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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:02 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
I highly doubt that we're going to lose truckers, they are essential for even online purchases.

They're not essential if the trucks can drive themselves, and they will be starting next year. Amazon has already ordered a bunch from Tesla. One by one, every long haul trucker will be replaced by an ipad sized computer, and eventually the shorter haul truckers too. It's only a matter of time.

Heck, my job as a computer programmer is already getting AI replacement versions that can write code at lightning speed. Scary to say the least, but it is slightly nostalgic to be one of the last of a dying breed.

If so I am getting off the road. I for one don't trust what I can't have some real control over. I will be in front of trying to outlaw these unsafe vehicles. Ai is fine for factories and stuff like that. For roads, I refuse to even ride in a vehicle that I don't know is safe.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:03 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
If so I am getting off the road. I for one don't trust what I can't have some real control over. I will be in front of trying to outlaw these unsafe vehicles. Ai is fine for factories and stuff like that. For roads, I refuse to even ride in a vehicle that I don't know is safe.



When I was in college way back in the early 70's a popular book was "Future Shock". It's conclusion is just as timely today as then. It predicted that technology would proceed at such a pace that eventually workers would be displaced, and society would have to deal with the problems that would create. Many old jobs will become a thing of the past. There will be new jobs created in Green Energy as we move off of fossil fuels, also infrastructure repair and improvement will provide jobs, if we ever get around to funding it.

UBI will be the only way to avoid widespread suffering of the masses who will not be able to adjust to the new reality of economic long term changes in this country. That is why it is critical to make investments in the future, and not be mired in what has worked in the past. You cannot continue down the road where 10 or 11% of the citizens have most of everything and the rest are fighting over the scrapes from the table. That will lead to a political upheaval in this country, which the outcome could be drastic, instead of slower and more orderly. If reforms aren't adopted now, they may be forced by circumstances later. At least if they are worked on now it might save a lot of trouble down the road. The recent back and forth over the last stimulus bill is a good example of the government fiddling while Rome aka the U.S. burns.

P.S. You do realize Danny that when you get on a plane except for taking off and landing most of the time the ship is on auto pilot. That the job of the old navigator is now done by computer and global tracking to get you to your destination. If you can fly a plane by remote control, then I don't see why a truck could not be driven using the same technology.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:39 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
If so I am getting off the road. I for one don't trust what I can't have some real control over. I will be in front of trying to outlaw these unsafe vehicles. Ai is fine for factories and stuff like that. For roads, I refuse to even ride in a vehicle that I don't know is safe.



When I was in college way back in the early 70's a popular book was "Future Shock". It's conclusion is just as timely today as then. It predicted that technology would proceed at such a pace that eventually workers would be displaced, and society would have to deal with the problems that would create. Many old jobs will become a thing of the past. There will be new jobs created in Green Energy as we move off of fossil fuels, also infrastructure repair and improvement will provide jobs, if we ever get around to funding it.

UBI will be the only way to avoid widespread suffering of the masses who will not be able to adjust to the new reality of economic long term changes in this country. That is why it is critical to make investments in the future, and not be mired in what has worked in the past. You cannot continue down the road where 10 or 11% of the citizens have most of everything and the rest are fighting over the scrapes from the table. That will lead to a political upheaval in this country, which the outcome could be drastic, instead of slower and more orderly. If reforms aren't adopted now, they may be forced by circumstances later. At least if they are worked on now it might save a lot of trouble down the road. The recent back and forth over the last stimulus bill is a good example of the government fiddling while Rome aka the U.S. burns.

P.S. You do realize Danny that when you get on a plane except for taking off and landing most of the time the ship is on auto pilot. That the job of the old navigator is now done by computer and global tracking to get you to your destination. If you can fly a plane by remote control, then I don't see why a truck could not be driven using the same technology.

