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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 2:21 pm 
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If I may borrow a couple good quotes from Helen Keller...


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 4:38 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
After reading what you (mrscott) wrote about your experience on your first night back, I find it truly disgusting and proves once again what a bunch of fuc#ing morons people are.

You say that you and the waitress were the only ones to wear a mask. Obviously, these people could care less about their own safety let alone the safety of others.

Then you say that social distancing was not followed since people were hugging each other and not keeping their distance. Totally pathetic. This is what we call a bunch of losers and why this is never going to go away. Because nobody will tale precautions and work together.... especially now, since there is no cure or vaccine.

Because of this display of stupidity among the patrons at the bar, I have no doubt in my mind that the spread of this virus is going to increase tenfold in a very short time in your state.

What the <span style=font-size:10px><i>(@$%&#!)</i></span> is wrong with people?

And the establishment is also to blame. Most bars and restaurants are only allowing 50% capacity, have kept tables at least 6 feet apart and even put partitions up between them. And they enforce social distancing and do not let anybody sit at the bar. And they close by 11 PM.

Sorry but don't think that your low numbers are going to last for long. I got news for you... it's great that you're wearing a mask but you are still at risk since you are in an environment where nobody else seems to care. Remember, doctors and nurses wear masks and gloves but have still contacted the Corona Virus from patients. So, I wouldn't bet my life on wearing a mask. You are a sheep in the lions den.

So my advice to you is... since there is not yet a cure or vaccine, and since the people in the bar don't care about doing the right thing, if you value your life, I would not be doing this at this time.


Alan, first of all, let me just tell you that I think you are being way over the top on your assessment and response. You remind me seriously of what I call "gloom and doomers". Is your bomb shelter complete yet? Are you one of those people who drive around in your own car wearing your mask, too afraid of a germ flying in the window? Your response is what I see as over reactive to say the least.

I am very confident in our safety and our health concerns where we are. In our county, there has been only 6 total cases reported, 4 of which have already recovered, one is in the hospital currently, and the last is recovering at home. No deaths. Also to state a fact, that in the 6 counties surrounding us, total population of over 85,000 people, and a combined land mass about 2/3 the size of the state of New Jersey, there has been 28 cases total, 19 of which have recovered already, and only 2 hospitalization, no deaths, and only 4 new people test positive in the last 6 days. We are rural, and to apply the same type of rules to people who are as "socially distant" as we are, compared to an urban area, is ludicrous. And for you to call these people the names you came up with and posted is not only unfair, but in my opinion, low and rude. Shame on you. What WE do has NO, none, notta, goose-egg, ziltch, zero bearing on what YOU do where you live. To name call and shame people you don't even know is low class Alan. That's is my take on it.

Again, we are safe and well, and the bar crowd is safe and healthy. As far as the "risk" factor, and the "what if",,, he!!, I could be run over by a rampaging bull moose tomorrow while eating a snow cone.... THAT is how much of a risk I am taking.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 4:41 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
:!: I know that the extra money is needed and that as you have said Mr.Scott you are trying to help out the bar owner, who is having health issues of her own. It is too bad that you are finding yourself in the same spot many Americans are in, they have to choose between working to live and staying healthy to live. People should not have to make that choice. It reminds me of the movie "The Outlaw Josie Whales", when the young bounty hunter says "Have to make a living" and Whales replies "Dying Ain't Much Of A Living".


There is always risk in life,,,, it will NEVER go disappear. It's a part of life. I have said it many times, living in fear is not living.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 4:43 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
:!: I know that the extra money is needed and that as you have said Mr.Scott you are trying to help out the bar owner, who is having health issues of her own. It is too bad that you are finding yourself in the same spot many Americans are in, they have to choose between working to live and staying healthy to live.

The thing is, this is NOT like the flu, which you can get a vaccine for. You can also get some over the counter medicine (ie: Vick's Nyquil)
and in a couple of days it's gone. But since we can't do that with the Corona Virus, the risk is so much greater.

I don't think we're trying to be a Debbie Downer, just caring about the welfare of our fellow karaoke hosts. When I get called back, if precautions are not taken by the bar, such as social distancing, spreading tables apart, etc., I won't be going back. And believe me, nobody wants to go back more than I do. I really miss it, and the money. But we can't go back to the way things used to be before the virus hit. So now, we all have choices to make. I don't mind doing my part as long as the bar does theirs, as well as the customers. If that's not going to happen, then why risk it?


