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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:41 am 
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I had this one young man, I think about 21 or 22 years old. Super nice kid, but had serious learning disabilities, but you wouldn't know just by a normal conversation, but it was serious. He couldn't sing a lick, at all. He screeched into the mic so loudly, that I actually had to turn off the mic in fear he would clip my speakers and amps. He still had fun tho. So, after I recognized his level of lack of singing ability and his learning issues, I started to make suggestions. First was to back off the mic and instead of yelling everything, just try to go a little over a speaking voice. I still let him pick the songs he wanted to sing and started having one of my other regulars sing with him and "guide" him through the song. It worked like a charm because after about a month or so, this kid was able to make it through a song without getting people to run away. In fact he began to get huge rounds of applause and that made him super happy. That was a great experience. Ya gotta love karaoke!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:07 am 
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mrscott wrote:
I don't believe it's for us to judge as hosts how good or how bad a person can carry a tune.

We don't have to judge. Our customers do it for us.... when you see them frowning or with a painful look on their faces, covering their ears, or running for the door... then that's gotta tell you something.

As I have said, not everyone should sing. If you're too stupid to realize that your singing sucks and that you're turning people off thereby creating a negative experience, then the host should take action.

This is why a lot of people, as well as bar owners, hate karaoke. We need to start setting standards. Nobody wants to listen to a drunk, a screamer, or someone shouting obscenities looking for attention. It is NOT providing a positive fun experience. These people should definitely not be allowed to sing.

Please realize, and this is true and I've seen it happen... People leave and bars lose money because of bad singers. Karaoke is NOT their right.

We need to control the show so that it is pleasing for all, thereby creating a positive experience for everyone.

So, let me say once again...

If you suck at singing, then you shouldn't sing in public. We don't want to hear you and you're really making a fool out of yourself.

If hosts were honest with the bad singers, it would be much appreciated by everyone. Tell them: "hey you're a great guy but singing might not be your thing".

Again, it's not for everyone.

It's no different than anything else. Example: Just because you have a camera, doesn't make you a professional photographer. Meaning, you shouldn't go out and try to shoot someone's wedding day.

So, just because you have a voice doesn't mean you can sing. Not everyone is gifted in that respect.

Advice... watch your customers reactions when a bad singer get's up there. Look at their body language. It can tell you a lot. Bottom line, bad singers should not sing. I have not stopped anyone from singing, unless drunk or stupid, or if you dropped a mic, but I would prefer along with other singers, customers, and bar owners than they don't sing.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:18 am 
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8) With all due respect Alan I think if all hosts adopted your standards, then karaoke shows would not be karaoke shows. Karaoke is meant to be enjoyed by the masses, and not just a procession of flawless performances. If you look to Japan where karaoke started, if you ever see any videos of singers there, they do murder American songs on a regular basis.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:41 am 
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From the words of wisdom: (the local internet haha)

"The classical rule of tolerance is this: Tolerate persons in all circumstances, by according them respect and courtesy even when their ideas are false or silly. Tolerate (i.e., allow) behavior that is moral and consistent with the common good. Finally, tolerate (i.e., embrace and believe) ideas that are sound. This is still a good guideline."


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:49 am 
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Alan B wrote:
mrscott wrote:
I don't believe it's for us to judge as hosts how good or how bad a person can carry a tune.

We don't have to judge. Our customers do it for us.... when you see them frowning or with a painful look on their faces, covering their ears, or running for the door... then that's gotta tell you something.

As I have said, not everyone should sing. If you're too stupid to realize that your singing sucks and that you're turning people off thereby creating a negative experience, then the host should take action.

This is why a lot of people, as well as bar owners, hate karaoke. We need to start setting standards. Nobody wants to listen to a drunk, a screamer, or someone shouting obscenities looking for attention. It is NOT providing a positive fun experience. These people should definitely not be allowed to sing.

Please realize, and this is true and I've seen it happen... People leave and bars lose money because of bad singers. Karaoke is NOT their right.

We need to control the show so that it is pleasing for all, thereby creating a positive experience for everyone.

