not knowing anything for sure is the worst part and is the cause of a majority of the arguments on this and any karaoke forum.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:02 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
that would suck, but at least there would be a concrete answer.
not knowing anything for sure is the worst part and is the cause of a majority of the arguments on this and any karaoke forum.



Well I guess not everyone will be scrambling because those that own the disc will simply be able to go back to players and continue on with their business uninterrupted, but the vast majority will have a major problem.
I am sitting here looking at nine players that haven't seen use in five or more years 4 LD units, 4 Pioneer V10Gs and a 555 player so if it ever came to going back to disc I wouldn't even have an interruption. Doubt that it would ever happen, just speculating on what the outcome would be for legal KJs, Pirates and the Manus.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:28 am 
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So armed with that massive list of whitehouse.gov email addresses, I'm getting ready to blast the entire house. Since this affects small businesses, I'm also including the SBA on this.

Forget karaoke for a minute here guys. You boot a windows PC with the MS trademark, turn on a Sony Bravia TV and the Sony Logo, you have the BOSE trademark on all your speakers. We use all these trademarks in business. If any trademark is allowed to retroactively apply damages, it's going to be a nightmare. Like Gandolf from LOTR's said, "You shall not pass" I raise my voice and opinions now, to the only ones that can straighten out this mess.

If these "trademark" lawsuits are allowed.. It's setting up a very dangerous precedent that could put our country into a deeper hole than the one we're in already.. This is worse than bad, it's a catastrophe. Our court system will be bogged down with so many what I consider "Frivolous" lawsuits which won't be settled for years.

I hope everyone else sees the bigger picture here. It's a trainwreck waiting to happen...

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:47 am 
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I think this song says a lot!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH-AafkQPEo


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:47 am 
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Those trademarks are properly displayed as the owner wishes and that goes for prooperly licenced articles, ie t-shirts, jackets etc.

Now if you create a clone or close duplicate of anything (without permission) and put the manufacturers' trademark on them, then it is called a knock-off and illegal (think of fashion knock offs). When you copy a disc without permission, then it is a knock-off. Now whether the karaoke manufacturers have the legal authority to permit copies or not is another matter (it would depend on what rights the copyright holder gives).

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:52 am 
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Timberlea...

Even if I play off a CDG, their lawsuit alleges a "Display of trademark" without permission for commercial gain. This even puts you (a disk based KJ) at risk. Do you understand this point?

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:53 am 
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I hope your mind is officially blown now.

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:55 am 
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timberlea wrote:
Those trademarks are properly displayed as the owner wishes and that goes for prooperly licenced articles, ie t-shirts, jackets etc.

Now if you create a clone or close duplicate of anything (without permission) and put the manufacturers' trademark on them, then it is called a knock-off and illegal (think of fashion knock offs). When you copy a disc without permission, then it is a knock-off. Now whether the karaoke manufacturers have the legal authority to permit copies or not is another matter (it would depend on what rights the copyright holder gives).



I can only say

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un0s0NSs ... re=related


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:38 pm 
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So for more giggles today,

http://www.bsis.ca.gov/industries_regulated/uaau.shtml

Private investigating in California without a license? That's a no-no.

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me


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