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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 1:37 pm 
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zeke wrote:
I have only seen a kiosk at a few shows, and the KJ did have to come up and help out most people that were trying to use it for the first time. Many people are not great at learning a new technology, in a noisy bar, especially when drinking. A lot of karaoke software itself seems particularly dated and hard to use.

If I was a KJ, and I wanted to avoid people post-corona, I would probably put my catalog online on a website, and just tell people to browse to it on their phone, and then text me their name and the song they want to sing. No software to install, and people of all technical levels can handle texting.

The beauty of OpenKJ Songbook kiosk is that it is definitely very easy to use. No extra bells and whistles to confuse the person who is using it just hit the search box and the keyboard pops up, type in what you are searching for, hit the song that you want, click the name box and type in your first name, hit the initial box and type in your initial, select what key you want and hit submit.

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 10:53 pm 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
Yeah, the whole kiosk idea has just become a lot worse of an idea than it already was. This is one of the things that will probably disappear in large numbers from the karaoke world.

I've had times when I wasn't going to set up my kiosk but I had a whole bunch of singers ask if I could set it up for them to use. Disappear? I don't think so. I use Siglos Karaoke Pro and it has a built in wifi kiosk that my singers are able to search for songs and submit their requests using their phones. All of my singers love it! To top it off, the wifi feature is free with the program ... NO ADDITIONAL COST!


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:05 pm 
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zeke wrote:
I have only seen a kiosk at a few shows, and the KJ did have to come up and help out most people that were trying to use it for the first time. Many people are not great at learning a new technology, in a noisy bar, especially when drinking. A lot of karaoke software itself seems particularly dated and hard to use.

I have a neon board that I write the directions to use the wifi song request. I have had maybe one person ask me a question about using the system. Mostly everyone reads the board, access the wifi, search for songs, and submit. They even include key changes with their request. The kiosk system I used to use is the Tricerasoft Super Remote Request Tool. That is until Power Karaoke added the wifi request feature to their Karaoke Pro hosting program. I just love this program!


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:42 pm 
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One issue that I have found is that only Songbooks Online and OpenKJ Songbook kiosk have the ability to supercede the built in control over the tablet going to sleep. The tablet I have only allows 30 minutes max before it goes to sleep. The stand that I am using doesn't allow me to access the power button to wake it up. So I only have one choice for my kiosk which is OpenKJ Songbook.

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 6:03 am 
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bazinga wrote:
Bob Latshaw wrote:
Yeah, the whole kiosk idea has just become a lot worse of an idea than it already was. This is one of the things that will probably disappear in large numbers from the karaoke world.

I've had times when I wasn't going to set up my kiosk but I had a whole bunch of singers ask if I could set it up for them to use. Disappear? I don't think so. I use Siglos Karaoke Pro and it has a built in wifi kiosk that my singers are able to search for songs and submit their requests using their phones. All of my singers love it! To top it off, the wifi feature is free with the program ... NO ADDITIONAL COST!


First of all, let's speak the same language. If they're doing it all from their phones then it's not a "kiosk". A kiosk is a something that is stationary. If you're using anything that's stationary for many people to use, you need to ditch that part.

Of course it's free. It uses Wifi. It requires more work for you and the singers. You need to rely on either every venue to provide you Wifi or to provide your own (which does cost money). According to siglos site, it also requires an extra "server" for you to buy and maintain and carry to each show. Time is money, so there is also that cost compared to other methods. Sadly, your method puts some of the time cost on to the singers. Singers cell phones are already connected to the internet. Why make them take the extra step of connecting to your special network and open them up to hackers (or give them a long encryption passcode to type in)? You work for the singers. Not the other way around. That's also a lot of extra work for singers who worked all week and are currently drinking to forget their troubles. The best KJs want to make their singers job as easy as possible. Sounds like you're not interested in making that happen. In fact, it doesn't even sound like you're interested in making your own job easier. But hey, at least you appear to be spending money on your singers, even if it's not the wisest use of it.

That server wasn't free. Your singers time isn't free. Your extra time to carry the server and set it up isn't free. Your extra time helping people connect to your wifi isn't free. No additional cost? Really? Someone pulled the wool over your eyes.

