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rumbolt
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 Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:14 am |
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Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 6:38 pm
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Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
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JoeChartreuse @ Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:40 am wrote: rumbolt @ Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:20 pm wrote: JoeChartreuse @ Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:44 pm wrote: Virgin Karaoke @ Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:28 pm wrote: Paradigm Karaoke @ Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:59 pm wrote: and the letters have started going out in AZ. have an aquaintence (sp?) who called asking what to do. i know she has well over 140,000 tracksand not 1 disc so i gave her her options. she wants to tell SC to shove it and go to court so we may have a real precedent coming finally. Does she not realize that by the time she got the letter SC already has a pretty good case against her? She had better remember what songs she played from what disc and make sure she has those as well as the foundations. Even doing that she had better make sure her purchases can't be tracked ie. E-bay etc. or her goose is cooked! While the KJ isn't operating intelligently ( actually, she must be a few short to pass on info like that anyway) it would be wise for SOUND CHOICE to make sure they know what tracks were played as well, and make sure they weren't from, say, SC8125, SC8438, SC 2163, etc.., and make sure that any track that was witnessed being played was licensed in the U.S. - otherwise the KJ walks. Here is the way I see it and bear with me as I might be longwinded with my comments. Sound Choice is not suing for copyright infringement. They are suing for Trademark (logo) – I think you are mixing apples and oranges. The trademark is validly registered even if there might be some “issues” with the underlying composition copyrights. I have learned a lot working with Chartbuster here. So many of you forget that the manufacturers only need a valid reason to file a suit. The real information and details are learned during the discovery phase of the lawsuit. They probably can find plenty of songs on her system, not just the ones that were played the night(s) of the investigation. Defendants have three choices: Settle, proceed with the case or default. When you default, you basically admit all the allegations in the lawsuit and then the plaintiff requests whatever damages they believe they can successfully argue before the judge. The judge will then grant them some amount and then will also usually direct the Federal Marshals to assist in the collection of that debt. If you decide to proceed with the case, after spending about $5-$10K in retainer fees (hmm seems it would be cheaper to settle), the next step is to go into discovery. The plaintiffs can demand to see EVERYTHING related to your business – and I mean EVERYTHING. How you get paid, taxes paid, purchase and expense receipts; if you have other KJs working for you, whether or not you have issued 1099s or if you have collected FICA and SUTA and paid them out to the government. This is where many KJs are going to be toasted. Unless your business practices are squeaky clean you’re much better off settling with the manufacturer before you NEXT have to deal with the IRS, state Department of revenue, the ESC, etc. And Btw, did you know there are rewards for reporting income tax evasion? First, we have BEEN talkinking about Trademark Infringement, not Copyright Infringement. Second, and to repeat: If a logo is attached to something without legal authorization ( ln this case proper licensing by the karaoke mfr.) than it has been attached illegally. This makes it legally invisible. In other words, if SC brought someone to court for displaying their logo onscreen while playing and EAGLES track- for which they never had any licensing to produce- they would lose in court, pretty much instantly. Also, if a KJ brought a few hundred of the tracks that weren't licensed for production to court, proving habitual mis-attachment of the logo- I believe the manufacturer would also lose- and probably put themselves in some legal difficulties as well. If a mfr. has no U.S. licensing for ANY tracks, then ALL attached logos are legally invisible because the logo was attached without permission from the music OWNERS. Kind of like me sneaking up to your front door in the middle of the night, putting my picture there without your permission, then suing you in the morning for displaying my likeness. You aren't liable. However, I could get in trouble for putting it there. Hence the suits against the manufacturers. Now, if a karaoke mfr. was careful to record which tracks were in use during the display of the logo, and those tracks were licensed by the music owners in the U.S. that MIGHT be a different story. Still, if a KJ could prove habitual mis-attachment of the logo it may still hurt the case. In the case of SC, they might be able to sue for trademark infringement in the UK- because THAT is where Kurt says they are licensed, and not the U.S. We are not talking about sneaking up on a porch but a great example is if you produce a product (let's suppose it is a counterfit) and you attach a logo (unauthorized) you can be held liable for trademark infringement regardless if you have permission ot produce the actual product.