Social distancing in a bar is not going to happen,,, it's the nature of the beast. A bar is a place to be "social", or it will not succeed.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 4:57 pm 
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mrscott wrote:

Social distancing in a bar is not going to happen,,, it's the nature of the beast. A bar is a place to be "social", or it will not succeed.


Especially once the alcohol kicks in. If you are a high risk candidate, a bar is NOT the place to go. This is only for super troopers who are low risk or already immune. Drunk people tend to forget rules and you don't want to be there when they decide everyone needs a hug ;)


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 5:00 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Bob Latshaw wrote:
If you're under 60 with no major health problems, even if you get it, the odds of you dying from Coronavirus are extremely slim. Even the odds of you needing hospitalization are slim. Until a vaccine is made, everyone else who is at risk should stay home and be the ones who need to take extra precautions. However, don't cancel shows under the pretense that you're protecting anyone. Everyone who is out in public is making a declaration just by being out in public. They're saying they take responsibility for themselves. Everyone knows what's out there now and we now know how to be safer and slow the spread. If you assume the vulnerable are staying home (and you should), then all this talk about who you're responsible for is a mute point. Even if a low-risk person takes home the virus from someone at your show and then gives it to a vulnerable person, that's on them. You are not responsible for every single person down the chain. At some point you have to rely on others to do their part.



:!: This is all just a bunch of baloney Bob! The odds are not that slim, especially if you don't follow the guidelines, and social distance, wear a mask, wash your hands a lot, etc.etc.etc. We have the example of Sweden that didn't follow any of the guidelines, but did have the public option for health care, and did do some testing. Of the confirmed infection cases the mortality rate was over 10%. That means over one out of ten died. If we were to use the same approach in the U.S. with a population of over 330 million, with a minimum infection rate of 60 to 70% total of the population, we would be looking at tens of millions of deaths. Would you really want to see something like that happen, knowing you helped it along, by gathering crowds of people together?

P.S. If we carry your thought out to it's logical conclusion Bob, that each individual will be responsible for his actions or lack thereof, still about 80% of the population feels it is unsafe to go out. You will only have 20% or so venturing out the one's willing to take the risk, maybe it will be better for everyone if that group does get thinned out, who knows?


Every area, because of "how" and "who" are tested, the numbers and percentages will vary a lot. In our state, we had a peak of 5.2% of the people tested came back positive, now it's down to 4.2%, and still dropping. Of those tested positive, just slightly over 1% mortality rate. Meaning, even lower mortality rate than the normal strains of influenza. Of all the deaths in Utah (66 total) almost all of them were in nursing homes or long term care facilities, and had previous serious underlying medical conditions. Only 2 of the 66 people died directly from Covid 19. The rest, it only contributed to their passing, it wasn't the main cause. And they might have even died anyway from their current conditions,, nobody is saying. That is the the issue of the honesty and integrity of the reports as a whole. I believe they are putting more blame on the coronavirus than other causes. But I am not in a position to prove or disprove that statement, it's only an opinion. I am not dismissing the severity or the urgency of this pandemic, all I am saying is, in our area it's not as concerning as other more populated areas.


Last edited by mrscott on Sat May 09, 2020 5:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 5:03 pm 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
:!: This is all just a bunch of baloney Bob! The odds are not that slim, especially if you don't follow the guidelines, and social distance, wear a mask, wash your hands a lot, etc.etc.etc.



So let me get this straight. You think the odds of needing hospitalization or risking death go up if you didn't follow the guidelines? Really? The odds don't change at all. If you get it, your odds are the same regardless of what you were doing before you got it or how careless you were.

Did your school principle once have a talk with your mom that started off with the words "Mrs. Gump, your son is going to have to go to a special school...."?

...and yes the odds are very slim. They've already concluded that the virus was here earlier than we thought because most people didn't even need to go to the hospital and didn't raise red flags. When people aren't going to the hospital, they're not getting counted. The hospitalization rate and death rate are far lower than what you see reported. Those are only the recorded cases and does not account for all the people it's already spread through, and that number is way higher. The reason the Johns Hopkins numbers don't show hospitalizations and only show "confirmed cases" and "deaths" is because their numbers come FROM hospitals. It's not like people are calling in and saying "hey I had the symptoms and got over them". They've already concluded some testing in California that showed that far more people already had it than they thought. Why? Nobody is counting the mass amount of people who barely even know they had it, got well, and are now immune.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be careful, but I am saying you are way too paranoid, and ceasing to have a functioning society is insanity considering the relatively low numbers and the data we now have.