Also, what about the reputation cost of looking so old school by actually carrying a "server" around to every gig? That doesn't bother you? Do you also carry around some 8-tracks just for sentimental value?

Our cloud based songbooks at SongbooksLive.com are far cheaper and easier for you and the singers, and only costs $29 a year (FAR less than you've ever spent on your system). Most KJs take the songs as people come up to sing, but if any of your singers want to be queued up ahead of time, they can use virtual slips at SingNext.com and those will cost you less than a dollar per show. Again, far easier and cheaper than your system. Even if you had shows 7 nights a week, you still would spend less all year than what that extra server costs you, and you (and your singers) would have done a LOT less work.

You just need to do the math.


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 6:56 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
bazinga wrote:
Bob Latshaw wrote:
Yeah, the whole kiosk idea has just become a lot worse of an idea than it already was. This is one of the things that will probably disappear in large numbers from the karaoke world.

I've had times when I wasn't going to set up my kiosk but I had a whole bunch of singers ask if I could set it up for them to use. Disappear? I don't think so. I use Siglos Karaoke Pro and it has a built in wifi kiosk that my singers are able to search for songs and submit their requests using their phones. All of my singers love it! To top it off, the wifi feature is free with the program ... NO ADDITIONAL COST!


First of all, let's speak the same language. If they're doing it all from their phones then it's not a "kiosk". A kiosk is a something that is stationary. If you're using anything that's stationary for many people to use, you need to ditch that part.

Of course it's free. It uses Wifi. It requires more work for you and the singers. You need to rely on either every venue to provide you Wifi or to provide your own (which does cost money). According to siglos site, it also requires an extra "server" for you to buy and maintain and carry to each show. Time is money, so there is also that cost compared to other methods. Sadly, your method puts some of the time cost on to the singers. Singers cell phones are already connected to the internet. Why make them take the extra step of connecting to your special network and open them up to hackers (or give them a long encryption passcode to type in)? You work for the singers. Not the other way around. That's also a lot of extra work for singers who worked all week and are currently drinking to forget their troubles. The best KJs want to make their singers job as easy as possible. Sounds like you're not interested in making that happen. In fact, it doesn't even sound like you're interested in making your own job easier. But hey, at least you appear to be spending money on your singers, even if it's not the wisest use of it.

That server wasn't free. Your singers time isn't free. Your extra time to carry the server and set it up isn't free. Your extra time helping people connect to your wifi isn't free. No additional cost? Really? Someone pulled the wool over your eyes.

Also, what about the reputation cost of looking so old school by actually carrying a "server" around to every gig? That doesn't bother you? Do you also carry around some 8-tracks just for sentimental value?

Our cloud based songbooks at SongbooksLive.com are far cheaper and easier for you and the singers, and only costs $29 a year (FAR less than you've ever spent on your system). Most KJs take the songs as people come up to sing, but if any of your singers want to be queued up ahead of time, they can use virtual slips at SingNext.com and those will cost you less than a dollar per show. Again, far easier and cheaper than your system. Even if you had shows 7 nights a week, you still would spend less all year than what that extra server costs you, and you (and your singers) would have done a LOT less work.

You just need to do the math.

But your system puts the host in danger. Phone apps and kiosks which by the way could just be the phone app itself logged into the kiosk network, case in point Songbookdb. The phone app runs off of internet with the exception of the kiosk tablet. Even Siglos can be run off of phone internet for the singers through http://www.connectkaraoke.com. So Bob. You are no longer in the loop so to speak. Add to the point that Siglos doesn't need the internet to operate. If the host has a router that can handle as much user's as can fill the bar plus the kiosk tablet or computer and the host's player computer then the only extra cost is a one time cost of the host computer, router and tablet or kiosk computer.

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 8:23 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
But your system puts the host in danger. Phone apps and kiosks which by the way could just be the phone app itself logged into the kiosk network, case in point Songbookdb. The phone app runs off of internet with the exception of the kiosk tablet. Even Siglos can be run off of phone internet for the singers through http://www.connectkaraoke.com. So Bob. You are no longer in the loop so to speak. Add to the point that Siglos doesn't need the internet to operate. If the host has a router that can handle as much user's as can fill the bar plus the kiosk tablet or computer and the host's player computer then the only extra cost is a one time cost of the host computer, router and tablet or kiosk computer.


