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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 3:43 am 
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:!: The answer is simple Mr.Scott UBI. If everyone were paid a basic income in addition to whatever other money they earned, they would have enough to take care of their families, and not have to risk there lives doing it. That is why both sides of the isle are seriously discussing it right now. If the goal is survival then this might be the only option, unless you already have a steady source of income, or just happen to be rich.


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 5:05 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Bob Latshaw wrote:

Especially once the alcohol kicks in. If you are a high risk candidate, a bar is NOT the place to go. This is only for super troopers who are low risk or already immune. Drunk people tend to forget rules and you don't want to be there when they decide everyone needs a hug ;)


:roll: You have my permission to hug every last drunken one, if that is what you want to do, prove that you are indeed low risk or already immune. Oh that's right you don't know you haven't been tested have you, oh well just roll the dice, just hope they don't come up snake eyes!


Hey Einstein, for starters, you don't need to be tested to know you're low risk, unless of course you don't have the mental capacity to understand the concept and need a doctor to explain it to you in easy to understand language. Also, in no way did I indicate that hugging a drunk person was anything I wanted to do or encouraged anyone else to do either. In fact, I highlighted the word "NOT" in describing the bar as "NOT the place to go" for high risk people.


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 5:18 am 
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To be honest, I asked my roommate, 63 years old and being treated for cancer, if she was willing to take the risk of getting the virus at a show or staying home once karaoke is allowed to start up and she told me she would rather go to karaoke and singing, provided the host took proper precautions themselves, than just stay home. In between songs she would wear her mask and observe as close to social distancing as she possibly can. I would run any drunk who was trying to get too close to her away.

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 5:18 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
:!: The answer is simple Mr.Scott UBI. If everyone were paid a basic income in addition to whatever other money they earned, they would have enough to take care of their families, and not have to risk there lives doing it. That is why both sides of the isle are seriously discussing it right now. If the goal is survival then this might be the only option, unless you already have a steady source of income, or just happen to be rich.


What I believe in is, the basic needs of humanity should not be taxed and should be made available to all humankind.... water, food and shelter. Other than that, I think it's up to us as individuals to be able to provide the rest for ourselves. That includes education, health care, transportation and retirement (Social Security in my opinion should not have even been overseen by the government, they are too free with our money). That is where you and I differ. Not all people are willing to put in an effort to provide for themselves. It's the government's job to protect our freedoms and rights, it's not their job to provide anything for us. They work for us, we don't work for them. We as citizens should demand that they know that they are replaceable very easily and never forget that. What you are talking about is the start of true socialism, and that will NEVER work. It has been tried and proven to fail before. Our government can print all the money they want, and it just keeps making it worth less and less all the time. If a person is handed free "stuff" their entire life, it makes them lazy and weak and will never get off their lazy duffs to provide or work for anything for themselves. It's the silver spoon recipe for dissension. This may be a cliche, but it holds true to all things. "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink". When that horse is thirsty enough, he will find the water under his own power and take that drink.


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 5:20 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
To be honest, I asked my roommate, 63 years old and being treated for cancer, if she was willing to take the risk of getting the virus at a show or staying home once karaoke is allowed to start up and she told me she would rather go to karaoke and singing, provided the host took proper precautions themselves, than just stay home. In between songs she would wear her mask and observe as close to social distancing as she possibly can. I would run any drunk who was trying to get too close to her away.


This is exactly what I am talking about Danny. Life has a lot to offer, and that does include the joy people can get from karaoke.


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 5:28 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:

Hey Einstein, for starters, you don't need to be tested to know you're low risk, unless of course you don't have the mental capacity to understand the concept and need a doctor to explain it to you in easy to understand language. Also, in no way did I indicate that hugging a drunk person was anything I wanted to do or encouraged anyone else to do either. In fact, I highlighted the word "NOT" in describing the bar as "NOT the place to go" for high risk people.



:? Bob you are just fooling yourself, all the experts including Dr. Fauci and many others say we need testing, testing, testing, and more testing, we also need social distancing, contact tracing, and isolation for those infected or just carriers, until they can no longer transmit the disease. You know once everyone is drinking the first part of the brain that goes is reason. That means you will be hugging people, and getting close to them. They are there to forget the problems what is there problem? Surviving the virus. You are trying to shape the facts to fit the reality you want, like I have stated before the date of June the First is just 3 weeks away. We can see if this unlocking of the economy was a good move or not, won't we?


