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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 4:02 am 
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bazinga wrote:
In my state they have already tracked down where some people contracted COVID-19, so a million to one is far fetched.



8) If it is such a far fetched idea about legal liability, why is Moscow Mitch McConnell trying to write into the new bailout, language that would make it more difficult to sue owners of small business's and large corporations? In the case of the Federal Government ordering workers back to meat packing plants, it would seem the workers could sue the government, for putting them back in harms way. That is why Tyson pressured the president to use the Defense Procurement Act, so they wouldn't be sued by workers forced back.

Part of the road back to some form of new abnormal besides testing, would require contact tracing. If you can trace the contacts of people back to individuals, where they might have caught the virus, it is not so far fetched to be able to do the same for business's. Especially if it can be shown several customers went to the same business, or participated in the same activity. Even if the customers sign a paper waving their legal right to sue, they still could. This is a new world that many will have to deal with for maybe years to come. As far a karaoke hosting is concerned the risk reward ratio might no longer be there. It would seem to me if the world we have come to know is changed forever, then we better elect people that can deal with the changes.


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 6:08 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:

But they haven't had to prove it in a court of law, and the burden of proof in a court of law is much higher. All contact tracing used to determine contact point is all "best educated guess" at best, and it works great for tracking down general spread, but it wouldn't pass the "beyond a reasonable doubt" test in a specific allegation. Until the day comes where we have video with septillion pixel resolution and we can literally watch a virus jump from one person to another, reasonable doubt will always exist. I challenge you to find a case anywhere where specific virus spread during a pandemic was proven in a court of law in a civil case. You may find it in a criminal case where someone intentionally infected another person, because motive plays a factor in the judgement. However, in a civil liability case, it would only work if you could prove that the virus was only at that specific establishment. During a pandemic, it's anywhere and everywhere, so you have no case. I'm not saying it's completely impossible, but unless you live in a place where the jury could potentially be made up of complete idiots, you've got nothing to worry about. Like I said, it boils down to negligence. The most they can prove is negligence. So, as long as you and the venue employees are following all guidelines and laws, and aren't blatantly licking the microphones or doing anything crazy, I think you're pretty safe.


:? Gee Bob I'm not so sure anybody is pretty safe? If people can sue for being exposed to asbestos years after the fact, Johnson & Johnson talcum powder, and taking Zantec, it would seem they could sue for being exposed to the virus more recently. All that would have to be filed is class action lawsuits against individuals providing services, and large and small companies. Take for example the workers at meat packing plants, the government is ordering them back to work, the government is placing them in harm's way. Tyson pressured the president to issue the order, so they would not be sued themselves for forcing workers back. The workers could choose not to go back, because of the potential health threats. I'm just glad that I no longer work as a Karaoke Host, I feel sorry for those who still need to work. I can sit home and only go out to replenish my stocks of food and drink, my prescriptions can be sent to my house via the mail. I will be 74 in July and a prime target for the virus, so social distancing is a requirement for me.

P.S. One thing to remember Bob is that the bar of proof is much lower in a civil suit seeking damages, than a criminal one requiring jail time.


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 6:48 pm 
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dvdgdry wrote:
I forgot to add, I had it. Got over it at home. Took a lot of Vitamin C, Vit D3, Zinc Picolinate along with quinine (Tonic water) and Selenium Picolinate. All virologists know that 3 things are needed for a strong immune system. Proper nutrition, good water source, and adequate sleep. If any one of those are missing a body is at risk and a weakened immune system is expected.

If you take Zanatac, Pantaprozol, or similar (which is a lot of people), you are probably deficient in Vitamin B and Vitamin D = Compromised Immune System.


