Karaoke Forums

I love tricera.. If my daughter was older I'd be more than happy to let such a pillar of our community date her.

Don't think I'd let her near any of those KIAA guys though. Maybe when they mature a bit more, but by that time they'd be dead.

(edit: of natural causes/age/whatever)

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

I did. What I said was that the manufacturers cannot grant dowload licensing, not can the download site.

As Tricerasoft said, that doesn't mean a KJ can't go to the music owners and buy licensing for each and every track for use in U.S. based shows.- anything can be bought.

Not workable in practicality though. Not just because one would have to find each and every music owner for each and every track ( one heckuva long process), and then pay a separate fee for each and every track, but then one would have to find a karaoke track that was ALSO LICENSED in the U.S by the owners to be produced. If they didn't make the track that will be a toughie too ( Actually, close to impossible).

I'm not quite sure what Tricerasoft meant in regard to site licensing. No download site can give bulk download licensing in the U.S. - unless they OWN all of the music that they are offering.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

. . . or have NEGOTIATED the license to do so. That can be by proxy using an agency such as SOCAN or PRS (outside the US - we're still in the dark ages here), or directly with the publisher/artist whichever is appropriate/easiest/most feasible.

Netflix isn't streaming all their movies illegally, AND they make the copies of the DVDs they send you in house - legally. They negotiated a LICENSE to do that.

The US karaoke manufacturers DON'T offer downloads, because they WON'T license their tracks for download. THEN USE THE LAW AS A FEEBLE EXCUSE TO SAY THEY CAN'T. All the while ignoring the fact that there's ample proof in the US and overseas that just such a license can be, and has been, negotiated. Basically, all the law in the US says is that you have to negotiate the license FIRST, since there is no compulsory sync license.

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Dave's not here.

Joe, in the end everybody loves money. Throw enough money at it, and the US licensees will figure out a way around the US laws, which they have done(such as offering worldwide downloads via license agencies in other countries, which DO have agreements with ASCAP/BMI/SESAC or the original owners)

When I buy a song from tricera, a cut of that goes to let's say, Zoom, who paid their license to either a license agency, who paid a bit of money to our big 3 or the original copyright holder.

The only ones that could sue, well.. nobody. Everyone is getting paid, and happy. Suing over trivial BS like format shifting is just shooting yourself in the foot. No licensee will commit suicide like that if they get paid.

It's why we see SC karaoke downloads being sold as "The karaoke channel", because they re license to the stingray in the UK. You read "aria karaoke's" website, or even the karaoke channels website, and they state "THESE CAN BE USED IN A PRO ENVIRONMENT"

My issue now with them is this. Zoom, Sunfly, and other content providers, through working with tricera has created a system which any karaoke software maker can interface. This is a good thing, it gives many parties an interest in selling content for the manu's.


"Karaoke channel", or other KIAA members don't offer me, or anyone else that opportunity. Instead of sticking with what they're good at (producing content) they're trying make their own systems with 1/2 baked authentication schemes that they've come up with on their own, instead of relying on the tried, true, free, developped by Sun Microsystems and others in the 90's stuff that's out there now.

Which is smarter Joe? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

Well put. And in addition Sunfly, SBI and Zoom have gone to direct licensing with publishers because of the MCPS restrictions (you know why this happened), so they now have universal licenses. It doesn't matter where they reside because they have the licenses DIRECT from the owner of the copyright. The only thing that this BS caused them is more paperwork, but they overcame this and proved to us all that they are devoted to supplying you KJs legal content (no matter where you are). If they didn't give a damn they would of continued to use MCPS for their UK customers and ignored the rest of the world, but they care about us so they took the extra step. And we covered our part, so life is good. Support them for putting in the effort.

Thank you TriceraSoft1 for you direct answer!!!
I look forward to checking out you music to see if I can fill voids in my library.

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I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

Sorry Rob, but this is we starting disagreeing way back on Fat Sid's board:

UK Download sites, while licensed for show use IN THE UK, are not licensed for the same here. If you are using tracks downloaded from a UK site for use in running a karaoke show IN THE U.S., you run the risk of being sued by the Music Owners/Publishers. No U.S. license for that use has EVER been drafted, and UK licensing for the tracks is not recognized here. Even the UK agencies state that ( hence, the latest ban on import for resale and distribution), which would also lead me to question whether U.S. artists are getting paid at all from that source.

WILL the the music owners/publishers ever bother to sue individual karaoke hosts here? I have no idea. However, if they do, they will win. At the very least, a cease and desist.

BTW- As far as artists being happy and paid....um, no. They are even suing BMI, ASCAP, and other so-called artists orgs, because THEY are pocketing what they CLAIM they are collecting for the artists. Let's not even start on what the recording companies screw them out of...

