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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 6:56 am 
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Today we updated the iCroons database in an off-schedule update. Normally it's usually done on the first or second of the month, but April was skipped as we were watching everything grind to a halt. May was almost skipped because Party Tyme's update for us didn't appear on their end. On the 12th, I did an unannounced update of only new Karaoke-Version tracks, but today I incorporated the new updates from Party Tyme as well. With almost two months since updating fully, there's over 1600 tracks in the new releases section.

The regular update schedule should resume June 1.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:18 am 
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I love iCroons!

By the way, I think you should update your Zoom library. For example, I know Zoom has Donovan's "Universal Soldier" but I don't see it listed on iCroons.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:08 am 
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zeke wrote:
I love iCroons!

By the way, I think you should update your Zoom library. For example, I know Zoom has Donovan's "Universal Soldier" but I don't see it listed on iCroons.


Unfortunately, not only does Zoom not have any affiliation system setup for us to refer track purchases, but we can't even put their catalogue into the archive section because their publicly downloadable file only includes title and artist information with no track ID. If you'd like to see them included, pester them into adding TrackIDs into their publicly available catalogue. If you'd like to see Zoom direct download links like we have with PartyTyme and Karaoke-Version, tell them to setup an affiliate program and we'll be on it like white on rice.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:14 am 
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Unfortunately, not only does Zoom not have any affiliation system setup for us to refer track purchases, but we can't even put their catalogue into the archive section because their publicly downloadable file only includes title and artist information with no track ID. If you'd like to see them included, pester them into adding TrackIDs into their publicly available catalogue. If you'd like to see Zoom direct download links like we have with PartyTyme and Karaoke-Version, tell them to setup an affiliate program and we'll be on it like white on rice.

If they provide an update to date list that only provides artist and title, why do you need a track ID?


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:28 am 
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zeke wrote:
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Unfortunately, not only does Zoom not have any affiliation system setup for us to refer track purchases, but we can't even put their catalogue into the archive section because their publicly downloadable file only includes title and artist information with no track ID. If you'd like to see them included, pester them into adding TrackIDs into their publicly available catalogue. If you'd like to see Zoom direct download links like we have with PartyTyme and Karaoke-Version, tell them to setup an affiliate program and we'll be on it like white on rice.

If they provide an update to date list that only provides artist and title, why do you need a track ID?


People need a way to get that track, and they either need a DiscID or TrackID to search for. Every karaoke track has a TrackID (or DiscID if you're old school). It's a unique letter and number combination that is only for that specific track from that specific manufacturer. Some manufacturers have redone tracks later and then used a different DiscID to signify the difference between the old track and the new one. That's just one of an infinite number of reasons why the karaoke industry uses this type of system. Virtually all forms of media have some type of cataloging system. Zoom is no different, but since they don't have an affiliation program, they probably don't want hackers to figure out a way to point to specific tracks on their site.

After searching their site, I couldn't find a single song that was actually available to click on. They were all listed as "currently unavailable".


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 12:32 pm 
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Already saw all the Party Tyme (along with all others) updates as they came out on another.

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 2:23 pm 
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Lonman wrote:
Already saw all the Party Tyme (along with all others) updates as they came out on another.

In what way is that informative? Why not fill in the blanks so that others reading this can learn something? Where's the "another"? What are the "all others"? and where can we find them? These are questions the uninformed KJ may have. You've been here so long, I think you forgot the purpose of this place.

Either that, or you honestly thought there were readers out there here who had the thought "Gee, I wonder if Lonman has already known about the latest updates from all the karaoke manufacturers. I need to know whether he's been properly serviced in that area." and of course you were just being polite and letting them have the answer they were so desperately seeking. If so, I apologize. You were just doing your followers a good service by keeping them up to date on the success of your agenda. Perfectly normal.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 2:48 pm 
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You're right - should have included that info. Already knew all the new releases from Open KJ https://db.openkj.org/
It lists Karaoke Version, Party Tyme, Sunfly, SBI, Zoom, All Star, Digitrax. Updated on a daily basis not weeks.