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 2:29 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:

:? Gee Bob I'm not so sure anybody is pretty safe? If people can sue for being exposed to asbestos years after the fact, Johnson & Johnson talcum powder, and taking Zantec, it would seem they could sue for being exposed to the virus more recently. All that would have to be filed is class action lawsuits against individuals providing services, and large and small companies. Take for example the workers at meat packing plants, the government is ordering them back to work, the government is placing them in harm's way. Tyson pressured the president to issue the order, so they would not be sued themselves for forcing workers back. The workers could choose not to go back, because of the potential health threats. I'm just glad that I no longer work as a Karaoke Host, I feel sorry for those who still need to work. I can sit home and only go out to replenish my stocks of food and drink, my prescriptions can be sent to my house via the mail. I will be 74 in July and a prime target for the virus, so social distancing is a requirement for me.

P.S. One thing to remember Bob is that the bar of proof is much lower in a civil suit seeking damages, than a criminal one requiring jail time.


Dude, we get it. You're afraid. You're going to chime in on every thread where anyone even remotely displays lack of fear and you feel it's your job to be the voice of reason. Here's the problem. Not everyone can retire like you. People need to earn a living. There's always a chance of getting sued for anything. We all know this. Why the need to keep stating the obvious? Do you honestly think anyone here is saying to themselves "Gee, I had no idea people could sue you for causing them harm. Good thing Lone Ranger was there to tell me this."

You're like the ex-smoker who now wants to come down on all the current smokers. They know there's a danger. They're also not 74, or afraid. Passing your fears on to those who need to work is counterproductive. Especially when your fears are not rational. Not a single KJ or bar has yet to be sued. You don't even know if any will be or even can be. Laws may already protect them in their state. You're speculating. Why? Is it really that lonely being retired?

I saw the Pentagon just released footage of UFOs. Maybe KJs should be afraid of being abducted and stay home for that reason? From where I stand, there's currently more evidence that this will happen than being sued for getting coronavirus, because that hasn't happened yet and there aren't even stories of it happening. There ARE stories of alien abductions though.


Last edited by Bob Latshaw on Sun May 03, 2020 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 4:01 pm 
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:? What's to be afraid of I've lived through the Vietnam War? I have lived my life, if other people are willing to take the risk fine. You don't have to host you have said so yourself. The majority of sane people are concerned about this pandemic with good cause, they have loved one's they don't want to see get sick and die. Maybe everyone should step aside and let the herd thin out, the question is are we willing to pay the price. I don't think people should have to chose between making a living and living period.


P.S. Just one more thing this first wave of the coronavirus has already killed more people than the entire amount of servicemen in the Vietnam War, the war took 19 years this was in just 6 weeks. If you are not concerned then you are underestimating the enemy we face, a dangerous thing to do.


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 9:39 am 
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At this point, if you go out into public you are taking a risk that you might get covid-19. Nobody has an excuse for not knowing this at this point. If you are immunocompromised, or elderly, or you come in contact with those who are, or you are just extremely unwilling to take any risk with your health, you need to take that into account before you go to a bar. That said, the death rate is low for people under the age of 60. In my state, the death rate for those in the 30-39 age range is 0.14%, 40-49 age range is 0.75%, and 50-59 is 1.49%. There are other factors such as obesity that seem to play into this death rate as well. Some people are willing to take that risk and will continue on with their life if given the chance.

Should we be bankrupting bars, restaurants, DJs, KJs, etc... and expect people in the age range of 21-49 to completely avoid all social gatherings for 18+ months over a death rate that is absolutely comparable to the flu, and effected by many other factors such as obesity? "They might give it to grandma." Okay, so maybe if you are actively going to bars you need to be careful when you visit her. At some point the burden needs to be shifted to those who are most at risk. It's unreasonable to expect people to put their entire lives, and in some cases livelihood on hold, indefinitely, until the elderly population is safe being in a bar again. Life is full of risks.


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 11:22 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
:? What's to be afraid of I've lived through the Vietnam War? I have lived my life, if other people are willing to take the risk fine. You don't have to host you have said so yourself. The majority of sane people are concerned about this pandemic with good cause, they have loved one's they don't want to see get sick and die. Maybe everyone should step aside and let the herd thin out, the question is are we willing to pay the price. I don't think people should have to chose between making a living and living period.