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Seriously doubt this will ever happen on a single KJ from a music owner/publisher. Especially if the song WAS licsensed somewhere and they got their cut, the KJ actually paid for the disc - AND the bar they are playing in pays their publishing fees. Never seen this kind of lawsuit to date & would bet dollars to donuts I never will.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Tricera.......
sorry to continue pushing the issue, but we have all been adamantly told by the big 3 that no downloads are usable for pro use in the U.S.
so to be direct about it and remove all doubt,
are you saying that if i buy downloads from the Tricerasoft site, i am just as legal and safe as if i had bought them on CD for use as a professional KJ in the U.S. working for profit?
again, apologies for the direct and blunt nature, but i believe only a direct yes or no will be enough to stop the speculations one way or the other.
thank you for being here and joining in.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Legislatures don't "draft" IP licenses, Joe. They're agreements (a.k.a. contracts) between two people or businesses. Even the compulsory mechanicals of the US are are superseded by private agreements. US publishers have decided they won't honor the UK agreements brokered by MCPS, and are forcing the UK companies to make direct private agreements. Apparently they're doing the same thing to SOCAN and others. Why? 'Cause they can.



Surely you can't be referring to the racist ravings of "General" Bobby Farrell of Vandor Music Group?

I'm an unknown BMI artist. I get paid for live performances of my music. How? I log them directly with BMI through their "BMI Live" program. I can call my regional rep and talk directly to him if I need to. He's a pretty nice guy I'm pretty happy with them.

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Dave's not here.

Sure, push all you want but consider this (and it is the LAST thing I am saying on this matter so you can make up whatever conspiracy you want after); Since karaoke licenses are provided and work exactly like Music and Videos (EXACTLY THE SAME!! - we have them!) especially in respect to USE (who ever brings up sync again I will slap them because it has nothing to do with this conversation, we are talking about "USE" of the master and replay of the "original work" (the part you hear (or "see") that makes it sound familiar and popular in respect to the license you hold) ), assuming that the provider and manufacturer are legal (paying proper licensing to create the content) -- and it has NOTHING to do with location either (i.e. USA) because if you are licensed by the copyright owner it is UNIVERSAL (meaning; you made an agreement with the owner therefore sell it ANYWHERE in the world) AND it was permitted by the manufacturer to USE in a show and accounted for (it is their master after all, they can say what you can do with it and if they agree you can use the stuff as an entertainer then you covered their "royalty") AND the content was represented for Entertainment (NO, a CD that is bought from WalMart is NOT for DJ use, it is released for HOME use ONLY - the manufacturer of those discs ONLY want you to use it at home) which includes For Entertainment or Promotional Use - SO FAR EVERYTHING HERE IS ALL KOSHER -- SO SOLELY Based ONLY on IF (AND ONLY IF) it was permitted or covered by the "BLANKET LICENSE" for replay for the "original work" by ASCAP/BMI/SOCAN/AMCOS/etc (who are paid and hired by the Publishers to collect this money) who clearly state in their PRIVATE VENUE CONTRACTS "Karaoke and Videos" (and "Do you have an entertainer") on their forms, on the theory that this is somehow NOT enough "coverage" then every DJ, KJ, and VJ in a VENUE playing CDs, LPs, Downloads, SD Cards, Bands IN THE WORLD!! are illegal Because this is actually how it does work. SO, in conclusion, if a manufacturer is not paying their license or is being a prick about their content use, the reseller is an illegal bastard, and your VENUE is a cheap SOB trying to get away from paying their entertainment license then yeah maybe you are SOL but a Publisher would first attack the source (starting with the Manufacturer then the Agency, they are NOT stupid). And not forgetting if you intend to do something stupid like resell the tracks yourself or burn discs illegally thinking you have the right to then you deserve the manufacturer or publisher on your back, but otherwise you are good. If you still see a hole in this, I recommend you simply pack up your equipment and hide under a tree because it DOESN'T MATTER what medium you are using if the licenses are in-place, if you actually believe there is no coverage then simply you have made yourself illegal right from the start and you should not perform shows based on the theory "No one in the USA can perform a show with content - AT ALL!" (Horse poop!).

And for Canadians a reminder that you can use Home CDs bought from Walmart in your Show - the AVLA provides a license called a "CD License" which permits this and partners with Publishers (regular CDs are manufactured by the Labels who are also represented by the Publishers) to take a small extra fee per year (which is an extra small fee spread over it's USE which you would normally pay for an ENTERTAINMENT disc upfront for its USE - I explained this before) - it costs around $100 per year to make ALL your discs per machine permitted for "USE" as an entertainer (again proving that ALL your theories are wrong). They also provide a "Digital Hard-Drive License" which allows you to convert all your discs to MP3 on a hard-drive, so this gives you permission again from the Publishers to use your discs in different format. AGAIN proving that for the right price and by PERMISSION from the owner of the master you can do anything.

