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 Post subject: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:02 am 
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Was interested in hearing if Piracy is still alive and well in your area. Down here in Florida, it is still a force and more pirates are coming out of the woodwork. You tube Karaoke has also made its way down here as well.

It has yet to effect my current shows but I'm starting to see more signs of illegal karaoke. What say you?

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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:34 am 
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Piracy is cheaper now.
Many pirates will sell IP for pennies, asking only to "Copy" the files to a hard drive.
Youtube (I believe) does pay a small amount on songs.
I'm guessing a lot like other "Streaming platforms.
Legal KJs still pay for songs. Some are downloaded as needed, some from legal sources.
As for me, I buy.
(Disclaimer: A major wholesaler of CD+G product is 2 miles from my house)

ps: They also sell pron. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:12 pm 
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spotlightjr wrote:
Was interested in hearing if Piracy is still alive and well in your area. Down here in Florida, it is still a force and more pirates are coming out of the woodwork. You tube Karaoke has also made its way down here as well.

It has yet to effect my current shows but I'm starting to see more signs of illegal karaoke. What say you?

I don't know if YouTube would call it piracy considering all of their videos now have a download button. Even if you don't pay YouTube's subscription fee, there are a million other ways to download them. I'm not sure how they would legally come after anyone for using them. It's not like a Sound Choice CDG. No one can walk into a bar and determine if what's on the screen was paid for or not.

If a KJ is streaming directly from YouTube, which some do, they're thinking as long as the venue is paying their ASCAP and BMI fees, where is the legal problem? This isn't like the old days. Just because you don't have a physical CD or DVD to back it up, doesn't necessarily make it illegal to play something in public. That's kinda the purpose of BMI and ASCAP. Regardless of what artists works are played, and regardless of format or source, they still get paid.

With YouTube videos, proving you purchased a physical disc is no longer required, so owning digital copies is no longer probable cause for piracy on it's own. Times have definitely changed, but there is a certain satisfaction in purchasing legal songs as needed and having copies on your hard drive. If the internet ever goes down, you'll know what I mean real fast.


Last edited by Bob Latshaw on Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:53 am 
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I would have to disagree with Bob. YouTube may be fine for personal use but using them in a public establishment such as a bar, where you're profiting off of them, makes you liable for copyright infringement.

Secondly... how unprofessional is that??!! YouTube videos have commercials in them. Seriously?? And you're going to use them in a professional environment??

Next, we have the sound quality issue. The audio quality is bad. It's severely compressed. Not even in the same league as a legitimate (paid) download or CDG.

Anyone who uses YouTube videos to run their show is not very professional and doesn't care about sound quality. I would never do it. My standards are much higher.

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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:31 am 
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Every content creator on YouTube can set their own audio quality level if they want. They're MP4 videos, no different than the ones you could buy from Karaoke-Version or anywhere else. They all use the same group of audio codecs and they're all adjustable for different quality levels. If certain videos sound bad, then that's a flaw in the source audio.

As far as copyright, the copyright holders (or their representative) are getting paid by YouTube whether the ads get watched or you pay the YouTube subscription fee. There are some YouTube content creators that are falsely posing as the copyright holder and that's a legal matter between YouTube and the original copyright holder.

Are they legal for public performances? Probably not, which is why you need to get your karaoke from the original manufacturers, or one of their affiliates just to be sure ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:38 am 
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Alan B wrote:
Secondly... how unprofessional is that??!! YouTube videos have commercials in them. Seriously?? And you're going to use them in a professional environment??

The only time I've personally witnessed it, the KJ was rather clever and queued up the video in a separate browser window, waited for the ad to play through silently in the background, paused it, and then waited for the singer's turn and unpaused it. Song videos are short enough that YouTube won't place ads in the middle of them, so the only ads you need to "bypass" are always at the beginning.

It's the ultimate form of being cheap if you can't even pay their small subscription fee to make sure that the content creators are receiving something. Legit creators like Sunfly and Stingray are on YouTube, but use different business models. Sunfly only places what appears to be public domain stuff on their YouTube channel as a teaser to get you to go purchase from their web site, while Stingray provides non-public domain stuff in long videos that require you to watch the ads in the middle, and they earn revenue from that. It couldn't possibly be used at karaoke bar and that's the point.

Most of the "good stuff" isn't legit, but sadly a lot KJs don't care. Especially if it's a song for which there is no legal way to purchase the track online. They justify it by saying "If a legal version is available, I'll buy it. If not, I'll just get it from YouTube". Whoever started the CC Karaoke Channel seems to be quite aware of this phenomenon. They have the original background music for virtually all of their karaoke tracks(which is really what every singer would prefer). The lyric graphics are cheap looking basic black and white, but who cares if you have the original background music? Right? Now, if there was a legal site that sold karaoke versions of songs with the original background music licensed for public performances, I'm pretty sure KJs would flock there by the thousands. However, since they don't, KJs take the next best option, free. I'm sure artists know that if they released karaoke versions of their stuff with the original background music, people would buy it over any other version without question. Taylor Swift did it and it worked out quite well. I wish more would do the same. I'm sure some of you have the old Singing Machine karaoke tracks that have the original Motown background music on them. They're some of the best karaoke tracks ever made. Nothing beats the original background music. It's the final frontier of karaoke tracks. Whoever figures out how to legally capitalize on it, will reap the rewards.