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 3:54 pm 
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The Open KJ one has the Zoom catalog, that's cool. Seems like it is missing Sweet Georgia Brown though.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:13 pm 
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zeke wrote:
I love iCroons!

By the way, I think you should update your Zoom library. For example, I know Zoom has Donovan's "Universal Soldier" but I don't see it listed on iCroons.

correct, https://db.openkj.org/ shows the disc numbers, it on disc ZM05965

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:34 pm 
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Lonman wrote:
You're right - should have included that info. Already knew all the new releases from Open KJ https://db.openkj.org/
It lists Karaoke Version, Party Tyme, Sunfly, SBI, Zoom, All Star, Digitrax. Updated on a daily basis not weeks.


Although it seems impressive that they have more tracks listed from more places, for American KJs, it's mostly stuff they can't even buy. We're not going to list tracks that can't be purchased here in the US. We've got customers in over 72 counties, but with over 80% of them being here in the US, I refuse to tease them with tracks that can't be legally purchased, or tracks that require a cloud connection or service.

Believe me, I wish Party Tyme and Karaoke-Version weren't the only 2 manufacturers that Americans can legally download from on the fly. I could do the same thing with iCroons, but I'm also smart enough to know it would come with constant questions that started with the words "why can't I...." and I don't like pissing people off unless they pissed me off first. It's bad Karma ;)

Being a .ORG site and a non-profit gives them the advantage of never really having to answer to anyone. They will never get the "well I bought your software with the impression that I could get access to all these songs, and now I find out I can't because I live in the US. I want my money back".

openkj.org does serve a very good purpose, and if I were a KJ outside America or a KJ who didn't mind the idea of paying a monthly service fee to a cloud service, I'd be glad they existed. Unfortunately, we have paying customers with higher expectations. Also, I think it's important to send a message to those sites that won't sell to America. Someone needs to stand up to them and try to influence the laws in those countries to better cater to American clientele. openKJ.org has no dog in the fight. What do they care how things affect American companies like mine? or if American KJs are best served? They don't and they never will. That's not their business model.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 6:03 pm 
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I am noticing karaoke software/websites seem to be a controversial subject on this forum...

I really just wish there was a search engine that included every single known karaoke track, from any manufacturer, regardless of if I can buy it online or not. I am usually trying to figure out if a track has even been made for karaoke, and then step two is acquiring it. Both of the karaoke search websites in this thread are really pretty good, but I was easily able to find a manufacturer lacking in both. (Zoom and SGB.) Oh well.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 11:25 pm 
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US kj's may not be able to buy them directly, but they can at least see they are available - and the fact they get updated daily is perfect. SBI, Digitrax, All Star - US kj's can buy from without restrictions or having to bypass any sort of IP blocks.
Zoom & Sunfly would be the only restricted ones currently. I buy custom discs for those through a UK friend that sends them over to me after I pay her.

It's not a paid software either. Just a search engine to see if tracks are available. His hosting software actually interfaces with Party Tyme store for direct purchase. No one gets the software thinking they can have access to all the tracks.

But like Zeke said, I am more interested in seeing if songs are simply available at all vs whether I can buy them right now. That is all Isaac was trying to do, have a complete database of as many download site listings possible - not just certain ones, but all that can be found. His old disc listing is something left to be desired since it was kind of an afterthought that many kj's pushed him into - that's where musicbookdeluxe fills that bill when I need to find a song from a disc. Just knowing it's available gives me a hope of actually getting it.

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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 2:18 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
Believe me, I wish Party Tyme and Karaoke-Version weren't the only 2 manufacturers that Americans can legally download from on the fly.

they aren't.