Okay, in town how do they know that it is their turn to go at a plain old stop sign. All of us will have to adjust our driving just to allow them to go before we do and I am sure that there are some morons who refuse to take their logs turn much less allow a truck to go through the intersection before they go forward. Tesla has already had deaths of pedestrians by their cars in testing for taxis.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:50 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
Okay, in town how do they know that it is their turn to go at a plain old stop sign. All of us will have to adjust our driving just to allow them to go before we do and I am sure that there are some morons who refuse to take their logs turn much less allow a truck to go through the intersection before they go forward. Tesla has already had deaths of pedestrians by their cars in testing for taxis.



Danny do you really think that big business cares if a few pedestrians who were probably Jay walking die, if they can cut their shipping costs by not paying drivers, or having to spend on their benefits? If other human drivers are making errors don't you think all of these auto rigs will be equipped with cameras, recording every aspect of changing traffic conditions? You have to face the facts that you can't hold back progress, even if that progress hurts others. Good example what happened to the American Indians, they could not stop the Westward Expansion, though they tried. Like them we will have to learn how to live in a new technological reality, even if we don't like it.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:47 am 
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Well the fat is in the fire. Seems like Trump has made a video calling for giving a direct payment of $2,000.00 per person $4,000.00 per couple. If he had done that before the election he just might have won? Of course Nancy and Chuck are all in. That leaves the Republicans and Mitch in a bind, since they are only offering a measly 600.00. It is plain that direct payments are here to stay. Biden is already talking about a third wave of stimulus payments.

This is all well and good but if we are going down the road of direct payments to citizens, we better do it right. We should pass legislation to make it permanent. To start building the economy from the bottom up, and forget this supply side, trickle down nonsense that has failed over the last 50 or so years!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:17 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Well the fat is in the fire. Seems like Trump has made a video calling for giving a direct payment of $2,000.00 per person $4,000.00 per couple.

this is very calculated by his close circle.
the $2,000 will never hit the floor in the senate for a vote, they wouldn't even discuss the $1,200 number the Dems were proposing since it was way more than appropriate (which McTurtlehead said that $0 was appropriate for the American people)
Trump knows that.
the stimulus bill is tacked onto the omnibus spending bill (the stop gap to keep the government open)
Trump knows they are together and if he veto's the stimulus, he veto's the omnibus.
he is also in a position for a pocket veto which can not be over-ridden by congress.
veto the bill, demand parts that he knows will not be passed, then the whole thing collapses.
the government shuts down Wednesday next week without the omnibus bill passing.
now he lights the country on fire, shuts down the government, makes sure we get no stimulus payments at all, and walks away leaving Biden no government, broke citizens, a raging pandemic, and a collapsed economy.
january 21st it will be him and his supporters crying "look's like you libs got what you wanted, sleepy Joe destroyed the country already".

this is a very calculated attack on the entire country and designed to destroy it as retaliation for not giving him the win.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:00 pm 
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Only one small problem, all of those stock holders who make up the barely 11% that own 92% of all the stock. Are they going to let Trump destroy the economy? If they did then we would see a radical surge both on the Left and the Right, at the same time. It could end up pulling everything down at once and pave the way for fundamental reform in this country?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:21 am 
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Well, it ended up being $600, a far cry from these $2000... Still, let's look at Germany: they gave everyone income during the lockdown months of this spring, and even gave a full living wage to all freelancers, including artists. Since it included many beginning musicians or people drawing according to requests on Instagram, I guess it included karaoke hosts, too.
And they're one of the countries that handled the pandemic with the best results, worldwide.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:21 am 
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For those of you who still think direct payments are a bad thing, let's look at the fact that most Americans want a bigger direct payment, not a smaller one. The real problem is we are doing this all wrong. If we were to adopt UBI in a formal bill we could make a one time payment of a few trillion dollars and everyone would receive a UBI check every month. It would be paid for by a specific VAT that would only go to fund the program. This would lift millions of people out of poverty, and when they did lose a job they would have money coming in every month. This would help keep the economy from going into the cycles of boom or bust. We would not see people evicted from their homes, or forced to wait in lines for food.