Last edited by The Lone Ranger on Sun May 10, 2020 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 5:30 am 
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mrscott wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
:!: The answer is simple Mr.Scott UBI. If everyone were paid a basic income in addition to whatever other money they earned, they would have enough to take care of their families, and not have to risk there lives doing it. That is why both sides of the isle are seriously discussing it right now. If the goal is survival then this might be the only option, unless you already have a steady source of income, or just happen to be rich.


What I believe in is, the basic needs of humanity should not be taxed and should be made available to all humankind.... water, food and shelter. Other than that, I think it's up to us as individuals to be able to provide the rest for ourselves. That includes education, health care, transportation and retirement (Social Security in my opinion should not have even been overseen by the government, they are too free with our money). That is where you and I differ. Not all people are willing to put in an effort to provide for themselves. It's the government's job to protect our freedoms and rights, it's not their job to provide anything for us. They work for us, we don't work for them. We as citizens should demand that they know that they are replaceable very easily and never forget that. What you are talking about is the start of true socialism, and that will NEVER work. It has been tried and proven to fail before. Our government can print all the money they want, and it just keeps making it worth less and less all the time. If a person is handed free "stuff" their entire life, it makes them lazy and weak and will never get off their lazy duffs to provide or work for anything for themselves. It's the silver spoon recipe for dissension. This may be a cliche, but it holds true to all things. "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink". When that horse is thirsty enough, he will find the water under his own power and take that drink.

It's all because the greed of the CEOs of Insurance that government needs to step in and make healthcare the inalienable right it should have been in the first place. I am on SSDI and I still want to work part time. So getting UBI doesn't mean that the person receiving it is lazy. I use the SSDI money to pay for my basic needs and the money made from working part time as a karaoke host for payment for karaoke needs and anything extra that I may want.

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 5:40 am 
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mrscott wrote:

What I believe in is, the basic needs of humanity should not be taxed and should be made available to all humankind.... water, food and shelter. Other than that, I think it's up to us as individuals to be able to provide the rest for ourselves. That includes education, health care, transportation and retirement (Social Security in my opinion should not have even been overseen by the government, they are too free with our money). That is where you and I differ. Not all people are willing to put in an effort to provide for themselves. It's the government's job to protect our freedoms and rights, it's not their job to provide anything for us. They work for us, we don't work for them. We as citizens should demand that they know that they are replaceable very easily and never forget that. What you are talking about is the start of true socialism, and that will NEVER work. It has been tried and proven to fail before. Our government can print all the money they want, and it just keeps making it worth less and less all the time. If a person is handed free "stuff" their entire life, it makes them lazy and weak and will never get off their lazy duffs to provide or work for anything for themselves. It's the silver spoon recipe for dissension. This may be a cliche, but it holds true to all things. "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink". When that horse is thirsty enough, he will find the water under his own power and take that drink.


:shock: It is simply not true Mr.Scott that this country doesn't already have socialism ingrained in it. What do you think Social Security and Medicare are? I don't see too many people wanting to end the programs too soon, especially seniors that use them, and generally vote Conservative. In Europe for years there have been well developed social security nets, and public health options in place. The government is already printing money through the FED to keep the stock market afloat during this pandemic, in fact the amount of money pumped in by the FED is 4 trillion dollars, almost twice what has been given to the rest of the suffering society. I differ with you, where UBI has been tried on a limited scale, the workers used the extra money on self improvement, to get a better job, pulling themselves up. One of the biggest government success stories was the G.I.bill after WWII, millions of Veterans took advantage of the benefit to improve their education, and earning capacity, I should know I'm one of them.

Not to mention that many large corporations get corporate welfare aka Socialism. Didn't the government bailout Auto's, banks, and large Insurance companies, not letting them fail? Aren't we right now giving 500 billion dollars to business's such as the airlines, and hospitality so they don't go belly up? If we can finally free workers from the choice of working or dying, I think UBI is not to big a price to pay.

P.S. The point is Scottie if the horse gets no water at all it will die.


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 6:01 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
mrscott wrote:
It's all because the greed of the CEOs of Insurance that government needs to step in and make healthcare the inalienable right it should have been in the first place. I am on SSDI and I still want to work part time. So getting UBI doesn't mean that the person receiving it is lazy. I use the SSDI money to pay for my basic needs and the money made from working part time as a karaoke host for payment for karaoke needs and anything extra that I may want.



:?: This proves my point thank you Danny. Even though you are now getting government funds, you still want to work, it hasn't made you lazy. All UBI does is build from the bottom up instead of the top down that we have been doing in this country for the last over two hundred years. It provides a economic floor that citizens can't fall below. This would eliminate much of the homeless problem Mrmarog is always railing against. Leaving only the mentally ill and the substance abuse people on the street, where they can be targeted with programs to help their private situations. If UBI were in place right now Mr.Scott you would not have to run the risk of getting infected, spreading the virus to your community maybe, and you could wait out the virus, until a vaccine is ready. Why should the wealthy and the retired be the only one's with that option?