P.S. Just one more thing this first wave of the coronavirus has already killed more people than the entire amount of servicemen in the Vietnam War, the war took 19 years this was in just 6 weeks. If you are not concerned then you are underestimating the enemy we face, a dangerous thing to do.


It's far more dangerous to tell people to stay home and starve. Most people can survive Coronavirus, but no one can survive without food. I'm telling people to be safe and work for a living like they want to. I'm telling old and vulnerable folks like yourself to stay home. I'm telling old folks like yourself to stay in your lane and stop making judgement calls for those who are far stronger and far more capable of protecting themselves. I'll keep saying it as long as you keep communicating the contrary. You're weak and scared and we get it, but please keep reminding us that the person who thinks we can survive without food is named "The Lone Ranger". You're alone alright.


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 12:35 pm 
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This is a karaoke forum...we hear on tv...radio.....ect….can we go to a karaoke website and enjoy talking about karaoke.....ssssshhhhhssshhhh


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GK Productions wrote:
This is a karaoke forum...we hear on tv...radio.....ect….can we go to a karaoke website and enjoy talking about karaoke.....ssssshhhhhssshhhh

Nope - already told you this before! It directly affects the industry ie 'karaoke'.
Bypass if you do not like it, no one is forcing you to read it. SIMPLE AS THAT! :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:46 pm 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:

It's far more dangerous to tell people to stay home and starve. Most people can survive Coronavirus, but no one can survive without food. I'm telling people to be safe and work for a living like they want to. I'm telling old and vulnerable folks like yourself to stay home. I'm telling old folks like yourself to stay in your lane and stop making judgement calls for those who are far stronger and far more capable of protecting themselves. I'll keep saying it as long as you keep communicating the contrary. You're weak and scared and we get it, but please keep reminding us that the person who thinks we can survive without food is named "The Lone Ranger". You're alone alright.



:shock: I have never maintained a position that people should suffer, or starve. I think you were the one that said you could make a living computer programming, so there is no need to starve or host karaoke. If karaoke hosting is what you are basing your livelihood on though that is a mighty thin reed. What I have said is that due to the unusual nature of the pandemic the government should be doing more, and if it doesn't, it is the responsibility of the governed me and you, to do something about it. You talk about being strong, I think you are the weak one, since you are basing your decisions on need, and not what you want to do. You are being manipulated by the system to go back to work. Rather than be in a position where you have to do something unsafe to make a living, wouldn't it be better to base you choice, knowing you and your family are taken care of?

This pandemic has shown one thing, if you are rich you can weather any storm, if you are not then you have to do your master's bidding to earn his coin. This pandemic in a way has some good that will come out of it. The rotten aspects of our current economic political system which are broken can be fixed, and life made better for all. Things like UBI, a public option for health care, paid sick leave for all, free child care, food security, and finally fixing Social Security and Medicare, are all within our reach, if we but stretch out our collective hands and say "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore".


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 8:07 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:

:shock: I have never maintained a position that people should suffer, or starve. I think you were the one that said you could make a living computer programming, so there is no need to starve or host karaoke. If karaoke hosting is what you are basing your livelihood on though that is a mighty thin reed. What I have said is that due to the unusual nature of the pandemic the government should be doing more, and if it doesn't, it is the responsibility of the governed me and you, to do something about it. You talk about being strong, I think you are the weak one, since you are basing your decisions on need, and not what you want to do. You are being manipulated by the system to go back to work. Rather than be in a position where you have to do something unsafe to make a living, wouldn't it be better to base you choice, knowing you and your family are taken care of?

This pandemic has shown one thing, if you are rich you can weather any storm, if you are not then you have to do your master's bidding to earn his coin. This pandemic in a way has some good that will come out of it. The rotten aspects of our current economic political system which are broken can be fixed, and life made better for all. Things like UBI, a public option for health care, paid sick leave for all, free child care, food security, and finally fixing Social Security and Medicare, are all within our reach, if we but stretch out our collective hands and say "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore".