I know that 11% of the people who own 92% of this country wouldn't like it. If they don't they could always go to some other country, and let the rest of us get on with our lives. They won't leave because let's face it they have it good here, even if millions don't.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:06 am 
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Yeah, there's that, too: people getting UBI would start buying stuff and services, and would prevent thousands of companies from getting bankrupt.
Less companies getting bankrupt means less unemployment, less evictions, less crime, and thus, less federal spending in the long run. Plus, the benefits made by these companies would be taxed.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:05 am 
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I have to laugh at Moscow Mitch. He says that $2,000.00 checks is Socialism given to the rich. What does he think the FED bailout of the Securities Markets was, payments to large farm corporations, and big contracts to the defense industries. They are all being paid for with tax dollars, that will have to be paid back by future generations, along with the trillions of dollars in tax breaks to the wealthy. It is all Socialism, the only difference is who is getting it. Isn't it time the people who actually need the money, and pay the taxes, get the benefits of the government payouts?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:14 am 
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Funny it just might be greed that determines the Georgia elections tomorrow! There are still millions of voters out there hurting and want bigger checks. It all depends on who shows up to the polls. One thing for certain as income inequality continues to worsen in this country, the more likely that some form of regular direct payments might be voted in. To do that the Democrats would need to have the majority in the Senate, and get rid of Moscow Mitch. One thing is for sure when you have such an economic gap in any country, history shows it leads to social upheaval and reform. The bigger the gap the more radical the reform.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:43 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Funny it just might be greed that determines the Georgia elections tomorrow! There are still millions of voters out there hurting and want bigger checks. It all depends on who shows up to the polls. One thing for certain as income inequality continues to worsen in this country, the more likely that some form of regular direct payments might be voted in. To do that the Democrats would need to have the majority in the Senate, and get rid of Moscow Mitch. One thing is for sure when you have such an economic gap in any country, history shows it leads to social upheaval and reform. The bigger the gap the more radical the reform.

And the Republicans might be able to forgive the Republican candidates because they said that they both supported the bill for the 2000 Dollar checks but that Mitch McConnell blocked them from voting for it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:09 am 
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Don't get your hopes up Danny, both of these Republican Senators have made a complete 180 when it comes to the size of the check. They were perfectly happy and voted for the 600.00 amount remember? One thing is for sure if Mitch retains the majority today, you can forget any kind of meaningful reform from being done by this Congress, for the next two years at least. We are going to continue to drift, and probably going to end up ripe for an hard right dictatorship being imposed on this country, in 2024. After all tomorrow an attempted coup is happening with the challenging in the House and the Senate, of the legal elections held in November. This is an open attempt to subvert the will of the people, and the rights of states to conduct their own elections, without Congressional interference. Something the founding fathers didn't want was for Congress to choose the president, not the vote of the people.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:53 am 
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I guess miracles still happen! It is looking like both Georgia Senate seats will go to the Democrats. That The Grim Reaper" aka Moscow Mitch will no longer be the majority leader of the Senate, that we will get more stimulus relief, voting rights expanded, infrastructure, maybe a public option for health, student debt relief, social security and medicare reform, and of course UBI being establishing direct payments to citizens on a regular basis. This will also enable president Biden to get his nominations for important cabinet positions passed. Maybe Bernie Sanders being put in charge of the Budget Committee for instance.

Who is to blame for this historic moment, who else Desperate Donald. He single handily made it possible by starting a civil war in the Republican Party in Georgia, that divided that party on the eve of this important vote. Let us hope that the Democrats will take their majority and use it wisely.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:55 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Don't get your hopes up Danny, both of these Republican Senators have made a complete 180 when it comes to the size of the check. They were perfectly happy and voted for the 600.00 amount remember? One thing is for sure if Mitch retains the majority today, you can forget any kind of meaningful reform from being done by this Congress, for the next two years at least. We are going to continue to drift, and probably going to end up ripe for an hard right dictatorship being imposed on this country, in 2024. After all tomorrow an attempted coup is happening with the challenging in the House and the Senate, of the legal elections held in November. This is an open attempt to subvert the will of the people, and the rights of states to conduct their own elections, without Congressional interference. Something the founding fathers didn't want was for Congress to choose the president, not the vote of the people.