Example: I may not reproduce and sell fiberglass saddlebags like the ones sold on a Harley Ultra (they are built to Harly spec by a third party supplier) since the supplier to harley could sue me for design infringement. But, the minute I attach the Harley Logo (registered just as SC's logo is registered) to the bags, then I am in a world of hurt from Harley for Trademark infringement. So, for the moment an argument sake, SC has every right to go for Trademark since it is being displayed or has been displayed without permission.
How about the track that are recorded, shifted and then played by the kj, are those fair game by SC?
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Paradigm Karaoke
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Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:12 am |
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Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:24 pm
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Location: Phoenix Az
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i wasn't aware that someone had already gone through the courts and lost. $150,000, seized equipment, etc. i didn't know that happened. how long ago was that?
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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens
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Wall Of Sound
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Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:39 pm |
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Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:35 am
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Location: Carson City, NV
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Well it sounds like Dan Dan is enjoying all the work he's putting in to fighting this! 
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"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"
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Wall Of Sound
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Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:44 pm |
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Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:35 am
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Location: Carson City, NV
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I found this really funny! One of the defendants in the new North Carolina suits, 10-23 Productions LLC, had this to say on their website blog. "On Behalf of 10-23 Productions we would like to apologize for the technical difficulties that were experienced. After careful review we have discovered that it was a computer virus that entered our computer threw a open wireless network." Read it here: http://10-23productions.com/blog/apolog ... he-tavern/Could it be they were downloading a karaoke song from a torrent that happened to have a virus? Too funny! 
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"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"
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Thunder
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:45 am |
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Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:36 am
Posts: 1066
Location: Madison VA
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diafel wrote: Do a search in this forum for dandanthetaximan and you will get the whole story. I did and nothing came up!
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Bazza
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Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:14 pm |
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:00 am
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Wall Of Sound wrote: I found this really funny! One of the defendants in the new North Carolina suits, 10-23 Productions LLC, had this to say on their website blog. "On Behalf of 10-23 Productions we would like to apologize for the technical difficulties that were experienced. After careful review we have discovered that it was a computer virus that entered our computer threw a open wireless network." Read it here: http://10-23productions.com/blog/apolog ... he-tavern/Could it be they were downloading a karaoke song from a torrent that happened to have a virus? Too funny! Uh huh. Open or secure wifi means nothing...Viri don't "enter your computer" unless you invite them in.
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carryokey
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Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:41 pm |
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:39 pm
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Went into that particular situation in that bar to deliver some Safe Harbor info and they all but threw us out. People really think they can justify illegal music.
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c. staley
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Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:23 pm |
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Location: In your head rent-free
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My question is "Why is there ANY kind of form that needs to be signed at all?"
There doesn't.
End of story.
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diafel
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Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:02 pm |
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:27 am
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Thunder wrote: diafel wrote: Do a search in this forum for dandanthetaximan and you will get the whole story. I did and nothing came up! Well, it wasn't really necessary then, was it, since you already have read the whole thing when it came out? Nice to see the trolls come out from under their rocks where they've been hiding. There are those of us who don't feel the need to hide like cowards behind other IDs. We have the cajones to just say it, regardless.
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JoeChartreuse
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Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:15 pm |
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:12 pm
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote: i wasn't aware that someone had already gone through the courts and lost. $150,000, seized equipment, etc. i didn't know that happened. how long ago was that? Awhile back, but it was an RIAA case involving illegal file sharing, not an SC case involving Trademark Infringement.
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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"
" Disc based and loving it..."
