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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:08 am 
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Tomorrow will start the next phase of stimulus funding, the sides are starting to line up. Seems Moscow Mitch wants to include legal language that would prevent citizens from suing for exposure to covid-19, due to reopening the economy. If this isn't done then he will stall any new relief package. What Mitch doesn't understand is that failure to pass a package could tank the stock market, forcing a new wave of lay offs, and an economic down turn just before the next election. He would be cutting off his nose to spite his face, since Republicans are already facing an up hill battle in the elections. If they get tagged with further damaging the economy, they will insure a Democratic rout during the voting process. The Republicans are already digging themselves into a hole that as a party they might not be able to climb out of. I feel once the election is over, we will have a new party in charge, and hopefully some badly needed reforms can be achieved. Among those reforms will be UBI.


Last edited by The Lone Ranger on Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:34 am 
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The wording as I read it meets my approved as it limits the protection to doing what the places can reasonably do rather than just be blanket protection from all lawsuits. If they have been negligent such as Winn Dixie not requiring masks, they still can be sued and lose.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:43 am 
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Today is July the 20th, the start of the new stimulus package horse trading dance, in which both sides will try and get as much as they can, without giving up anything. If Congress does balk and the extra 600.00 a week unemployment money isn't extended, then the economy as far a consumer spending could go down at much as 30% in August. Coupled with mortgage and renters forgiveness expiring this could mean a big chunk of people thrust on to the streets homeless. Making the tense social unrest even more dangerous. Of course such a situation will effect the stock market. Usually what the market does is discount this event before it happens, if it is felt Congress will not extend, this could send stocks into free fall. Of course more stimulus will also stimulate the market, it is going to be a long week to 11 days.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:26 am 
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Congress is back in secession, and the hot topic is the stimulus unemployment benefits due to expire this Saturday July 25th. That extra 600.00 a week over the regular unemployment check that has prevented many from becoming homeless during this pandemic. Also the rent and mortgages holidays are due to expire soon. The Democrats have already finished their version of the new 3 Trillion dollar package, the Republicans in the Senate want a more watered down version. As unemployment claims continued to be filed and between 13 to 17 million remain jobless, the need for such relief is real. We cannot afford to have millions of people thrown out on the streets in the mist of a pandemic. Especially with the social unrest that has gone on recently.


This is the time to take a long look at finally doing something long term to combat working class poverty in this country. Where a person can work two or three low paying jobs, and still can't pay their rent, or buy food for their children. It is time to have some income security in the form of UBI.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:54 am 
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So now the horse trading starts, the Democrats with a 3 trillion dollar package, and the Republicans pushing a 1 trillion dollar package. What fails to be mentioned in all of this, is the FED has already advanced 4 trillion dollars to Wall Street, to keep the markets from collapsing. There was no political theater involved, the FED just printed to money and pumped it into the corporate bond market. This is the whole problem with the current system, big business can get what it needs no red tape, the voters who are on the hook for all of this are forced to wait, with the possibility of being thrown out on the streets, with their children in the mist of a pandemic. Moscow Mitch took his sweet time to do something, the House passed their bill three months ago. The Republicans are split, some don't want to spend anymore money, others want only to pay the one trillion, they are playing with dynamite, which could blow up the entire economy, and throw us into a real depression.