I was saying that the whole 2000 dollar checks were a Republican scam that they only said that they were in favor to try and get a sympathy vote from their followers. They knew that they would hurt their chances of getting elected by saying that they would vote no on the checks but they didn't really want to vote yes just for votes so they concocted a scenario where they could say that they were in favor of them without having to vote on them and Mitch McConnell helped them achieve that.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:31 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
I was saying that the whole 2000 dollar checks were a Republican scam that they only said that they were in favor to try and get a sympathy vote from their followers. They knew that they would hurt their chances of getting elected by saying that they would vote no on the checks but they didn't really want to vote yes just for votes so they concocted a scenario where they could say that they were in favor of them without having to vote on them and Mitch McConnell helped them achieve that.



It is kinda of a moot point now wouldn't you agree Danny? Whatever the reason for the scam, now that the Senate majority will be with the Democrats, at least Mitch can't stop it from getting on the floor, and having a transparent up or down vote. Then we will see where every Senator's vote went, don't think it won't be used against them in the next election, if they vote it down.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:25 am 
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Surprise surprise, W.V. Senator Joe Manchin came out in opposition to another $2,000.00 per person in direct payments. When it was determined that the Democrat majority wasn't solid, and that more payments might not happen during the administration of Biden, the stock market collapsed in value. When that happened then Senator Joe changed his tune and walked his opposition back. His spokesperson said that what he meant was that fighting the pandemic should be job number one. He represents one of the poorest states in the country, I'm sure his supporters could use the money.

I still find it difficult to see why their is such opposition to direct payments. Both Democrats and Republicans approved them during this pandemic. Wall Street understands that pumping money into the economy is what is needed to keep stock values high. Both parties are going to have to reach the conclusion that building an economic floor in this country is badly needed. It will not only keep millions of Americans from falling into poverty, but will also stop the endless cycles of boom and bust in this country.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:48 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Surprise surprise, W.V. Senator Joe Manchin came out in opposition to another $2,000.00 per person in direct payments. When it was determined that the Democrat majority wasn't solid, and that more payments might not happen during the administration of Biden, the stock market collapsed in value. When that happened then Senator Joe changed his tune and walked his opposition back. His spokesperson said that what he meant was that fighting the pandemic should be job number one. He represents one of the poorest states in the country, I'm sure his supporters could use the money.

I still find it difficult to see why their is such opposition to direct payments. Both Democrats and Republicans approved them during this pandemic. Wall Street understands that pumping money into the economy is what is needed to keep stock values high. Both parties are going to have to reach the conclusion that building an economic floor in this country is badly needed. It will not only keep millions of Americans from falling into poverty, but will also stop the endless cycles of boom and bust in this country.

wall street knows that pumping money into their own pockets is what keeps stocks high. as long as the companies get given the money, the stocks increase. don't forget, stock prices are not about people, only about corporate profits. if they can get more money into the corporate coffers without having to pay employees or have any additional overhead, that raises stock prices. higher employment lowers stock prices since they have to pay those employees.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:56 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
wall street knows that pumping money into their own pockets is what keeps stocks high. as long as the companies get given the money, the stocks increase. don't forget, stock prices are not about people, only about corporate profits. if they can get more money into the corporate coffers without having to pay employees or have any additional overhead, that raises stock prices. higher employment lowers stock prices since they have to pay those employees.



Actually the money that is pumped into Wall Streets pocket comes from two sources, consumers and government. The consumers don't have any money now, or if they do they are sitting on it. The FED primed the market pump at the beginning of the pandemic, printing up 4 Trillion dollars to keep the markets afloat, that is why stocks didn't tank, and the richest 1% made over 460 billion dollars during this time.

I'm just wondering when companies start to realize that if they really want to make more profits, they start supporting the public option as far a health care? Years ago the Conservative Party in Britain figured out it is much cheaper to have the government run health care. In this country freeing up employers from having to provide health care for employees would improve the bottom line. Just like having UBI would help with a major source of the revenues, consumer spending. Ending the cycle of Boom and Bust, associated with unfettered Capitalism.


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