Yep, I can add that 100% of the people who have been reported as having died, are in fact actually dead. :rotflmao:


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 5:20 pm 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:


So let me get this straight. You think the odds of needing hospitalization or risking death go up if you didn't follow the guidelines? Really? The odds don't change at all. If you get it, your odds are the same regardless of what you were doing before you got it or how careless you were.

Did your school principle once have a talk with your mom that started off with the words "Mrs. Gump, your son is going to have to go to a special school...."?

...and yes the odds are very slim. They've already concluded that the virus was here earlier than we thought because most people didn't even need to go to the hospital and didn't raise red flags. When people aren't going to the hospital, they're not getting counted. The hospitalization rate and death rate are far lower than what you see reported. Those are only the recorded cases and does not account for all the people it's already spread through, and that number is way higher. The reason the Johns Hopkins numbers don't show hospitalizations and only show "confirmed cases" and "deaths" is because their numbers come FROM hospitals. It's not like people are calling in and saying "hey I had the symptoms and got over them". They've already concluded some testing in California that showed that far more people already had it than they thought. Why? Nobody is counting the mass amount of people who barely even know they had it, got well, and are now immune.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be careful, but I am saying you are way too paranoid, and ceasing to have a functioning society is insanity considering the relatively low numbers and the data we now have.


:?: Really Bob you don't know for sure how many people have been exposed neither do I, since we don't have testing on a scale to make that determination. The only country that is trying to do what we are attempting to do is Sweden. They have the public health option, and testing so they know exactly what their numbers are 23,000 people have been infected, and 2700 have died, that puts the infected ratio for mortality at over 10%. We do not know for sure know what our actual infection rate is,
it could be higher, and our death rate could also be higher, since before the virus was widely known, causes of death were listed as another cause. We currently have 25% of the official infections in the world, and we lead any other country in official deaths due to the virus. To date we have lost more citizens to the virus than died in the Korean War, The Vietnam War, and the civilian death count during the Battle of Britain in 1940.

It has been estimated that 5 to 10% of the population has been infected, and that probably thousands more died that weren't properly counted. We still have a long way to go to achieve herd immunity, which seems to be what you think we already have. The data you are quoting is incomplete and may take months to get right. In the meantime we should not be lax, we could have a functioning society as you call it if we had enough testing, and contact tracing, followed by complete isolation of infected carriers, we have none of this right now. It is not being paranoid to stay home, 80% of those polled feel it is the the smart play. If you get infected are you going to sit home and die, because you took your chance? Should I feel bad because 20% acted rashly, and put themselves and their families at risk? It is one thing to thin the herd, it is another when you are the part of the herd, getting thinned.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 5:24 pm 
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mrscott wrote:

Yep, I can add that 100% of the people who have been reported as having died, are in fact actually dead. :rotflmao:


8) I'll try not to laugh if you end up in the hospital!


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 5:32 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
mrscott wrote:

Yep, I can add that 100% of the people who have been reported as having died, are in fact actually dead. :rotflmao:


8) I'll try not to laugh if you end up in the hospital!


Lone Ranger, you love that word "if", don't you?. Hey, look to the west of you!! There "might" be a giant tsunami on it's way "if" the moon is right!!! JK


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 5:39 pm 
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mrscott wrote:

Every area, because of "how" and "who" are tested, the numbers and percentages will vary a lot. In our state, we had a peak of 5.2% of the people tested came back positive, now it's down to 4.2%, and still dropping. Of those tested positive, just slightly over 1% mortality rate. Meaning, even lower mortality rate than the normal strains of influenza. Of all the deaths in Utah (66 total) almost all of them were in nursing homes or long term care facilities, and had previous serious underlying medical conditions. Only 2 of the 66 people died directly from Covid 19. The rest, it only contributed to their passing, it wasn't the main cause. And they might have even died anyway from their current conditions,, nobody is saying. That is the the issue of the honesty and integrity of the reports as a whole. I believe they are putting more blame on the coronavirus than other causes. But I am not in a position to prove or disprove that statement, it's only an opinion. I am not dismissing the severity or the urgency of this pandemic, all I am saying is, in our area it's not as concerning as other more populated areas.