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 6:03 am 
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mrscott wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
To be honest, I asked my roommate, 63 years old and being treated for cancer, if she was willing to take the risk of getting the virus at a show or staying home once karaoke is allowed to start up and she told me she would rather go to karaoke and singing, provided the host took proper precautions themselves, than just stay home. In between songs she would wear her mask and observe as close to social distancing as she possibly can. I would run any drunk who was trying to get too close to her away.


This is exactly what I am talking about Danny. Life has a lot to offer, and that does include the joy people can get from karaoke.

As someone else said; karaoke is used to draw a crowd. This is not the time that you want to be drawing one. And that includes sporting events, concerts, etc. As long as we allow these types of gatererings, we will never get rid of this virus.

It might be a little different if there was a vaccine and a cure... but there's not. So, at this time... I don't think any venue should offer entertainment.

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 6:04 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
mrscott wrote:

What I believe in is, the basic needs of humanity should not be taxed and should be made available to all humankind.... water, food and shelter. Other than that, I think it's up to us as individuals to be able to provide the rest for ourselves. That includes education, health care, transportation and retirement (Social Security in my opinion should not have even been overseen by the government, they are too free with our money). That is where you and I differ. Not all people are willing to put in an effort to provide for themselves. It's the government's job to protect our freedoms and rights, it's not their job to provide anything for us. They work for us, we don't work for them. We as citizens should demand that they know that they are replaceable very easily and never forget that. What you are talking about is the start of true socialism, and that will NEVER work. It has been tried and proven to fail before. Our government can print all the money they want, and it just keeps making it worth less and less all the time. If a person is handed free "stuff" their entire life, it makes them lazy and weak and will never get off their lazy duffs to provide or work for anything for themselves. It's the silver spoon recipe for dissension. This may be a cliche, but it holds true to all things. "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink". When that horse is thirsty enough, he will find the water under his own power and take that drink.


:shock: It is simply not true Mr.Scott that this country doesn't already have socialism ingrained in it. What do you think Social Security and Medicare are? I don't see too many people wanting to end the programs too soon, especially seniors that use them, and generally vote Conservative. In Europe for years there have been well developed social security nets, and public health options in place. The government is already printing money through the FED to keep the stock market afloat during this pandemic, in fact the amount of money pumped in by the FED is 4 trillion dollars, almost twice what has been given to the rest of the suffering society. I differ with you, where UBI has been tried on a limited scale, the workers used the extra money on self improvement, to get a better job, pulling themselves up. One of the biggest government success stories was the G.I.bill after WWII, millions of Veterans took advantage of the benefit to improve their education, and earning capacity, I should know I'm one of them.

Not to mention that many large corporations get corporate welfare aka Socialism. Didn't the government bailout Auto's, banks, and large Insurance companies, not letting them fail? Aren't we right now giving 500 billion dollars to business's such as the airlines, and hospitality so they don't go belly up? If we can finally free workers from the choice of working or dying, I think UBI is not to big a price to pay.


I will never convince you otherwise of anything because to be frank, you are set in your ways. As I am too. I just see thinks from a more simple perspective, maybe even a bit naive even. I think of the government as overstepping their intended purpose. All these programs or benefits you speak of are truly good in so many ways, but I think it's not the governments place to use or misuse our money we have worked for all our lives. Social Security for one is not a handout. 7.65% of the income that I have earned has gone into that "program" for the last 43 years, and I will never be able to use it the way it was intended. If I would have taken that same percentage from the beginning and put it into a simple savings account, I would have been much farther ahead financially in my retirement years. Let's not forget the possibility that it could have earned so much more with the proper investments.

The purpose of the government is to protect us from being taken advantage of and our rights to be trodden. The bailouts you speak of in my opinion were not a good idea. Those industries or business's you speak of were lead by greedy individuals who broke or abused the system. They are the ones responsible for the failures and should have been held accountable. Yet they were allowed to continue with bailout after bailout, which in my opinion should never have taken place. Succeed or fail, those business's should have been left on their own accord to tell which direction they went.

Again, you keep bringing up how this all boils down to political control and I think the control should be ours.


