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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:55 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
and this is what i have been saying.
nobody but hosts care, singers only care that we have their song, it sounds good, and they have fun.
i'm not trying to attack you at all NoShame, your post just kind of opened the door and helped reinforce what i have been saying is the ACTUAL problem.
When you get on a commercial airliner, are you concerned that the fuel used was provided by the lowest bidder? Nope. As long as it's good enough to fly with and there's enough to get you to your destination on time, you don't really think about it and you shouldn't have to worry about it.

It's the same with singers. They don't care who made the song or even how you acquired it or when or how much you paid for it -- they don't concern themselves with that. Their only interest is that you have the song they want to sing and that's as far as it goes.

So I'd agree with you 100% - it's only a problem when you're the person providing the songs.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:44 am 
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c. staley wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
and this is what i have been saying.
nobody but hosts care, singers only care that we have their song, it sounds good, and they have fun.
i'm not trying to attack you at all NoShame, your post just kind of opened the door and helped reinforce what i have been saying is the ACTUAL problem.
When you get on a commercial airliner, are you concerned that the fuel used was provided by the lowest bidder? Nope. As long as it's good enough to fly with and there's enough to get you to your destination on time, you don't really think about it and you shouldn't have to worry about it.

It's the same with singers. They don't care who made the song or even how you acquired it or when or how much you paid for it -- they don't concern themselves with that. Their only interest is that you have the song they want to sing and that's as far as it goes.

So I'd agree with you 100% - it's only a problem when you're the person providing the songs.


Chip, I suspect you know, the KJ has "No Standing" in court (or anywhere else) to ask the supplier if the product is or is not legal.

So KJ buys a CD+G disc, he must assume it's a properly licensed product.
Same with a download.

Apple (and others) allow streaming, and as a customer, I also must assume the product is legal. But, I really don't know, and if I ask, zero response.

I'm not sayin' the system is broken, but the system is broken..


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:11 pm 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
NoShameKaraoke wrote:
But I also didn't care if a show was a pirate show or a legit show, as long as the atmosphere was good, things sounded ok, and I was having a good time.

and this is what i have been saying.
nobody but hosts care, singers only care that we have their song, it sounds good, and they have fun.
i'm not trying to attack you at all NoShame, your post just kind of opened the door and helped reinforce what i have been saying is the ACTUAL problem.
And since the fact that most of the companies have upped their quality considerably, really pushes 'brand' reliability aside.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:18 pm 
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jdmeister wrote:
Chip, I suspect you know, the KJ has "No Standing" in court (or anywhere else) to ask the supplier if the product is or is not legal.

So KJ buys a CD+G disc, he must assume it's a properly licensed product.
Same with a download.

Apple (and others) allow streaming, and as a customer, I also must assume the product is legal. But, I really don't know, and if I ask, zero response.
True. The KJ has no "legal standing" to compel licensing status from any supplier....

That being said, it also doesn't absolve KJ's from infringement if they've been either:

(A) specifically prohibited by a supplier from using that content for commercial purposes -- because the supplier doesn't have the ability to grant that right (no licensing) or,

(B) been notified by the supplier that the KJ must acquire the necessary permission(s)/licensing to have the tracks to use for commercial purposes.

I think that far too many KJ's have the idea that it doesn't matter where you get a track because as long as you play it in a club that pays PRO fees, you must be safe and nothing could be further from the truth.

jdmeister wrote:
I'm not sayin' the system is broken, but the system is broken..
It is what it is. Unfortunately, KJ's don't have a say in how it can be fixed.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:28 am 
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c. staley wrote:
jdmeister wrote:
Chip, I suspect you know, the KJ has "No Standing" in court (or anywhere else) to ask the supplier if the product is or is not legal.

So KJ buys a CD+G disc, he must assume it's a properly licensed product.
Same with a download.