:? So Mr.Scott if you really believe that this virus is not coming to your community why are you bothering with all of the health safe guards? Just take off your mask and tell the bartender to do the same, stop disinfecting your work station, and don't bother to scan customers when they come in to see if they are running a fever. The facts are eventually when this virus runs it's course 60 to 70% or more of the population will be infected with the virus. The only country that has tried to not close down is Sweden and they have over a 10% mortality rate compared to infections. The only way we can stay ahead of the deluge is by social distancing, testing, and contact tracing. The shutdowns are to buy time so our thin health resources aren't pulled to the breaking point. All the indicators are the virus is on the move and is traveling, it is just a matter of time before it reaches you. Sorry but those are the facts, the only hope is that a vaccine can be found before it lands.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 5:48 pm 
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:!: Like I have stated before time will tell who is right about this. I side with the experts that unless we solve the health care aspects of this pandemic, we will not be able to get the economy going again, since consumers who are needed to make everything work will either one not have any income to spend, or two stay at home to avoid getting infected. We are just three weeks away from June the 1st if the trajectory of the virus does not change, we will be suffering 3,000 deaths a day, more than 100,000 additional deaths, just for the month of June, almost the number of casualties we suffered in WWI. That is in addition to the deaths that have already occurred.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 5:53 pm 
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mrscott wrote:

Lone Ranger, you love that word "if", don't you?. Hey, look to the west of you!! There "might" be a giant tsunami on it's way "if" the moon is right!!! JK



:shock: You are wrong Mr.Scott it is not a tsunami "Auntie M., Auntie M. it's a twister, it's twister, and it's coming down the middle of the heartland of American, unfortunately.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 5:58 pm 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:

Especially once the alcohol kicks in. If you are a high risk candidate, a bar is NOT the place to go. This is only for super troopers who are low risk or already immune. Drunk people tend to forget rules and you don't want to be there when they decide everyone needs a hug ;)



:roll: You have my permission to hug every last drunken one, if that is what you want to do, prove that you are indeed low risk or already immune. Oh that's right you don't know you haven't been tested have you, oh well just roll the dice, just hope they don't come up snake eyes!


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 5:59 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
mrscott wrote:

Every area, because of "how" and "who" are tested, the numbers and percentages will vary a lot. In our state, we had a peak of 5.2% of the people tested came back positive, now it's down to 4.2%, and still dropping. Of those tested positive, just slightly over 1% mortality rate. Meaning, even lower mortality rate than the normal strains of influenza. Of all the deaths in Utah (66 total) almost all of them were in nursing homes or long term care facilities, and had previous serious underlying medical conditions. Only 2 of the 66 people died directly from Covid 19. The rest, it only contributed to their passing, it wasn't the main cause. And they might have even died anyway from their current conditions,, nobody is saying. That is the the issue of the honesty and integrity of the reports as a whole. I believe they are putting more blame on the coronavirus than other causes. But I am not in a position to prove or disprove that statement, it's only an opinion. I am not dismissing the severity or the urgency of this pandemic, all I am saying is, in our area it's not as concerning as other more populated areas.


:? So Mr.Scott if you really believe that this virus is not coming to your community why are you bothering with all of the health safe guards? Just take off your mask and tell the bartender to do the same, stop disinfecting your work station, and don't bother to scan customers when they come in to see if they are running a fever. The facts are eventually when this virus runs it's course 60 to 70% or more of the population will be infected with the virus. The only country that has tried to not close down is Sweden and they have over a 10% mortality rate compared to infections. The only way we can stay ahead of the deluge is by social distancing, testing, and contact tracing. The shutdowns are to buy time so our thin health resources aren't pulled to the breaking point. All the indicators are the virus is on the move and is traveling, it is just a matter of time before it reaches you. Sorry but those are the facts, the only hope is that a vaccine can be found before it lands.