The host has a router? They need to install an app? Oh yeah that sounds like a much easier system for the common man. Our system doesn't put anyone in danger. Stop pulling things out of your glory hole just because you're embarrassed of your third world tech that requires so much more stuff for you to carry and setup. With our system, the singers never have to leave their seat except to sing. The only danger to singers are KJs like yourself that try to bulls#it them.


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 8:37 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
But your system puts the host in danger. Phone apps and kiosks which by the way could just be the phone app itself logged into the kiosk network, case in point Songbookdb. The phone app runs off of internet with the exception of the kiosk tablet. Even Siglos can be run off of phone internet for the singers through http://www.connectkaraoke.com. So Bob. You are no longer in the loop so to speak. Add to the point that Siglos doesn't need the internet to operate. If the host has a router that can handle as much user's as can fill the bar plus the kiosk tablet or computer and the host's player computer then the only extra cost is a one time cost of the host computer, router and tablet or kiosk computer.


The host has a router? They need to install an app? Oh yeah that sounds like a much easier system for the common man. Our system doesn't put anyone in danger. Stop pulling things out of your glory hole just because you're embarrassed of your third world tech that requires so much more stuff for you to carry and setup. With our system, the singers never have to leave their seat except to sing. The only danger to singers are KJs like yourself that try to bulls#it them.

What system a 2 app system, one to see if the host has a song and the other to send the request. Total waste of singer's time. OpenKJ Songbook kiosk and app and the others that have been named in this thread allows the singer to search for a song and submit from the same app. More efficient and easier for the singer. You don't know crap cause you are the only one spouting bs. I only offer the kiosk for those who are not up to date with their phones. They have a right to sing like everyone else and I won't take the right away from them by not offering the kiosk. If my request system was only available to those who have smartphones then anyone who doesn't have one would not be allowed to sing. I refuse to do anything that will place me in jeopardy of bringing home the virus to my roommate. If I get it she will get it because I have absolutely no way of isolating myself from her because I am her only transportation to her cancer treatments.

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Last edited by DannyG2006 on Sat May 16, 2020 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 8:46 am 
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Quote:
The only danger to singers are KJs like yourself that try to bulls#it them.

Quote:
You don't know crap cause you are the only one spouting bs.

Wow.. I didn't know electronic songbooks were such a topic of controversy.

I wonder if in the post-coronavirus world, the KJs that thrive will be the ones who already know (via more widespread testing) that they have had coronavirus and can just keep running their show like they did before.


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 10:18 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
What system a 2 app system, one to see if the host has a song and the other to send the request. Total waste of singer's time. OpenKJ Songbook kiosk and app and the others that have been named in this thread allows the singer to search for a song and submit from the same app. More efficient and easier for the singer. You don't know crap cause you are the only one spouting bs. I only offer the kiosk for those who are not up to date with their phones. They have a right to sing like everyone else and I won't take the right away from them by not offering the kiosk. If my request system was only available to those who have smartphones then anyone who doesn't have one would not be allowed to sing. I refuse to do anything that will place me in jeopardy of bringing home the virus to my roommate. If I get it she will get it because I have absolutely no way of isolating myself from her because I am her only transportation to her cancer treatments.


There you go again. Not true. In auto mode, SingNext.com lets you browse the KJs collection and submit songs right from the same place (and it didn't require an app). In fact, you can do it with zero typing with our indexed based system. Songbooks Live is for browsing only because (as I said before and have the data to back this up), most KJs simply let the singers tell them what they want to sing when they get up.

I've also seen Power Karaoke's user interfaces. They look like they were made in some old eastern block European country like Poland. Oh wait, that's right, they were. Their search engine is also very flawed. It only searches to see if the results "start with" what you typed. We literally blow them out of the water in each and every category. As an American, you should be proud of that fact. Why aren't you? ….and why do you keep lying to defend them? Inquiring minds want to know.