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Thunder
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Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:18 pm |
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Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:36 am
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Location: Madison VA
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diafel wrote: Thunder wrote: diafel wrote: Do a search in this forum for dandanthetaximan and you will get the whole story. I did and nothing came up! Well, it wasn't really necessary then, was it, since you already have read the whole thing when it came out? Nice to see the trolls come out from under their rocks where they've been hiding. There are those of us who don't feel the need to hide like cowards behind other IDs. We have the cajones to just say it, regardless. Really? Think of a Beatles song and I will sing it for you!
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diafel
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:40 pm |
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:27 am
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Thunder wrote:
Really?
Think of a Beatles song and I will sing it for you!
Must be "Bad Boy".
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karaoke for food.....
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Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:58 pm |
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diafel, and joe, great post and info as always. I look forward to always reading your informative advice and thanks for sharing. Don't think you are the lone voice in the wilderness of common sense, you're not. I agree with you 100%. How can a seemingly average intelligent person buy into the crapola that sc is pedaling? And to add stupidity to it...willinglyturn over your disc, song books, and chance at livelyhood to these {people} that ask for them? i still scratch my head at that one. If you think for one second, that the tactics that sc is using isn't pure and simple intimidation, coercion, threatening, and simple harassment then alot of you are more gullible, then your post suggest. The slep clan are setting on a gold mine, and they know it. And..they even have some unsuspecting kj's to help them. If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny. Mark my words. This is all fine and good untill something goes wrong. One of the reasons the slep's travel around so much, is because a stack of complaints with one judge would upset the assembly line lawsuit machine. A time will come when the sleps will run out of judges willing to put up with their crap. Ride the gravey train while the wheels are still on it. I just can't get rid of this nagging feeling, that their time for harassment is short. Be of good cheer, this to shall pass...... 
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Sweet Little Me In Karaokeland........
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Thunder
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Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:14 pm |
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Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:36 am
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karaoke for food..... wrote: diafel, and joe, great post and info as always. I look forward to always reading your informative advice and thanks for sharing. Don't think you are the lone voice in the wilderness of common sense, you're not. I agree with you 100%. How can a seemingly average intelligent person buy into the crapola that sc is pedaling? And to add stupidity to it...willinglyturn over your disc, song books, and chance at livelyhood to these {people} that ask for them? i still scratch my head at that one. If you think for one second, that the tactics that sc is using isn't pure and simple intimidation, coercion, threatening, and simple harassment then alot of you are more gullible, then your post suggest. The slep clan are setting on a gold mine, and they know it. And..they even have some unsuspecting kj's to help them. If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny. Mark my words. This is all fine and good untill something goes wrong. One of the reasons the slep's travel around so much, is because a stack of complaints with one judge would upset the assembly line lawsuit machine. A time will come when the sleps will run out of judges willing to put up with their crap. Ride the gravey train while the wheels are still on it. I just can't get rid of this nagging feeling, that their time for harassment is short. Be of good cheer, this to shall pass...... Actually those are not the lone voices they are but two of the voices of the proletariat congregation of corsairs who cheer on the aegis argot that they have become known for! What ultimately surfaces is that those who make the claims that the actions of the Manus are intimidation, coercion, threatening, and simple harassment, are generally found to be the very ones that the manus are looking for. It is incumbent upon those who are legal and want to see this business thrive to try and take out or down as many of those who are not legal as possible. Without the money that was stolen from them the manus simply can not continue in the business of producing new music and without new music the shows become stale and die. Eventually Karaoke is just something that takes up space in the garage and is no longer a viable business. Personally I want to see them gone, but as long as we have those who are trying everything they can do or say to support piracy it just drags it out further and further. Put enough pirates on this ship and eventually it will sink!
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c. staley
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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:25 am |
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[quote="Thunder a.k.a Steve Miller, Michael Handy and Mick]
Actually those are not the lone voices they are but two of the voices of the proletariat congregation of corsairs who cheer on the aegis argot that they have become known for!