So, let me say once again...

If you suck at singing, then you shouldn't sing in public. We don't want to hear you and you're really making a fool out of yourself.

If hosts were honest with the bad singers, it would be much appreciated by everyone. Tell them: "hey you're a great guy but singing might not be your thing".

Again, it's not for everyone.

It's no different than anything else. Example: Just because you have a camera, doesn't make you a professional photographer. Meaning, you shouldn't go out and try to shoot someone's wedding day.

So, just because you have a voice doesn't mean you can sing. Not everyone is gifted in that respect.

Advice... watch your customers reactions when a bad singer get's up there. Look at their body language. It can tell you a lot. Bottom line, bad singers should not sing. I have not stopped anyone from singing, unless drunk or stupid, or if you dropped a mic, but I would prefer along with other singers, customers, and bar owners than they don't sing.


Alan, honestly, I think your view is fairly narrow minded. You are categorizing all "bad" singers as one type of person. Which of course they are not. Every single person is different and had different stories to tell and come from different backgrounds and upbringing. I agree that the person who is deliberately screeching and purposely trying to be stupid and annoy the rest of the crowd to never sing. But to tell a person who has simple limitations (read that as non-talented, disabilities, shy etc.) that they aren't allowed to be on stage is wrong. If you always took the worst apple out of a box, eventually you would be left with only one apple, and that one soon would rot.

Tolerance is something that a lot of people forget is important to humanity. The more we become intolerant, the more we lack in our growth as humans


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:31 am 
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I will put a different spin on this...

What about those talented singers that think they are God's gift to music that come to sing but "you" simply can't stand their arrogance? I mean, you can't tolerate them either because of whatever reason.... do you disallow them to sing? C'mon,, someone in the audience is always going to hate/love each of the singers, no matter how they perform. Just because one person doesn't like it (or several for that matter) doesn't mean that the person on stage has less value.

Alan, I admire who you are and what you stand for, and I can honestly say I can appreciate your views (I have benefited from your advice before, we both know that), but in this particular case I think you are wrong.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:55 am 
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mrscott wrote:
Alan, I admire who you are and what you stand for, and I can honestly say I can appreciate your views (I have benefited from your advice before, we both know that), but in this particular case I think you are wrong.

It's OK. It won't be the first time of accused of being wrong. :D

Look, as I have said, Everyone is welcome to sing at my shows. I have never stopped anyone from singing no matter how good or bad you are (with the exceptions of drunk, stupid people).

Where I'm coming from is that having bad singers can be detrimental to a bars health. They can drive away customers causing lost revenue. This effects the bar and potentially effect your job. Some owners may not tolerate this.

This puts karaoke in a bad light. Because when people go out, they want to have a good time. And it's not a good time when you're subjected to bad singers, especially if people are complaining and leaving.

If I was a bar owner, and I had singers who were making it miserable for my patrons, to the point that they were leaving, I would seriously consider stopping karaoke nights.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:49 am 
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Alan B wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
mrmarog wrote:
Alan B wrote:
Not everybody can do every thing. My father once told me... If you can't do it right, don't do it at all. Karaoke should be no exception.

My father and mother only had 8th grade educations, but they both had the same message to me. They also said it another way: "If its worth doing... it's worth doing well"



8) - not American Idol. This being said I do think the patron if they care should try and hone their singing skills. Many karaoke hosts themselves are singing challenged. I know one host that is not very good at singing and never takes himself out of the rotation and always sings in the first slot. This says to me none of us have a true unbiased opinion when it comes to our own singing abilities.

A good karaoke host should be good at what he or she does. That includes having people skills, hosting skills... and... if you're going to sing, you should at least be a good singer. If you don't have any of these qualities, you should not be hosting karaoke.

So, if the host can't sing... he/she should not be part of the rotation, period!