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 12:46 pm 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
First of all, let's speak the same language. If they're doing it all from their phones then it's not a "kiosk". A kiosk is a something that is stationary. If you're using anything that's stationary for many people to use, you need to ditch that part.

Like I said I used to use the Tricerasoft Super Remote Request Tool, which was a kiosk. I used to set it up and my singers would go to the kiosk to send in their requests. Now I use Siglos Karaoke Pro with its integrated wifi request. It "IS FREE" because I had a router that I wasn't using and I bring it with me and just plug it in and it's up and running. The server is built into the hosting program so there are no additional costs. Bob, I know you don't like remote request features such as using a kiosk or in the case of Karaoke Pro, a wifi request system. That's one reason why I would never buy your hosting program. But, that's my choice and I respect those that do buy yours because it's not my money, they are spending their own.

Bob Latshaw wrote:
Why make them take the extra step of connecting to your special network and open them up to hackers (or give them a long encryption passcode to type in)? You work for the singers. Not the other way around. That's also a lot of extra work for singers who worked all week and are currently drinking to forget their troubles. The best KJs want to make their singers job as easy as possible. Sounds like you're not interested in making that happen.

My long encryption passcode for my singers to log in is 1 2 3 4 5. Wow that is long and complicated. When I used to use the Tricerasoft Super Remote Request Tool it required a longer setup, however "EVERY" time I chose not to set it up I would have a bunch of singers come up and ask what happened to the kiosk and can I set it up. Naturally I would set it up because my singers wanted it. With Siglos my singers are even happier because they can now search for songs and submit their requests from their seats. They don't have to look at books in a darken room and bring their request slip up to me. Those days are long gone. I believe using their phones is a more convenient way for them to submit a request.

Bob Latshaw wrote:
Our cloud based songbooks at SongbooksLive.com are far cheaper and easier for you and the singers, and only costs $29 a year (FAR less than you've ever spent on your system). Most KJs take the songs as people come up to sing, but if any of your singers want to be queued up ahead of time, they can use virtual slips at SingNext.com and those will cost you less than a dollar per show. Again, far easier and cheaper than your system. Even if you had shows 7 nights a week, you still would spend less all year than what that extra server costs you, and you (and your singers) would have done a LOT less work.

You just need to do the math.

If I do the math, I believe FREE is cheaper than even one dollar per show. Everything is built into Karaoke Pro. Server .... Request .... All Built In! Unlike your program which is being left in the dust by other companies because you fail to keep up with the times or you require more money. But like I said, I do not care because I'll NEVER buy your hosting program. But if you're selling hundreds of copies of your beloved Karma I say good for you. Everyone has a choice as to what they are looking for in a hosting program. I choose not to buy yours because it is lacking compared to what I am using and I'm very happy with its features. Have a safe and COVID-19 free weekend.


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 6:52 am 
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bazinga wrote:
If I do the math, I believe FREE is cheaper than even one dollar per show. Everything is built into Karaoke Pro. Server .... Request .... All Built In! Unlike your program which is being left in the dust by other companies because you fail to keep up with the times or you require more money. But like I said, I do not care because I'll NEVER buy your hosting program. But if you're selling hundreds of copies of your beloved Karma I say good for you. Everyone has a choice as to what they are looking for in a hosting program. I choose not to buy yours because it is lacking compared to what I am using and I'm very happy with its features. Have a safe and COVID-19 free weekend.


If it requires a wifi router and instructions for singers to connect to a different network before they can even use it, then no, it's not "built-in".

Keep up with the times? Ask your singers how many other phone apps or web sites require them to connect to a different Wifi? So you think this is the new modern way of doing things? You think other apps should follow suite with this way of thinking? There's a better chance that disco will come back in style. NO OTHER APPS DO THIS! You're deluding yourself. You're singers are simply loyal to you and would probably do anything you ask. Doesn't mean they like it. Also a great reason why you should use stuff that was designed by a singer, but you can't relate to the singer point of view, can you?