Bob Latshaw wrote:
Being a .ORG site and a non-profit gives them the advantage of never really having to answer to anyone. They will never get the "well I bought your software with the impression that I could get access to all these songs, and now I find out I can't because I live in the US. I want my money back".

what money? it's free

Bob Latshaw wrote:
openkj.org does serve a very good purpose, and if I were a KJ outside America or a KJ who didn't mind the idea of paying a monthly service fee to a cloud service, I'd be glad they existed.

monthly fee? what are you talking about?
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Also, I think it's important to send a message to those sites that won't sell to America. Someone needs to stand up to them and try to influence the laws in those countries to better cater to American clientele.

it's not the sites refusing to sell here, it's American telling them they can't sell here. the US laws are so convoluted that they can't.
Bob Latshaw wrote:
openKJ.org has no dog in the fight. What do they care how things affect American companies like mine? or if American KJs are best served? They don't and they never will. That's not their business model.

OpenKJ is American (California) and owned by a kj who developed the whole system.

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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 5:07 pm 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
Bob Latshaw wrote:
Believe me, I wish Party Tyme and Karaoke-Version weren't the only 2 manufacturers that Americans can legally download from on the fly.

they aren't.

Bob Latshaw wrote:
Being a .ORG site and a non-profit gives them the advantage of never really having to answer to anyone. They will never get the "well I bought your software with the impression that I could get access to all these songs, and now I find out I can't because I live in the US. I want my money back".

what money? it's free

Bob Latshaw wrote:
openkj.org does serve a very good purpose, and if I were a KJ outside America or a KJ who didn't mind the idea of paying a monthly service fee to a cloud service, I'd be glad they existed.

monthly fee? what are you talking about?
Bob Latshaw wrote:
Also, I think it's important to send a message to those sites that won't sell to America. Someone needs to stand up to them and try to influence the laws in those countries to better cater to American clientele.

it's not the sites refusing to sell here, it's American telling them they can't sell here. the US laws are so convoluted that they can't.
Bob Latshaw wrote:
openKJ.org has no dog in the fight. What do they care how things affect American companies like mine? or if American KJs are best served? They don't and they never will. That's not their business model.

OpenKJ is American (California) and owned by a kj who developed the whole system.
.


1. Who are the others? Back up your words. If you're right and they provide a current catalog, we'll add them. We always do.
2. My point exactly. They don't make any money and they don't answer to anyone.
3. Karaoke Cloud charged a monthly fee last time I checked. If I'm wrong, say so.
4. These sites aren't even in America so ours laws don't apply. It's the laws by country. Karaoke-Version can sell to America because French copyright law forces a fair playing field. It has zero to do with our law.
5. Doesn't change my point. They still have no dog in the fight and it doesn't affect them one way or another.


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 9:31 pm 
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3. Karaoke Cloud (ie Digitrax) has one off single buy downloads available. No monthly charge to do so.

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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 3:03 am 
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Lonman wrote:
3. Karaoke Cloud (ie Digitrax) has one off single buy downloads available. No monthly charge to do so.


It doesn't appear that way. Why don't the links take you directly to the song you're looking for? Why can't people listen to a clip of the song before signing up? ...and what are you signing up for? I'll gladly add their catalog to the archive section but they don't appear to make that publicly available either. I went to the Karaoke Cloud conference in 2012, where they tried to sell the rest of the industry on the idea of renting music. I wasn't impressed then, and 8 years later, I'm still not. In fact, you're the only ones questioning why we haven't added them. No one is asking for them to be catalogued. I don't even know why, and frankly not even motivated to find out. Is the process so awful? Is the music that bad? Who cares? If no one is asking for it, the music obviously ain't flying off the shelves. If their music was of any quality, they would LOVE for people to sample it before buying. You mean to tell me that after 8 years, they still are forcing people to sign up for something before hearing the actual product they're buying? That doesn't sound like a company who is proud of what they're selling. It sounds more like a company who is trying to lure you into something.