Congress has been forced by the pandemic to experiment with direct payments, the same type of payments that would happen if we were to adopt UBI. What the extra 600.00 dollars a week has shown is those that get it spend it, and support our consumer driven economy. What is shown now by even conservative economists is that if the money stops, it will shrink the GDP by two full percentage points. This is in just the short time the program has been in effect. Should it turn out that millions will be unemployed or under employed for years, UBI might be the only solution long term to keep the economy from collapsing into another Great Depression. Why is it in this country that corporate big business Socialism is ok, and not good for the citizens who are the one's paying most of the taxes?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:04 am 
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It's official despite the touting of recent job gains, the fact remains that over 30 million are out of work and receiving the extra 600.00 a week in unemployment payments. One woman was told she would go back to work in June it is now August, and still her place of employment is boarded up. The mortgage on her home is 1700.00 a month, her benefits without the stimulus money is around 300.00 a week, she will lose her home. Because of future job loses due to AI, the uncertainty caused by forces in the economy such as a pandemic, and other economic emergencies that can arise, it is of the utmost importance to really consider UBI. It will cost money to start up, once it is going the VAT tax will make it self funding. It is the only way to prevent shocks from happening to the markets, and the society that depends on the economy to supply all of it's needs. It will also have other positive effects to the environment, it will make things more stable, although many selfish interest groups make money off of chaos. Speaking of chaos it seems that Congress will not come together anytime soon to agree on a new stimulus package. If nothing is done the current program expires this Friday, the last checks went out already, so we are on the edge of the financial cliff right now!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:59 am 
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For those of you that feel UBI will never happen in this country, don't look now but it has already happened on a limited scale. This extra $600.00 a week that expired yesterday was UBI on a limited basis. There is a program in Canada that does the same thing, and they are moving closer to making it a full time program. Already it is apparent that once a program is started it is hard to put the genie back in the bottle. The continued strength of the Covid-19 pandemic means in the reality of 2020, UBI is needed to avoid civil unrest and the destruction of our consumer based economy in the U.S. We might as well bite the bullet adopt UBI an originally conservative idea, and make plans to make it permanent by using a VAT to make it self funding. The old days of unfettered capitalism and winner take all, is coming to an end. Maybe it is time for us all to grow up and realize, we are all in the same boat. That a rising tide lifts all ships, and protects the rights of all of us.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:48 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
:?: Despite all of the trillions of dollars spent on trying to save small business's and to bail out the economy in general, unemployment rate has hit Great Depression levels. Many of the venues that karaoke hosts used to play at have closed, and have not reopened. If they do reopen it is most likely that they will have little in their reduced budgets for entertainment. The main job of the host is to gather a crowd, gathering crowds at this time is not a good idea. If there had been no pandemic, due to automation, it is still estimated that 800 million jobs currently done would have been lost globally over the next 5 to 10 years. For our economy that is devastating since we are consumer driven. When the consumers have no income then they are unable to buy, it is as simple as that.

This all effects karaoke hosts directly since we are all part of the consumer based economy of this country. People are not buying or going out because they have lost their jobs, are saving their money, or the majority don't want to expose themselves to the possibility of contracting the virus, in a public setting. Direct payments to citizens makes sense since it puts money in their pockets now, that they can spend to try and keep the economy running, even if it is at a reduced rate. Right now most hosts are sitting home like everyone else, it is very likely they will be the last to come back to work in most cases. To prevent spreading the virus it will be necessary for hosts to in addition to their other duties keep the karaoke work area extremely clean, this will involve considerable expense. Many hosts were already struggling with thin profit margins, not to mention many cleaning supplies are currently in short supply.

Let's face it many hosts don't qualify for any type of unemployment or small business loans, since they have been working under the table and not paying taxes. Those pirates that the professional karaoke hosts bemoan all of the time. If nothing UBI would eliminate many of these fly by night operators, since they will take the easy way out, and accept the government income. Since the rest of the karaoke hosting is a small mom and pop operation, except for the large multi riggers, who probably could apply for small business loans, both would also be helped by UBI. It would give them the means to pay their basic bills, while still being able to wait out the economic roller coaster that will be with us for sometime.

We as an industry have to face the reality that in many cases the venues who once had entertainment, will either go out of business, or if they continue they will get rid of entertainment, at least for the duration of the virus pandemic. As a society we need to build a floor to keep citizens from falling into poverty and homelessness, hosts are citizens to.


Going to have to disagree with part of your statement- "The main job of the host is to gather a crowd," The main job of the karaoke host is to provide a high level of entertainment, keep the crowd coming back, maybe get their friends to recommend the karaoke venue, and maybe bring in a following. The main job of gathering a crowd to begin with is up to the business through advertisement, especially street advertisement. Having a Ladies night or 2 drinks for one, food specials can also help. I've played at venues like the VFW which sat off the main road with no advertisement and no advertisement. Who's coming, hopefully the people that follow you, but most times that's not enough to bring in enough to pay the karaoke host. So whenever I play a karaoke venue now I inform the venue to start advertising, street, paper, online, FB etc.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:25 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
For those of you that feel UBI will never happen in this country, don't look now but it has already happened on a limited scale. This extra $600.00 a week that expired yesterday was UBI on a limited basis. There is a program in Canada that does the same thing, and they are moving closer to making it a full time program. Already it is apparent that once a program is started it is hard to put the genie back in the bottle. The continued strength of the Covid-19 pandemic means in the reality of 2020, UBI is needed to avoid civil unrest and the destruction of our consumer based economy in the U.S. We might as well bite the bullet adopt UBI an originally conservative idea, and make plans to make it permanent by using a VAT to make it self funding. The old days of unfettered capitalism and winner take all, is coming to an end. Maybe it is time for us all to grow up and realize, we are all in the same boat. That a rising tide lifts all ships, and protects the rights of all of us.