Disagree, a vocally challenged host can use that to his advantage by saying before he sings plenty of slots available, I am living proof that you don't have to be able to sing to get up here, if I can do so can you so ease put me out if your misery and put in some requests so that you don't have to hear me sing all night. Or something to that effect.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:11 am 
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Only people banned from any of my shows have been because of deliberately disrespecting the equipment, period. None having to do with being bad singers. Being a bad singer isn't even an offense in my book.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:44 am 
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Alan B wrote:
If I went to a karaoke bar that was largely made up of bad singers, I would leave and never return again.


Man, I am the *exact* opposite. There are some people who sing so poorly that it turns into a wonderful experience--sometimes, because they are in on the joke (that'd be my category, I'd like to think) and, sometimes, because they're not. My all-time favorite karaoke singer was one of the ones who thought he was really good but... wasn't. By any measure. But, man, it was always a performance. Haven't seen him in over a decade, but we still talk about him and the things he would do.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:54 am 
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mrscott wrote:
Just the same as many or all of you have had,, but at my past shows, I have had professional singers, people who could only sing one song, people who had reading/learning disabilities, children who didn't know how to read yet, people who were terrified of being on stage (yet still did it). Others still that had self esteem issues and were so closed off they only mumbled the words because they were so self conscious. I have had every type of singer imaginable on my stage. And I loved and appreciated each and every one of them, regardless of how "well" they could sing. They chose MY show to attend, and I am and will forever be grateful.


I have "hazed" sales people by having them sing karaoke. One of the biggest fears is public speaking--adding singing on top of that, on a stage, and being able to get through it makes some people feel unstoppable afterwards.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:31 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
Question, which would you rather have, a bar full of bad singers who are buying up the place or great singers who only drink water?
Me I would choose the bad singers because if they're having fun and spending money then as far as I am concerned I am doing my job.


But those aren't the only two options.... A good singer probably brings a table of friends. I had a bunch of great singers with big bar tabs most nights. Lets not forget the people who buy that do not even sing and may well be there to hear the water drinking great singer.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:44 am 
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Alan B wrote:
cueball wrote:
Would you deny someone like this a turn to sing (regardless of how bad he was)?... someone who had no life outside of this???

No, I would not... unless his singing was causing people to leave.


I mentioned in my post that some people in the crowd would leave when they heard him singing. So yes, his (poor/bad) singing did drive some customers away. But as I stated, Karaoke was the highlight of his life.

One night, I was called to fill in for another KJ (because he had double-booked himself that night). I got to the place, and this person I was talking about was there. He was all ready for his night of karaoke. I finished setting up, and I still had 15 minutes before show time. This person handed me his first song selection, and I took it. Before I was ready to start, the Owner came up to me and ordered me to keep him off stage until much later. He pointed out exactly what you (Alan) said... that he was driving away customers with his bad singing. I told the Owner that I could not do that. I even pointed out that this man had showed up over 1 hour early, and even had dinner there. He also was the first person to show up, so there was no way I could justify calling him up to the stage 2 hours later. The Owner said (like you pointed out), that he has a business to run. I pointed out that I had a reputation as a KJ, and if I started to selectively keep someone from singing, word will spread, and then others would not want to attend my shows. I then told the Owner, that if he didn't want this person to sing (or wait to sing when some of the crowd dissipated), then he could approach him and tell him, but I would not. The Owner got mad at me, and then announced that Karaoke was being cancelled for the night. He paid me $100 (half of what I would have gotten if I had done the 4 hour show), and that was the end of it.



Alan B wrote:
A good karaoke host should be good at what he or she does. That includes having people skills, hosting skills... and... if you're going to sing, you should at least be a good singer. If you don't have any of these qualities, you should not be hosting karaoke.

So, if the host can't sing... he/she should not be part of the rotation, period!


I knew a KJ who was a bad singer. He knew he was bad and he used that to his advantage. He would make fun of his own bad singing and tell the audience that they could probably sing better than him, and invite them to give it a try.