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 6:14 am 
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mrscott wrote:

I will never convince you otherwise of anything because to be frank, you are set in your ways. As I am too. I just see thinks from a more simple perspective, maybe even a bit naive even. I think of the government as overstepping their intended purpose. All these programs or benefits you speak of are truly good in so many ways, but I think it's not the governments place to use or misuse our money we have worked for all our lives. Social Security for one is not a handout. 7.65% of the income that I have earned has gone into that "program" for the last 43 years, and I will never be able to use it the way it was intended. If I would have taken that same percentage from the beginning and put it into a simple savings account, I would have been much farther ahead financially in my retirement years. Let's not forget the possibility that it could have earned so much more with the proper investments.

The purpose of the government is to protect us from being taken advantage of and our rights to be trodden. The bailouts you speak of in my opinion were not a good idea. Those industries or business's you speak of were lead by greedy individuals who broke or abused the system. They are the ones responsible for the failures and should have been held accountable. Yet they were allowed to continue with bailout after bailout, which in my opinion should never have taken place. Succeed or fail, those business's should have been left on their own accord to tell which direction they went.

Again, you keep bringing up how this all boils down to political control and I think the control should be ours.



:roll: That is the whole point Mr.Scott by paying everyone direct including yourself you are deciding how the money is used. It doesn't have to be filtered or trickled down, with several middle men taking their cuts on it's journey. We both agree that the 1950's under Eisenhower were the best times for this country. You know and I know that the country was closer to Socialism than at any other time, the effective tax rate on the wealthy was over 90%. They still lived well and so did the rest of us. By making it to be possible for all of us to be master's of our own ships, it will open up opportunities to individuals, that have all been reserved for the upper crust of this country. Didn't you yourself put money away for retirement, and then have to take it out to live. Wouldn't it have been nice to be getting an income so you didn't have to tap into your nest egg?

P.S. In an ideal world yes the rich should be made to pay for breaking the law, it just doesn't happen in the real world. Why shouldn't the rest of us get our cut of the pie, everyone else is helping themselves, and we are paying for the pie.


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 6:18 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
mrscott wrote:
It's all because the greed of the CEOs of Insurance that government needs to step in and make healthcare the inalienable right it should have been in the first place. I am on SSDI and I still want to work part time. So getting UBI doesn't mean that the person receiving it is lazy. I use the SSDI money to pay for my basic needs and the money made from working part time as a karaoke host for payment for karaoke needs and anything extra that I may want.



:?: This proves my point thank you Danny. Even though you are now getting government funds, you still want to work, it hasn't made you lazy. All UBI does is build from the bottom up instead of the top down that we have been doing in this country for the last over two hundred years. It provides a economic floor that citizens can't fall below. This would eliminate much of the homeless problem Mrmarog is always railing against. Leaving only the mentally ill and the substance abuse people on the street, where they can be targeted with programs to help their private situations. If UBI were in place right now Mr.Scott you would not have to run the risk of getting infected, spreading the virus to your community maybe, and you could wait out the virus, until a vaccine is ready. Why should the wealthy and the retired be the only one's with that option?


No, I disagree. It doesn't prove anything other that "Danny" was not lazy,,,, humankind is lazy.

I lived on an Indian reservation for 8 years. And many (not all) of those tribal members were given subsidies and handouts their entire lives. They were given housing, food, healthcare, trust funds, and in many cases even "jobs". Sadly, they never appreciated what they had been given. They never "had" to work for anything. They squandered money and would quickly take their housing and turn it into slums and run down homes that were once new. They would take their monthly "benefit money" and spend it like it was bottomless,,, eat steak on the first of the month, and be having to eat squirrel by the middle of the month, and be eating beans and rice by the end of the month..... this is actual facts. The trust funds would be given to them when they turned 18 years old (many of these checks would be 30-40 thousand dollars) and they would buy a new vehicle and it would be trashed within a few months. They would not think wisely and work towards their futures. That is the silver spoon effect. They had no reason to work for them self. That is how socialism will work too. The more people who use improperly these programs, the more that the ones who are actually working have to work to provide for those using it. Then eventually, they will get tired of working for someone else, causing the failure of socialism as a whole. That is what Venezuela did under a government that was corrupt. And if you think our government isn't corrupt, you are sadly blinded.


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:? Not all Indians live on the reservation, many leave, got to Indian schools, and live out here with the rest of us, it just depends on the individual.


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 6:22 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
mrscott wrote:

I will never convince you otherwise of anything because to be frank, you are set in your ways. As I am too. I just see thinks from a more simple perspective, maybe even a bit naive even. I think of the government as overstepping their intended purpose. All these programs or benefits you speak of are truly good in so many ways, but I think it's not the governments place to use or misuse our money we have worked for all our lives. Social Security for one is not a handout. 7.65% of the income that I have earned has gone into that "program" for the last 43 years, and I will never be able to use it the way it was intended. If I would have taken that same percentage from the beginning and put it into a simple savings account, I would have been much farther ahead financially in my retirement years. Let's not forget the possibility that it could have earned so much more with the proper investments.