What ultimately surfaces is that those who make the claims that the actions of the Manus are intimidation, coercion, threatening, and simple harassment, are generally found to be the very ones that the manus are looking for. It is incumbent upon those who are legal and want to see this business thrive to try and take out or down as many of those who are not legal as possible. Without the money that was stolen from them the manus simply can not continue in the business of producing new music and without new music the shows become stale and die. Eventually Karaoke is just something that takes up space in the garage and is no longer a viable business. Personally I want to see them gone, but as long as we have those who are trying everything they can do or say to support piracy it just drags it out further and further. Put enough pirates on this ship and eventually it will sink![/quote]
Ya think? Wasn't it cheerleader Jennifer Price that used the terms "STRONGARM" & "MOB TACTICS when it comes to being contacted by SC's attorneys?"
Besides, when it comes to new music, I don't believe that SC is keeping up with the times, are you?
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diafel
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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:53 am |
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:27 am
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Thunder wrote: Personally I want to see them gone, but as long as we have those who are trying everything they can do or say to support piracy it just drags it out further and further. Personally, I want to see the stinking trolls disappear, but that's not going to happen any time soon, is it? You can't always get what you want. karaoke for food, thanks for you support. It's much appreciated.
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karaoke for food.....
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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:25 am |
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User "Thunder"
Are you calling me, or anyone here a thief? if you are, please clearly say so. Also please send me a PM with your contact info. Name, where you can be reached, phone number would be helpful. Exact times between 9AM to 5PM that you can be reached for service. Please clearly state on this forum by user name who exactly you are slandering by calling them dishonest. And if the sleps have influenced your opinion please clearly state that as well. Thank You
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Sweet Little Me In Karaokeland........
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Alex
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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:39 am |
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:40 am
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Thunder wrote: Actually those are not the lone voices they are but two of the voices of the proletariat congregation of corsairs who cheer on the aegis argot that they have become known for!
What ultimately surfaces is that those who make the claims that the actions of the Manus are intimidation, coercion, threatening, and simple harassment, are generally found to be the very ones that the manus are looking for. It is incumbent upon those who are legal and want to see this business thrive to try and take out or down as many of those who are not legal as possible. Without the money that was stolen from them the manus simply can not continue in the business of producing new music and without new music the shows become stale and die. Eventually Karaoke is just something that takes up space in the garage and is no longer a viable business. Personally I want to see them gone, but as long as we have those who are trying everything they can do or say to support piracy it just drags it out further and further. Put enough pirates on this ship and eventually it will sink! I'm usually staying out of those piracy debates, simply for the same reason that Lonman expressed, no one here is an attorney or has enough legal background. And therefor everything else written here is purely assumptions/opinions. And therefor a waste of time for me. Having said that, I'm sorry, but you're either misinformed or think terribly wrong. The whole "SC Pirate Hunt" is NOT(!) making pirates disappear. All they do is offer those pirates a settlement and continue with their business as usual. On top those settlements are a joke compared to what honest KJ's payed altogether for those songs on disks. That was already discussed here several times.
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karaoke for food.....
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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:57 pm |
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Thanks sevarin, i most generally don't chime in neither, but some people just cross the line. I spent over $3,200 in about 15 minutes with sound choice one afternoon purchasing disc. I was given a free ball cap, drink holders, key chain, posters you name it for appreciation from sound choice for my large single purchase. I still have the receipt, and mementos given me. And it just burns my rump when someone insinuates, and implies i'm a thief. Best prove it. I'm semiretired, live alone, and have a kid that's done two duties in iraq. I have nothing but time on my hands. I would travel to anyplace in the country for a lawsuit to defend my reputation. Have attorney....will travel. 
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Sweet Little Me In Karaokeland........
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c. staley
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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:58 pm |
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Sevarin wrote: The whole "SC Pirate Hunt" is NOT(!) making pirates disappear. All they do is offer those pirates a settlement and continue with their business as usual. On top those settlements are a joke compared to what honest KJ's payed altogether for those songs on disks. That was already discussed here several times.  Somebody mail this man a ceegar! SC said long ago that their interest is simply to "turn pirates into customers" and what a hell of a financed discount they offer as well.
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