First off why do Canadians still come to the US for medical treatment if their socialist style medical system is so good? The US is not a Capitalist economy, it is a mixed economy of both capitalism and socialism, pure socialist and communist countries have planned economies. Socialism has never worked anywhere in the world and never will. The US Constitution is NOT compatible with either socialism or communism, so the Bill of Rights would need to be changed in order to install a socialist doctrine. I've been to Eastern Europe after the fall of communism. It's a sight i'll never forget with people living in miles and miles of what the Slovaks call Panelaky, which means prefabs. I've seen what happened in a socialist society, people living like sardines packed in miles of buildings because socialism deprived them of enough money to buy housing, they were paid by the State and everyone got paid and had to work to collect a check. One thing all these socialist countries had in common is the people were all patriots to their countries. You should be asking why giant tech corporations don't treat their workers better. You've got Amazon/Washington Post, Jeff Bezos making literally billions everyday, paying his people minimum wage, while some corps like Nike and Apple use slave labor in China to manufacture their products. BTW the Bill of Rights protects all of us. If the US is such a racist unfair country why do a million people want to emigrate here every year? I swore an oath of allegiance to this country and will continue to fight against Marxism, Socialism, and Communism because I know what that would mean to the US and it's citizens.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:42 am 
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Capt Frank wrote:

First off why do Canadians still come to the US for medical treatment if their socialist style medical system is so good? The US is not a Capitalist economy, it is a mixed economy of both capitalism and socialism, pure socialist and communist countries have planned economies. Socialism has never worked anywhere in the world and never will. The US Constitution is NOT compatible with either socialism or communism, so the Bill of Rights would need to be changed in order to install a socialist doctrine. I've been to Eastern Europe after the fall of communism. It's a sight i'll never forget with people living in miles and miles of what the Slovaks call Panelaky, which means prefabs. I've seen what happened in a socialist society, people living like sardines packed in miles of buildings because socialism deprived them of enough money to buy housing, they were paid by the State and everyone got paid and had to work to collect a check. One thing all these socialist countries had in common is the people were all patriots to their countries. You should be asking why giant tech corporations don't treat their workers better. You've got Amazon/Washington Post, Jeff Bezos making literally billions everyday, paying his people minimum wage, while some corps like Nike and Apple use slave labor in China to manufacture their products. BTW the Bill of Rights protects all of us. If the US is such a racist unfair country why do a million people want to emigrate here every year? I swore an oath of allegiance to this country and will continue to fight against Marxism, Socialism, and Communism because I know what that would mean to the US and it's citizens.


One way to stop them from coming here Frank is to have the public option like the Canadians do. Just because we have the public option does not mean if you want to pay out of your own pocket for special treatment you will always have that option as well. While it is true we have a mixed economy, the mix is more in favor of a select few rather than the mass of citizens. Why wouldn't the Constitution be compatible with some socialism, after all like you have pointed out Captain, we live in a mixed economy? You better hope that some socialism is legal and works, after all what are Social Security, Medicare, and the V.A. hospital but socialist programs? What we are fighting over right now is the stimulus package is it too big, too small, or should we have another one at all? Pure anything is bad that goes for capitalism as well, one way to avoid the boom and bust cycles associated with unfettered capitalism, is building a financial floor citizens cannot fall below. Instead of trickle down which hasn't worked in nearly 50 years to trying, it is time to try something new. Building the economy from the bottom up, just like you would build a house. You don't put the roof on first, but that is what we have been doing with capitalism all of this time. You have to have a strong foundation, UBI is the way you do that. Like it or not that is what Congress is doing right now, with 30 million people out of work, they are trying to get money into consumer's pockets. The only problem is time is running out, many will be fore closed on, or evicted before they get the relief they need. Millions will be homeless and hungry, resulting in more civil unrest.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:15 am 
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Capt Frank wrote:
First off why do Canadians still come to the US for medical treatment if their socialist style medical system is so good?

why do 320,000 Americans go to Canada, Mexico, and other countries for health care every year?