Amendment: I just checked and they now combine the Physical and Digital license together and call it "Standard "All-in-One" Licence" (I should note it is "combined" so it is more expensive) - refer here:

http://www.avla.ca/disc-jockeys/dj-lice ... cence.aspx

And read this, it re-explains what I just said (just in case you thing I'm biased or misleading you):

http://www.avla.ca/about-avla.aspx

If you are obtaining songs already licensed for USE as an entertainer, then the above are not required (and you don't have to be Canadian ).

PS: Thank you moonrider (I mean that sincerely).

Bravo Tricera!

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"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

I just want to throw something out here too about the "big 3"

Never once have they publicly said, "Tricerasofts downloads are illegal" or zoom, or sunfly, or SBI, etc. Sure, they say "Karaoke downloads are illegal" but have they ever once specifically called out any of these sites (or publishers?) If they believed that karaoke downloads were illegal, they would name names and stop being so vague.

Joe:

Don't forget, SC is using the exact same way to get around this as everyone else. Karaoke Channel karaoke (sc relicensed to stingray (aka Derek Slep) is being offered on Select A Track. Sold worldwide and as it states on the site "OK FOR PRO USE WORLDWIDE"

What's really happening here?

Also where is this mysterious law (put into effect this year) that suddenly made import karaoke illegal? Have they ever ONCE given a link to the actual law? I asked my Japanese Karaoke singing congressman if he remembered any such law being passed, he said no. Even on these forums, people keep parroting what Norbert said at mobile beat, BUT NOT ONCE HAS ANYONE PROVIDED A LINK TO THE LAW STATING IMPORT KARAOKE IS ILLEGAL.





And fat sid's board, hey.. Long as you're not knocking my tech stuff, or answering my tech posts with "Well, I use CD's" I'm fine.

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

Sorry Tricerasoft, unless it has very recently changed, AVLA doesn't cover CDGs or anything with lyrics on them due to the Sync licencing.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I told you sync is covered and paid by the manufacturer/reseller and to get off it, it's part of OUR license, not your concern - AVLA is there for making the disc accesible to you as an entertainer (read their About - "USE" of the copyright, oh wait that is what we are talking about) - ofcourse if you believe the contrary then no one is legal - NO ONE! By your account NO KJ IS LEGAL (Disc or Not, USA, Uganda, Timbuktu, NO WHERE). So if your theory holds true you have a choice, A) continue to KJ and fight to stop idiot manufacturers going after you for something you can't change (NO, reselling you the same song again does not change this - if this were true then they would not have the power or license, so why go after you) and accept that EVERYTHING is being done in your favor to please the publishers -OR- B) stop being a KJ (because apparently you all think there is no such way of giving permission). Because if this were true you can't do anything about it at all and neither can the manufacturers. But it's bullshit so surprise surprise you can still work as a KJ. Wow - not sure why we keep paying over 15% GROSS of our song sales to these agencies and paying near half of the song revenue to the manufacturers every quarter, maybe we should stop since there is NO SUCH LICENSE!! (and "we" I mean not just us, but other services and Venues who pay for the entertainment). Wow, sounds like a massive lawsuit against all KJ's using Karaoke, someone is going to make alot of money (oh wait a second, KJs have to use karaoke to entertain - WHO KNEW!!). People THINK!

Honestly I was just trying to sing to myself but a bunch of friends joined along!

Timblea, if it's good enough for SC, it's good enough for anyone else. (referencing sc tracks foreign re licensed as "karaoke channel tracks" sold on select-a-track)

wow, i was just asking for a yes or no, but i guess that was a yes? a sunfly download from tricerasoft is just as safe and legal to use in the U.S. as a sunfly disc because tricerasoft paid the necessary fees and sunfly paid theirs when creating the tracks?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Only Sunfly DID NOT pay it's US licensing for their discs so they are not legal anymore in the US. All they paid was their MSPS or whatever the agency is called and that isn't legal anymore in the US.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

How do you know that danny? Heard it from the big3? If you got an email or something to that effect, post it up here, I'm sure Sunfly would love to send a NAL if SC's been saying that stuff behind the scenes.

It's already been referred to in other posts on KS. But yes it is true. The fact that products have entered the US before Jan 1to beat the deadline that the new rules for that angency has adopted has been cited by Lonman. I'd love for Chartbuster to come in here and confirm what I am saying is true but the anti-SC methods crowd has managed to run them off.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.