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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:35 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
It's the ultimate form of being cheap if you can't even pay their small subscription fee to make sure that the content creators are receiving something.

Let me rephrase that sentence by adding the word "fairly" to the end. Content creators still get paid, but I don't consider it fair if the advertisers are being duped into thinking their ads are getting viewed when they're not. That's the whole point of YouTube's subscription, so that the creators and copyright holders still get paid even without ads needing to be seen. Still doesn't make any YouTube video legal for playing in public venues, and that's the crux of the problem, and I think we can all agree on that. I'm just saying we also can't pretend that the problem is not happening, or it's never going to get better.


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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:00 pm 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
and that's the crux of the problem

Dear Mr. Latshaw (a man of the earth),

Let me just say this... anyone who uses YouTube videos to run their shows is a low life, bottom of the barrel karaoke host. It is someone who is trying to take the easy way out and certainly doesn't care about running a quality show. Not to mention, he's putting the bar at risk of a lawsuit for copyright infringement.

These people are no better than those using illegal loaded hard drives to run their shows. Personally, I would never support these hosts. Actually, amateurs or hobbyists would be a better name.

What was once a very respectable and profitable business, has been ruined by these idiots running karaoke these days. What's even worse is the bars that hire them. Them must be paying them $25 for the night.

For me, I set my standards high. I put on a high quality show and I provide amazing sound quality (2 Evolve 50's, digial mixer, etc.). I do it because "sound" is the business you're in. But so many KJ's have no clue how to do sound. It's just set it and forget it. And it sucks.

So, using inferior YouTube videos is a disgrace. We call people like this a$$holes and cheap fu*ks. Thank you for reading.

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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:56 pm 
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Dear Alan B (apparently from another planet),

I completely agree in principle, except for the name calling part. That's not necessary. Especially in a public forum. If you have a problem with one particular KJ, tell them to their face or in a personal message, but publicly calling them all names doesn't help our cause of trying to get them to prefer legal downloads.

Again, I'm not defending them, but I'm also not sticking my head in the sand and pretending it's not happening either. Most of the people here seem to be very thin skinned over the mere existence of piracy, and even the mention of it causes an angry rant just like yours. Until a far more perfect system is invented, piracy is going to be around for a while. There will always be those who try to skirt the rules to get ahead, and there will always be those who do their best to follow all the rules possible. There are also 2 kinds of rule followers. Those who stand proud of themselves for following the rules and choose to ignore the rule breakers, and then there are those who can't stop being angry that even one person is getting away with breaking the rules. The latter is not the happier way to live. Don't be a Karen. Life's too short.

There are people who are using cracked versions of our software. It doesn't do me any good to get angry about it. The people who steal things aren't as happy. I've seen them. Those are the KJs who need to always lie low and always keep looking over their shoulder. They don't stand proud. They can't. THAT is the price they pay for being pirates. Being able to stand tall is the benefit you get for knowing you're legal. Having the ability to call the rule breakers names is not a benefit. Your anger doesn't hurt them. It only hurts you.


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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:17 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
Having the ability to call the rule breakers names is not a benefit.

Of course, it is. At the very least, it makes one feel better. Now, read on...

My dear friend, Mr. Latshaw...

I will speak from a personal standpoint. Now, I have never been one to sugarcoat anything. I speak the truth and say how I feel. That's the Italian in me. LOL.

Someone who is breaking the "rules" as you put it, deserves to be treated in this manner. If you are a KJ who is operating illegally, either by using a loaded hard drive, or YouTube videos, then you deserve to be called those names. Why? Because you're hurting the industry and screwing your fellow KJ's who have "paid the price". Most of us have worked very hard for many years to provide our customers a great karaoke experience. That includes a quality "legal" library of music, and awesome sound.

These low life's, are the reason a KJ's rate of pay has taken such a hit. They don't have any investment in music... it's stolen... and they've set a precedent to bar owners.

I stand behind what I said... If a KJ willfully operates using pirated music or YouTube videos, then you are the bottom of the barrel scum.

And Bob, for what it's worth... they DO deserve to be called any name you can think of. Obviously, they don't care about you and how they are giving a bad name to karaoke, so why should you care about them. Or what you call these dickwads.

And sorry... but that's how I feel. And I'm sure there are others who feel the same way.

And as always, Bob... thanks for reading. Have a great day.

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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:58 am 
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If you're a representative of the legal KJs, I'm sure some of the illegal ones you so despise are looking at your words and thinking "Why would I want to be like him?". I don't think that's the way to get people on board with purchasing from legal sources if you are our example of what they will become.