I can get my knee replaced for $30,000 here
or i can fly to India, see a doctor trained in America, and get it for $12,000 and have a nice vacation spending less than what the surgery alone would cost in America.
a colonoscopy in the US is about $3,200, Canada...$463
Having a baby in America, $32,000 for a simple one, Canada...$2,000

why do they come here?
because they make you wait for a tummy tuck, a face lift, breast implants, and some people just believe that if it costs more, it's better.

don't believe me? just ask anyone who lives in other countries, they are appalled at our prices.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:27 am 
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Moscow Mitch is starting to cave to the Democrats. He knows that unless something is done as far as stimulus in the next few days, we are going to have the economy start unraveling, it is simple as that. The extra money everyone was getting, was keeping millions in their homes and able to buy food. The extra $600.00 a week even though it has only been in effect a few months, has shown that some form of UBI is needed long term. Mainly because millions of workers and business's have been either laid off for good, or shuttered for good. This is the time even the Republicans are going to have to throw bread to the mob, or face a day of reckoning like has not been seen in this country before.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:41 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
Capt Frank wrote:
First off why do Canadians still come to the US for medical treatment if their socialist style medical system is so good?

why do 320,000 Americans go to Canada, Mexico, and other countries for health care every year?

I can get my knee replaced for $30,000 here
or i can fly to India, see a doctor trained in America, and get it for $12,000 and have a nice vacation spending less than what the surgery alone would cost in America.
a colonoscopy in the US is about $3,200, Canada...$463
Having a baby in America, $32,000 for a simple one, Canada...$2,000

why do they come here?
because they make you wait for a tummy tuck, a face lift, breast implants, and some people just believe that if it costs more, it's better.

don't believe me? just ask anyone who lives in other countries, they are appalled at our prices.


I know many Canadians who come here for medical treatment, as I've met many here in Florida coming here to snowbird from the cold winters. They have to wait months to get MRI's in Canada in some areas, many go to the Mayo Institute here in Jacksonville Florida for treatment, my wife goes there and I've met many and spoken to them. Comparing Canada and the US is comparing apples to oranges, the illegal alien population which is uninsured equals the whole population of Canada, illegal aliens are covered thru Medicaid. Obviously you are not on Medicare, I've seen my Medicare benefits go down hill since Obamacare, and the costs will continue to go up, and benefits down if 20-40 million illegal aliens are placed on Medicare as democrats demand. This would be a disaster for seniors. Sure medical costs and prescriptions are higher then anywhere. No one wants to do anything about it, as the medical lobby is as strong as any lobby on earth. Not one congressional politician is doing anything about it, nor do they care, remember they all take donations.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:12 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Moscow Mitch is starting to cave to the Democrats. He knows that unless something is done as far as stimulus in the next few days, we are going to have the economy start unraveling, it is simple as that. The extra money everyone was getting, was keeping millions in their homes and able to buy food. The extra $600.00 a week even though it has only been in effect a few months, has shown that some form of UBI is needed long term. Mainly because millions of workers and business's have been either laid off for good, or shuttered for good. This is the time even the Republicans are going to have to throw bread to the mob, or face a day of reckoning like has not been seen in this country before.