You have indeed taken the position that KJs should stop working. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that may be the only income they have now. Yes your idea indeed directly causes 100% of them to suffer. Coronavirus has hit less than a fraction of 1% of people and even when it does hit you (and it will), you have about a 2% chance of dying from it. Even less now that they have that new treatment drug that's working. You've also already established that you are in the vulnerable group and expect the rest of us to protect you and suffer for it.


The Lone Ranger wrote:
You talk about being strong, I think you are the weak one, since you are basing your decisions on need, and not what you want to do.


I want to eat. I need to eat. Call me crazy, but they're both the same for every KJ out there. In what universe does anyone not want what they need?


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 8:30 am 
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Let me interject my own opinion here. And it's simply that, my opinion.

LR really has no say in what we as KJ's need or need not do do. He is no longer part of the business. He has NO stake in the matter, one way or the other. His opinion does not matter, nor should anyone who actually DOES have a vested interest in the success or failure of his/her karaoke/DJ business put any merit into LR's opinion. His viewpoint is based on his own standing as a senior citizen who couldn't care less about anyone else and their lives. I believe it to be a selfish attitude that he thinks everyone else needs to think like him. Which is the farthest thing from what people actually need. Like Spock says, "the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few".


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 10:13 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:

You have indeed taken the position that KJs should stop working. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that may be the only income they have now. Yes your idea indeed directly causes 100% of them to suffer. Coronavirus has hit less than a fraction of 1% of people and even when it does hit you (and it will), you have about a 2% chance of dying from it. Even less now that they have that new treatment drug that's working. You've also already established that you are in the vulnerable group and expect the rest of us to protect you and suffer for it.

:roll: I have taken the position that just like a doctor a karaoke host should first do no harm. Gathering a crowd around at this time is totally irresponsible, considering the health issues involved. If hosting is your only source of income then frankly I don't know what to say about your career choice. If you are working under the table then naturally it would be hard to get anything, since you weren't paying in all this time. If you earned more than 600.00 a year then you should have been declaring it a business, paying your taxes, and paying into your Social Security and Medicare, I did when I ran a karaoke business. I had equipment write offs, mileage etc.etc.etc., paid my taxes and also contributed to my retirement. What I expect is that we realize we are all in this together, and we have to stay together or get picked off one by one.

I want to eat. I need to eat. Call me crazy, but they're both the same for every KJ out there. In what universe does anyone not want what they need?


:shock: What you are telling me is that if you don't work you don't eat, you have nothing paid into the system, and you have no other marketable skills? That is pretty sad, and you are 52 years old. Just how did you survive before the pandemic? When I was working in the karaoke business, I never quit my day job. A lesson I learned from my musician friends, the money earned from entertainment was just extra. When I retired from my day job then I set my hobby up as my business and took it from there. You see planning is everything, without a plan you are lost. Since things are so dire for you then you more than anyone else should be rooting for UBI and government support. Especially if the CDC's model happens and the nation is forced once again to shut down.


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 10:23 am 
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mrscott wrote:
Let me interject my own opinion here. And it's simply that, my opinion.

LR really has no say in what we as KJ's need or need not do do. He is no longer part of the business. He has NO stake in the matter, one way or the other. His opinion does not matter, nor should anyone who actually DOES have a vested interest in the success or failure of his/her karaoke/DJ business put any merit into LR's opinion. His viewpoint is based on his own standing as a senior citizen who couldn't care less about anyone else and their lives. I believe it to be a selfish attitude that he thinks everyone else needs to think like him. Which is the farthest thing from what people actually need. Like Spock says, "the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few".



:? That is where you are wrong Mr.Scott. I care very much about KJ's, I also care about others not part of the business. All of the down and out the so called huddled masses yearning to breathe the air of freedom. We all have a stake in this pandemic, everyone's opinion matters. My viewpoint is based on being a human being first, who cares about the rights and freedoms of all. Since when did being a senior citizen become a dirty word? That is right the needs of 80% of the public that wants a safe healthy environment, does out weigh the needs of the few, who just want to crank it up, and to hell with everyone else.

P.S. Technically 90% or more of the hosts aren't currently in the business anymore, since they are not working now. Should their opinions also be disregarded? Should only working KJ's be allowed to post on the forum?