My first experience as a Karaoke Singer was very intimidating. I had never tried this before, and I considered my singing abilities to be so-so. I thumbed thru the song book and found a song I thought I could do decently, and as I was about to hand up my request to the Host (I didn't know the term KJ yet), someone was up there singing a song, and sounding like they were cutting the next solid gold hit. I wimped out and went back to my seat. I continued drinking, and worked up the courage again to hand up my request. Someone else was now singing, and she was even better than the guy that I felt intimidated by.... Guess what... I wimped out again. After 7 Alabama Slammers, I started to work up the courage again. This time, one of the Bartenders got up to sing, and he was soooo bad, I practically ran to the Host with my request. I was called up next, and did my song. I was bad... I knew I was bad, but I still got some polite applause from the audience.

My point of this story is to say that sometimes, really bad singers can be an encouragement to those who are shy or afraid to get up and try singing to an audience.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:02 am 
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cueball wrote:
Before I was ready to start, the Owner came up to me and ordered me to keep him off stage until much later. He pointed out exactly what you (Alan) said... that he was driving away customers with his bad singing.

The Owner said (like you pointed out), that he has a business to run. I pointed out that I had a reputation as a KJ, and if I started to selectively keep someone from singing, word will spread, and then others would not want to attend my shows. I then told the Owner, that if he didn't want this person to sing (or wait to sing when some of the crowd dissipated), then he could approach him and tell him, but I would not. The Owner got mad at me, and then announced that Karaoke was being cancelled for the night. He paid me $100 (half of what I would have gotten if I had done the 4 hour show), and that was the end of it.


Look, no matter how much we may like someone, business is business. This singer, regardless of how nice he is, was hurting the owners business. The owner was losing customers and sales because of one person. I agree with the owner's decision 100%. If he allowed that person to sing all night, he probably would have lost a lot more than the $100 he paid you to cancel karaoke.

So again, I say not everyone should be allowed to sing. Remember we work for the bar. Our job is to bring in customers and make the bar money, not drive them away. So, either comply with the bar owners wishes or you'll be looking for another job.

No one wants to listen to a bad singer. No one. It's like scratching your nails on a chalkboard.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:33 am 
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Alan B wrote:
cueball wrote:
Before I was ready to start, the Owner came up to me and ordered me to keep him off stage until much later. He pointed out exactly what you (Alan) said... that he was driving away customers with his bad singing.

The Owner said (like you pointed out), that he has a business to run. I pointed out that I had a reputation as a KJ, and if I started to selectively keep someone from singing, word will spread, and then others would not want to attend my shows. I then told the Owner, that if he didn't want this person to sing (or wait to sing when some of the crowd dissipated), then he could approach him and tell him, but I would not. The Owner got mad at me, and then announced that Karaoke was being cancelled for the night. He paid me $100 (half of what I would have gotten if I had done the 4 hour show), and that was the end of it.


Look, no matter how much we may like someone, business is business. This singer, regardless of how nice he is, was hurting the owners business. The owner was losing customers and sales because of one person. I agree with the owner's decision 100%. If he allowed that person to sing all night, he probably would have lost a lot more than the $100 he paid you to cancel karaoke.

So again, I say not everyone should be allowed to sing. Remember we work for the bar. Our job is to bring in customers and make the bar money, not drive them away. So, either comply with the bar owners wishes or you'll be looking for another job.

No one wants to listen to a bad singer. No one. It's like scratching your nails on a chalkboard.


Herein lies the lack of honesty. If the owner didn't want the guy to sing, then he should have said something to the one customer himself. He may have lost him as a customer, but I think that would have been better than the loss of the rest of the potential customers that night. But the owner over reacted and cancelled karaoke for the entire night. I think he shot himself in the foot because he tarnished his professional reputation by cancelling and not being considerate of the remaining customers and the customers who would have came and stayed had karaoke continued that night. Regardless of how he felt about that one singer, there should have been a compromise, but he just didn't want to consider any alternatives. That is poor management.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:44 am 
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cueball wrote:
I pointed out that I had a reputation as a KJ, and if I started to selectively keep someone from singing, word will spread, and then others would not want to attend my shows.

The only thing that would affect your reputation would be from people saying: "We don't want to go to his show. He's the one with the bad singers".