Closing this country was a joke and did NOTHING to stop the virus, just ask Sweden and Brazil. Democrats demand that their states remain closed, schools closed, and their economies go down hill, why? Everyone knows why, they want China Joe to be elected, or whoever his VP is. China will celebrate with a holiday. BTW the Chinese communists have more billionaires then any country on earth, and the peasants make nearly nothing in sweat shops. Thatcher said the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of everyone else's money, however, you're gonna have a bigger problem in your generation or generations to come. Socialism debt will eventually weaken the US economically and they will not be able to make interest payments, it will lose it's economic place in the world as the dollar becomes weaker, US will borrow at higher interest rates, inflation will become rampant, recessions, possible depressions. So eventually UBI will destroy this country economically, closure was a complete disaster, and your generation may have to pay the fiddler.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:45 am 
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Capt Frank wrote:

Closing this country was a joke and did NOTHING to stop the virus, just ask Sweden and Brazil. Democrats demand that their states remain closed, schools closed, and their economies go down hill, why? Everyone knows why, they want China Joe to be elected, or whoever his VP is. China will celebrate with a holiday. BTW the Chinese communists have more billionaires then any country on earth, and the peasants make nearly nothing in sweat shops. Thatcher said the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of everyone else's money, however, you're gonna have a bigger problem in your generation or generations to come. Socialism debt will eventually weaken the US economically and they will not be able to make interest payments, it will lose it's economic place in the world as the dollar becomes weaker, US will borrow at higher interest rates, inflation will become rampant, recessions, possible depressions. So eventually UBI will destroy this country economically, closure was a complete disaster, and your generation may have to pay the fiddler.



Captain my Captain, what was a joke was not getting out in front of the virus from the beginning, making it the only option to close down, and it might be the option again, because we have not learned from our mistakes. Sweden did not lock down at all, they were the poster child of what happens when you do nothing. They have the highest mortality rate per capita of any European country. Seems to me that China Joe isn't the only one trying to kiss up to China. Didn't Trump try and bend over, to get a trade deal with those Chinese Billionaire's? Trump cares nothing about Chinese sweat shops, his daughter makes her line of clothing there in those same shops, exploiting the same poor relocated peasants. Yes you eventually run out of other people's money, but that doesn't seem to bother Wall Street, the FED just provided them with 4 trillion dollars worth of government printed money in the form of liquidity to buy corporate bonds, and keep the markets afloat. UBI once set up would be self funding since the one's receiving it would be paying a VAT consumption tax. After all they do the bulk of the consuming, not the rich, they already have.

One question Capt with all of the money that has been put into the economy this year, why are interest rates lower than ever? I just got a 2.7% fixed. What is really going to destroy this country, is the growing gap between rich and poor. It is said right now if you have money while everything is rock bottom in real estate to go on a buying spree. Especially when the fore closures start happening soon.

P.S. Capt UBI might be the only thing that saves this country, at least from the endless cycles of boom and bust Capitalism. Then citizens would not be held hostage, while the House, Senate, and Administration argue with each other, fiddling while Rome burns.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:14 am 
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Well the Congress and the Administration is deadlocked as far as the latest round of stimulus money is held up. Why is it that most of us can't get what we need when we need it, and yet Wall Street can get all of the money they need, and not bother to go through the legislative process at all? We the taxpayers have to beg, the Fed caters to the billionaires and we have to make good any loses. For those of you opposed to Socialism, why is it good for big business, and not for the little guy? The little guy has far fewer resources, and the rich just keep concentrating more wealth in a few individuals and well connected families.

With the halt in added payments, many are being forced once again to go to food banks, to feed their families. People who have never had to ask for a handout are now being forced to. These same people who supported cutting food stamps, now need SNAP benefits. This is just the tip of the iceberg, the longer it takes to get a deal, the more people will suffer, and turn that suffering into votes at the ballot box come November. Like it or not the party in power will face the fury of the voters, it will indeed be time to turn the rascals out, let's hope "We don't get fooled again".


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:27 am 
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I hear the big hang up is the unemployment issue. I say meet the Republicans halfway at 400 a week and be done with it. I never got the amount that I was making working when I was on unemployment why should they?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:03 pm 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
I hear the big hang up is the unemployment issue. I say meet the Republicans halfway at 400 a week and be done with it. I never got the amount that I was making working when I was on unemployment why should they?



The whole point is if everyone had UBI, paid for by a VAT consumption tax, there would be no need for unemployment or many of the piecemeal social programs, all with their own means testing processes, Danny. UBI was originally a Conservative idea, paying citizens directly, cutting out the middle man in many cases, eliminating many programs, and reducing expenses. It is said it would save at least 200 billion dollars on administrative costs alone. It would actually shrink the size of government, that is why it is not popular with people like Bernie Sanders. People would not have to wait while Congress fights over the details.


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