..and we sell far more Karma licenses than you think, and it's all over the globe. Also, we stopped measuring in "hundreds" over a decade ago. Licenses sales are a 5 digit number, not 3. Those good testimonials on our home page are all real. There's more people with good things to say about our products than all of our competitors combined. Sure your app costs less, but a Honda civic also costs less than a Honda Prelude. You just haven't figured out why.


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 8:30 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
bazinga wrote:
If I do the math, I believe FREE is cheaper than even one dollar per show. Everything is built into Karaoke Pro. Server .... Request .... All Built In! Unlike your program which is being left in the dust by other companies because you fail to keep up with the times or you require more money. But like I said, I do not care because I'll NEVER buy your hosting program. But if you're selling hundreds of copies of your beloved Karma I say good for you. Everyone has a choice as to what they are looking for in a hosting program. I choose not to buy yours because it is lacking compared to what I am using and I'm very happy with its features. Have a safe and COVID-19 free weekend.


If it requires a wifi router and instructions for singers to connect to a different network before they can even use it, then no, it's not "built-in".

Keep up with the times? Ask your singers how many other phone apps or web sites require them to connect to a different Wifi? So you think this is the new modern way of doing things? You think other apps should follow suite with this way of thinking? There's a better chance that disco will come back in style. NO OTHER APPS DO THIS! You're deluding yourself. You're singers are simply loyal to you and would probably do anything you ask. Doesn't mean they like it. Also a great reason why you should use stuff that was designed by a singer, but you can't relate to the singer point of view, can you?

..and we sell far more Karma licenses than you think, and it's all over the globe. Also, we stopped measuring in "hundreds" over a decade ago. Licenses sales are a 5 digit number, not 3. Those good testimonials on our home page are all real. There's more people with good things to say about our products than all of our competitors combined. Sure your app costs less, but a Honda civic also costs less than a Honda Prelude. You just haven't figured out why.

My system doesn't require the singer's phones to be connected to wifi. Just my player computer and my kiosk tablet. The singers are using their own personal data plan.
In fact OpenKJ Songbook, Songbooks Online, Songbookdb and even Siglos (using connectkaraoke.com) are accessed through the internet which any 4g or 5g phone can access all without hooking up to any wifi router. Compuhost's original kiosk cannot do this without being on the exact same network that the host computer is on. But the rest are not 100% reliant on the same network. You need to do a little more research on your competitors before making sweeping statements that shows how ignorant you really are.

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Last edited by DannyG2006 on Sun May 17, 2020 8:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Bob Latshaw wrote:
bazinga wrote:
If I do the math, I believe FREE is cheaper than even one dollar per show. Everything is built into Karaoke Pro. Server .... Request .... All Built In! Unlike your program which is being left in the dust by other companies because you fail to keep up with the times or you require more money. But like I said, I do not care because I'll NEVER buy your hosting program. But if you're selling hundreds of copies of your beloved Karma I say good for you. Everyone has a choice as to what they are looking for in a hosting program. I choose not to buy yours because it is lacking compared to what I am using and I'm very happy with its features. Have a safe and COVID-19 free weekend.


If it requires a wifi router and instructions for singers to connect to a different network before they can even use it, then no, it's not "built-in".

Keep up with the times? Ask your singers how many other phone apps or web sites require them to connect to a different Wifi? So you think this is the new modern way of doing things? You think other apps should follow suite with this way of thinking? There's a better chance that disco will come back in style. NO OTHER APPS DO THIS! You're deluding yourself. You're singers are simply loyal to you and would probably do anything you ask. Doesn't mean they like it. Also a great reason why you should use stuff that was designed by a singer, but you can't relate to the singer point of view, can you?

..and we sell far more Karma licenses than you think, and it's all over the globe. Also, we stopped measuring in "hundreds" over a decade ago. Licenses sales are a 5 digit number, not 3. Those good testimonials on our home page are all real. There's more people with good things to say about our products than all of our competitors combined. Sure your app costs less, but a Honda civic also costs less than a Honda Prelude. You just haven't figured out why.

My system doesn't require the singer's phones to be connected to wifi. Just my player computer and my kiosk tablet. The singers are using their own personal data plan.