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 12:27 pm 
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Serious question: For those who depend on karaoke for their livelihood, did you apply for unemployment or a small business loan? I've been trying to figure out a way to get some unemployment for my losses, but I'm a part-timer.

My opinion: Public karaoke in some states is going to be dead for a while. Even if you offer it, are you going to have singers besides the hardcore patrons? With bars having to implement social distancing policies, they may not be able to make enough money to keep up an entertainment budget anyway.


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 3:04 pm 
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8) Give that man a cigar.

Generally speaking you have to pay into Social Security to get unemployment or disability benefits. What I don't know is if you are a person, something like an Uber Driver if you can still get some type of payment?


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 3:23 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
:shock: What you are telling me is that if you don't work you don't eat, you have nothing paid into the system, and you have no other marketable skills? That is pretty sad, and you are 52 years old. Just how did you survive before the pandemic? When I was working in the karaoke business, I never quit my day job. A lesson I learned from my musician friends, the money earned from entertainment was just extra. When I retired from my day job then I set my hobby up as my business and took it from there. You see planning is everything, without a plan you are lost. Since things are so dire for you then you more than anyone else should be rooting for UBI and government support. Especially if the CDC's model happens and the nation is forced once again to shut down.


You only eat if you accept a handout. I prefer to earn my living if possible. Call me crazy, but I have this crazy personality defect called pride. I also have far less fear than you. You're at risk. I'm not. HUGE difference in perspective. You expect me to protect you, and I say protect yourself and let the non-retired folks go back to a far more normal life, that they're used to, and prefer.


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 4:11 pm 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:

You only eat if you accept a handout. I prefer to earn my living if possible. Call me crazy, but I have this crazy personality defect called pride. I also have far less fear than you. You're at risk. I'm not. HUGE difference in perspective. You expect me to protect you, and I say protect yourself and let the non-retired folks go back to a far more normal life, that they're used to, and prefer.



:? What do I have to be afraid of, I know where my next several meals are coming from. I've worked my whole adult life, and earned a living. Sounds more like I need to protect you. There isn't going to be a normal life for a long time Bob, this is Alice Cooper time "Welcome To My Nightmare". We are all in the new abnormal, and it will become more apparent the longer this virus war drags out. I expect everyone to be act as adults, and stop thinking about the way things used to be, it is gone with the wind time.


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 8:54 pm 
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issymayake wrote:
Serious question: For those who depend on karaoke for their livelihood, did you apply for unemployment or a small business loan? I've been trying to figure out a way to get some unemployment for my losses, but I'm a part-timer.

The government stimulus plan was to include self employed 'gig' workers to actually collect unemployment. Check with your states unemployment Covid relief (or whatever they are calling it). It isn't part of the regular application, it's completely separate. However does require that you have filed taxes on what you made - ie be able to show proof of earnings, like 1099's from your gigs otherwise you are SOL.

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 6:24 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Bob Latshaw wrote:

You only eat if you accept a handout. I prefer to earn my living if possible. Call me crazy, but I have this crazy personality defect called pride. I also have far less fear than you. You're at risk. I'm not. HUGE difference in perspective. You expect me to protect you, and I say protect yourself and let the non-retired folks go back to a far more normal life, that they're used to, and prefer.



:? What do I have to be afraid of, I know where my next several meals are coming from. I've worked my whole adult life, and earned a living. Sounds more like I need to protect you. There isn't going to be a normal life for a long time Bob, this is Alice Cooper time "Welcome To My Nightmare". We are all in the new abnormal, and it will become more apparent the longer this virus war drags out. I expect everyone to be act as adults, and stop thinking about the way things used to be, it is gone with the wind time.


Nice attempt at turning this around. You entire argument is that we need to stay put to protect the vulnerable like yourself. Have you changed your mind? If you have nothing to be afraid of, then why do you care if people mingle in public and get this over with sooner rather than later? It's only going to last a long time if everyone is scared like you. Fortunately they're not.


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