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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 4:04 am 
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1) SBI, Karaoke Cloud, AllStar.... which Lonnie posted as well
2) they don't take any money so nothing to return. nothing is promised.
3) Karaoke Cloud sells (among other things) the Chartbuster library one at a time. an account is free.
4) you are not even close with this. they must adhere to OUR laws. the copyright laws for the rest of the world are fine everywhere but the US does not accept them and requires other licenses the rest of the world does not require. Karaoke Version and SBI/Abbraxa pay the extra licensing fees to be able to sell in America, Zoom and Sunfly don't.
5) there are an American company catering to KJ's in American and around the world.

if the song is available, it would be nice to know. if i can not buy it right then and there, i know i can look for it elsewhere.
but not on Icroons because it doesn't show. Openkj does show that so i can buy it from SBI, Digitrax or All Star on the spot, or if it's Sunfly or Zoom i can look for the disc when i get home.
it is a free site like Icroons, just more complete and up to date. especially considering most manufacturers are not producing discs like they used to so up to date listings of even those two are necessary to find some songs that are not made by any American companies.

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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 9:01 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
1) SBI, Karaoke Cloud, AllStar.... which Lonnie posted as well
2) they don't take any money so nothing to return. nothing is promised.
3) Karaoke Cloud sells (among other things) the Chartbuster library one at a time. an account is free.
4) you are not even close with this. they must adhere to OUR laws. the copyright laws for the rest of the world are fine everywhere but the US does not accept them and requires other licenses the rest of the world does not require. Karaoke Version and SBI/Abbraxa pay the extra licensing fees to be able to sell in America, Zoom and Sunfly don't.
5) there are an American company catering to KJ's in American and around the world.

if the song is available, it would be nice to know. if i can not buy it right then and there, i know i can look for it elsewhere.
but not on Icroons because it doesn't show. Openkj does show that so i can buy it from SBI, Digitrax or All Star on the spot, or if it's Sunfly or Zoom i can look for the disc when i get home.
it is a free site like Icroons, just more complete and up to date. especially considering most manufacturers are not producing discs like they used to so up to date listings of even those two are necessary to find some songs that are not made by any American companies.


1.) Yes and they all don't take you to a song preview. In other words, the entry in their database doesn't point anywhere but to a site where you have to search for the song all over again. What's the point of using their site if you have to duplicate the search on another site? If they provided a publicly accessible database, we would add it to the archive section, but that's about it. If they want to get added to iCroons download links, they have to be actual links to the specific songs. Sorry, we have standards, and there's currently only 2 companies up to snuff in that department.
2.) see, that's where we are different. We CAN promise you that you can preview songs before purchasing.
3.) Again, why can't we go right to a song?
4.) Sites conform to the rules of the country they reside in. Period. It just depends on how much leeway the laws grant to music publishers. In America, they have carte blanche but in some countries like France, the citizens are protected from the publishers because French law says so. French web sites (like Karaoke-Version) are covered under this because they reside in France, and hence can sell to any country in the world, including the U.S., despite whatever U.S. law says. Laws can ONLY govern the people (and sites) in their own country. I don't know where you got this notion that we have some magical power over foreign countries web sites. It's just not true. What you're seeing is some countries bowing to pressure from music publishers to make it appear that way. They're just systematically changing the laws in other countries so that Publisher rules in the U.S. can be applied elsewhere. They did it in the UK. They just haven't reached France and others yet.
5. Again, you're missing the point. They don't charge anything, so they are a non-profit organization. The quality of their links or the songs they link to don't matter to them. They're going for pure quantity and they are succeeding, but quantity isn't everything. If you think it is, then you're not the kind of person we're catering to. If you're the kind of person who wants to be immediately taken to a landing page of the song you wanted, and be able to hear a sample and decide within seconds whether you want to buy the song, then you're the kind of person who should search iCroons instead. If you have the time to sign up for stuff, possibly find out you can't purchase at all, and research the same search you just typed on a second site, then openkj.org is the place to go if you've got the time. It does serve a purpose and I'm glad KJs have one more resource to use in those times where they need to find a hard to find song.