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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:07 pm 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
If you're a representative of the legal KJs, I'm sure some of the illegal ones you so despise are looking at your words and thinking "Why would I want to be like him?". I don't think that's the way to get people on board with purchasing from legal sources if you are our example of what they will become.

And at the same time, the legal ones are reading my words and saying "bravo". While my words may not be popular with the "illegal" host, I'm not out to win a popularity contest.

It sounds to me like you're trying to defend the illegal ones. But in my opinion, there's no place for them in this industry. An industry that they've already done much damage to. So, again... referring to them by using these names, IMO, is appropriate.

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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:07 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
While my words may not be popular with the "illegal" host, I'm not out to win a popularity contest.

Those kind of words aren't popular with most people, regardless of the legal status of their music collection. You can vent your point on any subject without name calling using profanity. It's also technically a rule here at karaokescene if I'm not mistaken.

If I may quote Phill Cross from 2004
Phill Cross wrote:
4) You must be courteous to others and ENJOY!
I won't repeat what you called them, but "courteous" ain't the word to describe it. See Alan, even you can break a rule without anyone calling you a name ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:29 pm 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
Alan B wrote:
While my words may not be popular with the "illegal" host, I'm not out to win a popularity contest.

Those kind of words aren't popular with most people, regardless of the legal status of their music collection. You can vent your point on any subject without name calling using profanity. It's also technically a rule here at karaokescene if I'm not mistaken.

If I may quote Phill Cross from 2004
Phill Cross wrote:
4) You must be courteous to others and ENJOY!
I won't repeat what you called them, but "courteous" ain't the word to describe it. See Alan, even you can break a rule without anyone calling you a name ;)

Bob, let's be clear... I am NOT specifically calling out or calling names to anyone on this forum. But I am calling out hosts in general, who probably don't even know that this site exists, for their shady practices. These low lives deserve no respect whatsoever.

Again, why are you defending them? If you want to defend someone, defend the KJ's who are playing by the rules and trying to make an honest living.

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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2022 11:06 am 
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Alan B wrote:
Again, why are you defending them?

I'm not defending them. This isn't about them. I'm condemning you for the language.


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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 1:11 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
Alan B wrote:
Again, why are you defending them?

I'm not defending them. This isn't about them. I'm condemning you for the language.

Sorry you find my "language" so offensive. As I've said, I do not sugarcoat anything. I say what I feel. And the way I feel about people who operate illegally, is that they are lowlife scum. Have a nice day.

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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 2:05 pm 
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Bob, first of all you are a very interesting human specimen. With that said...

I remember reading several posts about your arrogance regarding your customers. People have complained that you are rude, condescending, and even hung on people asking for help because you thought they were stupid. These are customers who own your software.

So, my friend... here you are taking issue with me name calling the illegal hosts when you yourself haven't been the nicest person to some people... especially the people who aggravate you or piss you off. Your own customers.

But... I still like you and get a chuckle from your posts. You're the person that I'd like to have a beer with. I'm sure it would be a lot of fun. Thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:16 pm 
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[quote="spotlightjr"]Was interested in hearing if Piracy is still alive and well in your area. Down here in Florida, it is still a force and more pirates are coming out of the woodwork. You tube Karaoke has also made its way down here as well.

It has yet to effect my current shows but I'm starting to see more signs of illegal karaoke. What say you?[/quote]
This is problematic since if this will continue than it may affect your shows but i don.t know if there is a way to stop the pirates since there are so many of theme but for youtube there maybe away if a lot of peopel will complain about this than maybe there will be a change in YouTube algoritm


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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2022 10:17 am 
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It has gotten progressively worse down here. My wife and I operate a pretty decent size entertainment company and get numerous calls a week for karaoke, trivia, bingo etc. I'm noticing that more than a few have went with illegal hosts for karaoke because I follow up with a phone call or a personal visit to the venue.
The last 4 or 5 are all either loaded hard drives or straight up you tube. I'm not too concerned because we have a pretty strong presence in our area, just wondering if these pirating bastards have made it anywhere else.

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 Post subject: Re: Piracy and you tube
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2022 1:09 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
Bob, first of all you are a very interesting human specimen. With that said...

I remember reading several posts about your arrogance regarding your customers. People have complained that you are rude, condescending, and even hung on people asking for help because you thought they were stupid. These are customers who own your software.

So, my friend... here you are taking issue with me name calling the illegal hosts when you yourself haven't been the nicest person to some people... especially the people who aggravate you or piss you off. Your own customers.

But... I still like you and get a chuckle from your posts. You're the person that I'd like to have a beer with. I'm sure it would be a lot of fun. Thank you.

I've offended people in private messages. This is a public forum. Just trying to keep it clean for any kids or future KJs who may be reading this.

Yes, I'm sure a conversation over a couple beers would be fun. I could finally see if you're actually an alien, because you seem to prefer calling me a "human specimen" :)


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