Apple (and others) allow streaming, and as a customer, I also must assume the product is legal. But, I really don't know, and if I ask, zero response.
True. The KJ has no "legal standing" to compel licensing status from any supplier....

That being said, it also doesn't absolve KJ's from infringement if they've been either:

(A) specifically prohibited by a supplier from using that content for commercial purposes -- because the supplier doesn't have the ability to grant that right (no licensing) or,

(B) been notified by the supplier that the KJ must acquire the necessary permission(s)/licensing to have the tracks to use for commercial purposes.

(C) I think that far too many KJ's have the idea that it doesn't matter where you get a track because as long as you play it in a club that pays PRO fees, you must be safe and nothing could be further from the truth.

jdmeister wrote:
I'm not sayin' the system is broken, but the system is broken..
It is what it is. Unfortunately, KJ's don't have a say in how it can be fixed.


Not to beat that poor dead horse, but...

I suspect both (A) and (B) are nothing to worry about.
The supplier can not grant permission, (A) as that function belongs elsewhere.
And (B) it's okay to notify the buyer, but this just absolves the seller.

True, (I added (C) for clarity ) most illegal KJs can be sued, and IF they are may face civil penalties, BUT, not likely, as the "Follow the money" axiom applies.
PRO fee collection agencies (Et All) are too busy collecting PRO fees and lining greedy pockets to fall for that.
The sad news is, actual creaters almost never collect what is owed them, as the funds are often spit after the expenses are deducted. It's called "Creative Accounting".

Like the man once said, "Who watches the watchers?"


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:37 am 
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jdmeister wrote:
I suspect both (A) and (B) are nothing to worry about.
The supplier can not grant permission, (A) as that function belongs elsewhere.
Yes, it belongs with the owner of all the copyrights that don't relate to performance copyright.
jdmeister wrote:
And (B) it's okay to notify the buyer, but this just absolves the seller.
... and puts the liability for copyright infringement (not relating to performance) squarely on the buyer. (the KJ) but possibly not entirely. It's like me making a deal with you: "I'll give you at least $10,000 from robbing that bank but if I get caught, you agree to take the prison time in my place." That doesn't absolve me from committing any crime (robbing the bank) and it doesn't protect you from the crime of conspiracy even if your alibi is that you were in the Bahamas sipping on a pina colada at the time of the robbery. The written contract between you and me is not legal and/or enforceable but it is evidence of the conspiracy.

jdmeister wrote:
True, (I added (C) for clarity ) most illegal KJs can be sued, and IF they are may face civil penalties, BUT, not likely, as the "Follow the money" axiom applies.
PRO fee collection agencies (Et All) are too busy collecting PRO fees and lining greedy pockets to fall for that.
The sad news is, actual creators almost never collect what is owed them, as the funds are often split after the expenses are deducted. It's called "Creative Accounting".

Like the man once said, "Who watches the watchers?"
And that's why the "little guy" stays the little guy.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:08 pm 
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Because one other singer agrees that "they do not care" means no singers care? That's kind of a narcissistic statement. Not everyone thinks exactly as you do. Common sense tells us that there are a large percentage of those who do not care. It's the ones that do care that I am referring too. Many bar owners frequent my shows as well. Some that I work for also frequent my other shows. Do you not think they care? Also, did you know that PEP only own the copyright to about twenty songs? The rest were made without the permission of the producers. But I'm guessing your OK with that as well. Who cares if the producers, songwriters and artists never received their cut. Anyone technically could be sued by a producer for playing a SC track. It is unlikely, but possible. I stay away and can have a clear conscious in the process.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:52 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
and this is what i have been saying.
nobody but hosts care, singers only care that we have their song, it sounds good, and they have fun.
i'm not trying to attack you at all NoShame, your post just kind of opened the door and helped reinforce what i have been saying is the ACTUAL problem.


No attack felt at all, PK. Seriously, without this forum, I wouldn't have even had an idea that karaoke piracy was a thing.


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