The purpose of the government is to protect us from being taken advantage of and our rights to be trodden. The bailouts you speak of in my opinion were not a good idea. Those industries or business's you speak of were lead by greedy individuals who broke or abused the system. They are the ones responsible for the failures and should have been held accountable. Yet they were allowed to continue with bailout after bailout, which in my opinion should never have taken place. Succeed or fail, those business's should have been left on their own accord to tell which direction they went.

Again, you keep bringing up how this all boils down to political control and I think the control should be ours.



:roll: That is the whole point Mr.Scott by paying everyone direct including yourself you are deciding how the money is used. It doesn't have to be filtered or trickled down, with several middle men taking their cuts on it's journey. We both agree that the 1950's under Eisenhower were the best times for this country. You know and I know that the country was closer to Socialism than at any other time, the effective tax rate on the wealthy was over 90%. They still lived well and so did the rest of us. By making it to be possible for all of us to be master's of our own ships, it will open up opportunities to individuals, that have all been reserved for the upper crust of this country. Didn't you yourself put money away for retirement, and then have to take it out to live. Wouldn't it have been nice to be getting an income so you didn't have to tap into your nest egg?

P.S. In an ideal world yes the rich should be made to pay for breaking the law, it just doesn't happen in the real world. Why shouldn't the rest of us get our cut of the pie, everyone else is helping themselves, and we are paying for the pie.


I had to cash out my nest egg (as you call it) because of what some crooked set of individuals did to the economy. And they should be held accountable. Sadly, they were not because some of those same people had their hands in certain elected government officials pockets. The entire system is broken and we let it happen, and people keep letting it happen again and again.


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The Lone Ranger wrote:
:? Not all Indians live on the reservation, many leave, got to Indian schools, and live out here with the rest of us, it just depends on the individual.


Yes, "many" of them do,,, yet "many" of them stay on those reservations and upset the balance of the economy. Socialism WILL NOT WORK.


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If those programs are funded by the individual end user, that is not socialism, it's more like a CO-OP, and as long as the elected people to oversee the programs are doing their short term jobs, then CO-OPs work marvelously.

But isn't this a conversation better suited for your political view thread?


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mrscott wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
:? Not all Indians live on the reservation, many leave, got to Indian schools, and live out here with the rest of us, it just depends on the individual.


Yes, "many" of them do,,, yet "many" of them stay on those reservations and upset the balance of the economy. Socialism WILL NOT WORK.


:?: Isn't that what we call free will, how can you exercise free will, if you don't have the economic freedom to do so? I spent my whole life earning so in my so called golden years, I could finally exercise my free will, and not have to worry about the economic constraints I was born into. I don't see it as socialism, rather is is leveling the playing field so all have a chance at the American Dream. Not just a few who know how to game the system.


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The Lone Ranger wrote:
mrscott wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
:? Not all Indians live on the reservation, many leave, got to Indian schools, and live out here with the rest of us, it just depends on the individual.


Yes, "many" of them do,,, yet "many" of them stay on those reservations and upset the balance of the economy. Socialism WILL NOT WORK.


:?: Isn't that what we call free will, how can you exercise free will, if you don't have the economic freedom to do so? I spent my whole life earning so in my so called golden years, I could finally exercise my free will, and not have to worry about the economic constraints I was born into. I don't see it as socialism, rather is is leveling the playing field so all have a chance at the American Dream. Not just a few who know how to game the system.


Yes, you worked all those years. What I am saying is those who CHOOSE to not work, should not reap the same end benefits from social "programs", including many of those you speak of. If those who DO work all their lives to provide for those who sit on their behinds expecting to be "taken care of" in their golden years, I say "nerts" to them, they earn exactly what they should get, which should be nothing. The Little Red Hen would be proud.


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 7:08 am 
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mrscott wrote:

I had to cash out my nest egg (as you call it) because of what some crooked set of individuals did to the economy. And they should be held accountable. Sadly, they were not because some of those same people had their hands in certain elected government officials pockets. The entire system is broken and we let it happen, and people keep letting it happen again and again.


:?: So if you had been paid your 7.65% all this time wouldn't it be gone to since your would have invested the same way. That is why defined retirement systems are important, they can't be manipulated by the crooks of the world. It would be a very simple mater to solve the Social Security short fall by simply having the Social Security 2100 Act. That would make Social Security solvent until the year 2100. If it is going to happen again and again and again, shouldn't we be getting something back, we are paying all of the money in?


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