Sweden, Sweden, Sweden,,, you are fixated on Sweden. Our county is not located in Sweden. Honestly? The only reason we are following the health code guidelines, is so we CAN open up. We are simply appeasing the powers to be. We fully do not expect at all, an outright full blown explosion of cases. We ARE taking the typical precautions, and yet still living our day to day lives. I go to work each day, as most do in our county. The kids are staying home from school as ALL schools are closed. The fast food places are flourishing, and the restaurants are floundering. We don't do any unnecessary interactions with others outside our area, and they don't come here much either. I did go to Costco today to shop for my girlfriends work. She is the kitchen manager, and the staff and clients where she works still need to eat. And the local stores do not have what they need to feed that many people, that much food. But we didn't interact with anyone other than the cashier who was behind the Plexiglas window, and we did exercise social distancing. This is the worst possible place for us to be infected. But we still need to do what we need to do in order to get enough food for that many people. Like I said, life goes on.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 6:14 pm 
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"If" I am ever infected,,, here is my plan. I will stay home, locked away in my bedroom (unless I need to be hospitalized, which is highly unlikely), tell everyone else in my household to stay out of my room, post a note on our front door that we are quarantined, and keep all of the 9 people in my house totally away from everyone else until the necessary time passes that we are no longer a threat. Cleaning will be intense and thorough at our house at that time. Isn't that what everybody's "plan" should be?


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 6:15 pm 
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mrscott wrote:

Sweden, Sweden, Sweden,,, you are fixated on Sweden. Our county is not located in Sweden. Honestly? The only reason we are following the health code guidelines, is so we CAN open up. We are simply appeasing the powers to be. We fully do not expect at all, an outright full blown explosion of cases. We ARE taking the typical precautions, and yet still living our day to day lives. I go to work each day, as most do in our county. The kids are staying home from school as ALL schools are closed. The fast food places are flourishing, and the restaurants are floundering. We don't do any unnecessary interactions with others outside our area, and they don't come here much either. I did go to Costco today to shop for my girlfriends work. She is the kitchen manager, and the staff and clients where she works still need to eat. And the local stores do not have what they need to feed that many people, that much food. But we didn't interact with anyone other than the cashier who was behind the Plexiglas window, and we did exercise social distancing. This is the worst possible place for us to be infected. But we still need to do what we need to do in order to get enough food for that many people. Like I said, life goes on.



:!: The reason I cite Sweden is they are the only other country that is has not locked down at all. We are running towards unlocking and only have this one example of how things might go. Sweden does have some advantages we don't, they have widespread testing, and the public health option if a person becomes ill. So I ask again if you really believe this is all sound and fury signifying nothing the why follow any guidelines? Why not just open everything up, if the odds are so small? The reason is you don't know, I don't know what the final outcome of all of this will be. You are hoping for the flu, it could be again the Spanish flu, or anything between the two we just don't know. It is better to err on the side of caution, especially when people's lives are concerned.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 6:18 pm 
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mrscott wrote:
"If" I am ever infected,,, here is my plan. I will stay home, locked away in my bedroom (unless I need to be hospitalized, which is highly unlikely), tell everyone else in my household to stay out of my room, post a note on our front door that we are quarantined, and keep all of the 9 people in my house totally away from everyone else until the necessary time passes that we are no longer a threat. Cleaning will be intense and thorough at our house at that time. Isn't that what everybody's "plan" should be?



:| Let's pray you are right and that you won't have to be hospitalized. Hosting you will be right on the front lines if infections do spike in your community.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 6:23 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:

It is better to err on the side of caution, especially when people's lives are concerned.


That's the point, lives are concerned,, no matter what, no matter when, and no matter how. And yes, it's truly better to be prepared for the worst, hope for the best,,, but still go on living our individual and necessary day to day lives.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 7:12 pm 
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Life goes on, no matter what we do, or how we are prepare, or lack of preparation, life does indeed continue. We cannot change that. We can only adjust to what is given us and move forward.

Just yesterday, the woman that I think of my second "mom", and loved more than almost any person on this planet, was laid to rest. Yes I am heartbroken and very disappointed that I was not able to attend her services. I was able to watch a live feed online of the graveside services though, and I cried and hurt. But even she would tell me that it's ok to grieve, but I must move forward and live life as it was meant to be lived. Not in fear, not letting challenges and trials affect how I want to and need to live. "What if's" are fear, nothing more. To live in our fears and ego is to let the adversary win and to not be master of our own future. I think that is how the good Lord has intended us to live too.

This virus is serious, I will agree to that. I will do the things necessary to protect myself and my family, the very best I know how, sanely and prudently. I think almost all of us would do and are doing the same. But I for one, still need and want to eat. I still have bills to pay, and goals to work towards to provide for my family. I cannot and will not rely on someone else to support me for things that I am capable of doing. I do not have a savings, and my employment has not given me enough security for the future. So I need to do that myself, any way I can.


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