Listen, I think that before cancelling karaoke, the owner was trying to be fair. He gave you an option, which you refused. You cared more about the one singer who was detrimental to the bar, than everyone else who came out to sing. Wouldn't you rather have 1 disappointed person than 20? So, the night was ruined because of one person.

Again, from a business perspective, the bar owner did the right thing.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:49 am 
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mrscott wrote:
If the owner didn't want the guy to sing, then he should have said something to the one customer himself. He may have lost him as a customer, but I think that would have been better than the loss of the rest of the potential customers that night.

And I'm sure that many of his regular customers were applauding his decision. :D

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:56 am 
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Alan B wrote:
mrscott wrote:
If the owner didn't want the guy to sing, then he should have said something to the one customer himself. He may have lost him as a customer, but I think that would have been better than the loss of the rest of the potential customers that night.

And I'm sure that many of his regular customers were applauding his decision. :D


I am betting that there was no applauding go on at all, since there was nobody there in the end for karaoke.

Like I said,, "poor management decision".


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:01 am 
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Alan B wrote:
cueball wrote:
I pointed out that I had a reputation as a KJ, and if I started to selectively keep someone from singing, word will spread, and then others would not want to attend my shows.

The only thing that would affect your reputation would be from people saying: "We don't want to go to his show. He's the one with the bad singers".

Listen, I think that before cancelling karaoke, the owner was trying to be fair. He gave you an option, which you refused. You cared more about the one singer who was detrimental to the bar, than everyone else who came out to sing. Wouldn't you rather have 1 disappointed person than 20? So, the night was ruined because of one person.

Again, from a business perspective, the bar owner did the right thing.


The owner didn't take into consideration all his options. If management had gone to the one customer from the very beginning and told him that he would be limited on his singing opportunities (and why), that one customer would have the decision himself to either accept those limitations or go elsewhere that night (or subsequent nights also). But the rest of the clientele would have never known any different. Now nobody got the chance to participate in karaoke. Also as customers walked through the door expecting to see karaoke that night and found none, most likely went somewhere else too.... costing the owner money. It was a bad decision in my opinion, and it was on the manager's head for any losses, not the bad singer.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:51 pm 
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mrscott wrote:
Alan B wrote:
cueball wrote:
I pointed out that I had a reputation as a KJ, and if I started to selectively keep someone from singing, word will spread, and then others would not want to attend my shows.

The only thing that would affect your reputation would be from people saying: "We don't want to go to his show. He's the one with the bad singers".

Listen, I think that before cancelling karaoke, the owner was trying to be fair. He gave you an option, which you refused. You cared more about the one singer who was detrimental to the bar, than everyone else who came out to sing. Wouldn't you rather have 1 disappointed person than 20? So, the night was ruined because of one person.

Again, from a business perspective, the bar owner did the right thing.


The owner didn't take into consideration all his options. If management had gone to the one customer from the very beginning and told him that he would be limited on his singing opportunities (and why), that one customer would have the decision himself to either accept those limitations or go elsewhere that night (or subsequent nights also). But the rest of the clientele would have never known any different. Now nobody got the chance to participate in karaoke. Also as customers walked through the door expecting to see karaoke that night and found none, most likely went somewhere else too.... costing the owner money. It was a bad decision in my opinion, and it was on the manager's head for any losses, not the bad singer.


I can understand your reasoning and you bring up some valid points.

Some will argue that the karaoke host should have told the singer since he's the one running the show while others may feel that it's the bar owners responsibility. In any case, sales were lost that night.

If it were me... I wouldn't want to lose out on a $200 night. And I wouldn't want to lose my job. And I wouldn't want to deny all of the people who came out to sing from singing all because of one person.

Here's what I would do... I would do as the owner instructed and inform the bad singer that I'm just doing what I'm told and if you have any questions, please speak to the owner. This way, you did as instructed and now put the ball back in his court. And he'd have to deal with the bad singer.

But regardless of this one example, the point I have been trying to make is that a really bad singer can hurt the bar and drive customers away and keep them from coming back thus causing lost revenue. This is a fact.

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