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 3:33 pm 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
My system doesn't require the singer's phones to be connected to wifi. Just my player computer and my kiosk tablet. The singers are using their own personal data plan.
In fact OpenKJ Songbook, Songbooks Online, Songbookdb and even Siglos (using connectkaraoke.com) are accessed through the internet which any 4g or 5g phone can access all without hooking up to any wifi router. Compuhost's original kiosk cannot do this without being on the exact same network that the host computer is on. But the rest are not 100% reliant on the same network. You need to do a little more research on your competitors before making sweeping statements that shows how ignorant you really are.


I have, and it led me to learn you're lying about costs. Siglos states right on their web site that the service only comes with an active support subscription. You only get one year included. Each additional year is $29. Exactly the same cost as Songbooks Live. We're just a little more upfront and honest about costs. We also don't charge for support.

Attachment:
Compare.png
Compare.png [ 405.91 KiB | Viewed 494 times ]


Now that your cost argument has been proven a lie, let's move on to what a joke your app is. Please refer to the image above. I took the screen shot right from siglos web site. If it's improved since, let me know.

1. The obvious white background was not thought out by someone who's actually been to a karaoke show. Darker backgrounds are easier to read in dark environments like bars.
2. Siglos only allows searches by the "starts with" text. What if you only know some of the words in the middle? or can't spell the first word?
3. Songbooks Live has an index bar on the right side. Very convenient. Especially when viewing the entire book. Can Siglos view the entire book at once? ...and quickly flip to any letter without typing in the search box? Doesn't look like it.
4. Lot of wasted screen space in the Siglos app since they repeat the artist name each line. The oversized font is also causing a lot of line wrapping, which also is a waste of screen space and makes it difficult to read.

I could go on. I could also put Karma's screen next to Siglos and have a field day, but at some point, I'm just rubbing it in. Stop lying about costs Danny. Stop lying about a lot of things. I'll call you out each and every time. There's a reason your favorite Polish software developer doesn't show up here and defend himself. He's sneaky in his sales tactics. His UI designs are crap, and he clearly isn't a karaoke singer. Also, the only people even attempting to defend his work are people like you who have to lie to make an argument. Having an opinion is one thing. Lying is another.


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 4:38 pm 
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I like the one on the left. Aside from looking a little nicer to me (the font and styling of the Songbooks Live app looks very dated to my eye) I really want to know what versions of a song a KJ has. For me, that is a must-have if a KJ puts their catalog online. Most people won't care, but some karaoke regulars do. No comment on the other aspects of them (price, number of apps, etc.)

In my experience very few KJs even put their catalog online so either would be an improvement at most of the shows I've gone to.


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 5:39 pm 
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Bob just your claim that yours is the only one out there that doesn't force users to hook up to the same web site tells me that you don't know (@$%&#!). I don't use Siglos and cost don't mean (@$%&#!) to me. I am a beta tester for the one that I use so it actually costs nothing and doesn't require a specific player to use. If I wanted to go directly into the player it would either be Karaoki or Video Hoster. But I have a choice of softwares that I can use. I am one of those who likes to play around with software to find a better mousetrap. So far the closest thing to what I want is actually VirtualDJ even though it means that I have to manually manage the rotation. I can deal with that.

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 7:31 pm 
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.....................


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 4:10 am 
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Alan B wrote:
.....................

Sorry, but I can't use it for a couple of reasons. 1) it's false advertising because a)anything is better than what Bob can offer and B) I always put my customers first and 2) I have chosen to use the other logo with the slogan as my logo because I like it better.

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 7:25 am 
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:!: For those hosts who were hoping for a quick economic recovery, like the administration has been touting, it doesn't look like it is in the cards. According to the FED chief on 60 minutes last night, we are not going to have a V recovery. When Fall comes we might have a W, which means a second round of lock downs. Due to the nature of the virus it will effect the public more once they have to stay indoors during the Fall and Winter months, also if will be flu season as well. One thing that the FED is trying to avoid is a square root type of recovery. That would resemble The Great Depression and The Great Recession of 2008, both lasted over 10 years. It took that long for the market to recover to where it was prior to the downturn. The last scenario would mean tough times for more than a decade.


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