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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 3:28 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
1.) Yes and they all don't take you to a song preview. In other words, the entry in their database doesn't point anywhere but to a site where you have to search for the song all over again. What's the point of using their site if you have to duplicate the search on another site? If they provided a publicly accessible database, we would add it to the archive section, but that's about it. If they want to get added to iCroons download links, they have to be actual links to the specific songs. Sorry, we have standards, and there's currently only 2 companies up to snuff in that department.
[quote/] All Star takes me directly to a link to the song with a preview
SBI takes me directly to a link with a preview
Karaoke Cloud doesn't, so lets take that off your list because it's too difficult to you.
that leaves the other two that you are wrong about.
Bob Latshaw wrote:
2.) see, that's where we are different. We CAN promise you that you can preview songs before purchasing.
you can't even tell me if the song is available, how can you promise anything?
Bob Latshaw wrote:
3.) Again, why can't we go right to a song?
good question, i don't know. your argument was that nobody knows what they have which is incorrect, they have the old Chartbuster library which most people are familiar with, hence my answer.
Bob Latshaw wrote:
4.) Sites conform to the rules of the country they reside in. Period. It just depends on how much leeway the laws grant to music publishers. In America, they have carte blanche but in some countries like France, the citizens are protected from the publishers because French law says so. French web sites (like Karaoke-Version) are covered under this because they reside in France, and hence can sell to any country in the world, including the U.S., despite whatever U.S. law says. Laws can ONLY govern the people (and sites) in their own country. I don't know where you got this notion that we have some magical power over foreign countries web sites. It's just not true. What you're seeing is some countries bowing to pressure from music publishers to make it appear that way. They're just systematically changing the laws in other countries so that Publisher rules in the U.S. can be applied elsewhere. They did it in the UK. They just haven't reached France and others yet.

sites must conform to the countries they sell in. for example, we can sell Mountain Dew here in the US, but can not be sold in any European country because it does not meet their regulations. For European countries to sell karaoke tracks in the US they must follow US copyright laws which are different and more stringent than the rest of the world.
Bob Latshaw wrote:
5. Again, you're missing the point. They don't charge anything, so they are a non-profit organization. The quality of their links or the songs they link to don't matter to them. They're going for pure quantity and they are succeeding, but quantity isn't everything. If you think it is, then you're not the kind of person we're catering to. If you're the kind of person who wants to be immediately taken to a landing page of the song you wanted, and be able to hear a sample and decide within seconds whether you want to buy the song, then you're the kind of person who should search iCroons instead. If you have the time to sign up for stuff, possibly find out you can't purchase at all, and research the same search you just typed on a second site, then openkj.org is the place to go if you've got the time. It does serve a purpose and I'm glad KJs have one more resource to use in those times where they need to find a hard to find song.

quantity isn't everything, that is true, but they offer every link you do and they just care about hosts.
lets take an example. i got asked tonight for a new Coldplay song - Champion Of The World (i've never heard it, but they want to sing it so...)
with ICroons, i can see karaoke Version and Partytime. if they don't have it, i need to go to SBI and search myself, if they don't have it, i need to go to All Star and search myself, if they don't have it i need to go to Digitrax and search myself, and if they don't have it, then i need to go to Sunfly and search for it myself, and if they don't have it, i need to go to Zoom and search for it myself....hey look....there it is on a disc and even a link to buy it online from a retailer.
that's convoluted, now, when someone cares about hosts and the singers, they do things to make the singers experience better and the hosts job simpler.
----or----
go to db.openkj.org
type in Champion Of The World and bingo, Zoom is the only one with it. click on the link and there is the link to the online retailer. in 10 seconds i can tell the singer "only one company makes it, they are in the UK, but i can have it here for you next week".
back to working the show for me, and the customer picks another song knowing they will sing it next week.

it isn't a matter of quantity, it's a matter of quality, and part of quality is completeness.
Openkj offers a complete list of available songs, that's quality
Icroons offers an incomplete list, that's lacking quality.
Bob Latshaw wrote:
then you're not the kind of person we're catering to.

you are not catering to anybody. everything icroons offers, Openkj offers and then more.

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