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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:40 pm 
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8) You paint a very bleak picture Paradigm, seems like the posts in AZ anyway are cutting their own throats. That is a shame, I guess I should be grateful to be in California. This Tale of Two Karaoke Hosts, seems also to be a tale of two different states, or at least areas. I can see light at the end of my tunnel, hopefully there is some sunshine for you as well. :beermates: :biggrinthumb:

P.S. Oh by the way it is totally different at our local American Legion anyway. It is the older BB crowd that has been made to feel unwelcome in the last two years, and has hurt the bottom line of our post. Funny how things can be totally opposite, what a difference a state makes.


Last edited by The Lone Ranger on Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:23 am 
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such a short distance but huge difference. just like libraries, never know what is happening.
question though,
if your posts are pushing out the younger crowds for the BB, what will they do when the BB die off?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:16 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
such a short distance but huge difference. just like libraries, never know what is happening.
question though,
if your posts are pushing out the younger crowds for the BB, what will they do when the BB die off?



8) When you think about it Paradigm it is sort of stupid at any point to push out either crowd. The problem is the groups are so different it is hard to combine them into one unit. You would think that young or old they should be united in wanting to provide service to the community, that isn't happening. The last time this country came together was the generation that lived through the Great Depression and then fought WWII. That feeling of community lasted until the 1960's then things started to unravel. Today we are so divided I have to think it is on purpose, so that the elite who control the power and wealth of this country can exploit the rest of us. The BB's are for the most part are a bridge to get the Legion over the chasm, of no eligible veterans for the next 15 years. They fill the gap rather well since like I have said before there will be 10,000 a day retiring for the next 15 years. I hate to say it but at my advanced age if I last another 15 years it would indeed be a blessing from God. After I go I don't think what happens here is going to matter much to me. I just have to wait and see if anything happens after death, a big mystery finally solved, I just won't be around to tell how it plays out.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:38 am 
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8) Well I went to the show on Saturday night and guess what it was the deadest I have ever seen the place. It was like that all day and when the night's show started it bubbled for about 45 minutes and then went into a nose dive. I was told by the finance officer earlier in the week there were some day's we only made $8.00 total. You can't even keep the lights on for that, and we have solar panels on the roof. The cowboy made the calls, the singers said they would come and didn't show up, in a way I felt bad for him, I know what it is like to play to a small crowd, usually that happens when you first start out. In his case he has been at the venue for over a year. All I can do is wait a day and see what happens on Monday. One thing for sure is one day a week is not going to work. I will get the numbers on the take of Saturday on Monday and see how bad it really was. I know we didn't hit either target as far as crowd or total gross bar. I'm still going to let cowboy work the next four weeks and then go to the calendar meeting, with the facts and figures.

It is becoming quite plain to me that the post has damaged it's image with it's customer base over the last two years, and it will be an uphill battle to get those patrons back in. There are plans on the table to merge the post with another, this might be the only long term solution to the problem. The combined posts would have over 1,000 members and would have the resources to eventually build a brand new post for all.


Last edited by The Lone Ranger on Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:54 am 
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Good conversation, Gentleman! Just so everyone knows what we are talking about, these are The American Legion's Eligibility Dates from the back of my card -

WWI: 1917 - 1918
WWII: 1941-1946
Korea: 1950 -1955
Vietnam: 1961-1975
Lebanon/Grenada: 1982 -1984
Panama: 1989 -1990
Gulf/War on Terrorism: 1990 - Present

Veteran's who served during those time periods, and were Honorably discharged, can join The American Legion, and have full voting rights. Veteran's outside those dates, or Relatives of a Veteran, can join with a Aux or Son's membership, but have no voting rights. In reality, this means that even in very large Posts, the decisions, for good or for bad, are being made by a very small group of Vets.

The "hole" from 1975 to 1982, when we were at Peace, is an especially big problem due to the rapidly changing demographic of the WWII, Korean, and Vietnam Vets, due to age and to Agent Orange. Over 2/3rds of Vietnam Vets who were boots on the ground have already died.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:36 pm 
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interresting thought....
vets in general as i know them and see at the posts, are elitist.
here is what i mean...
i did not serve, so in the eyes of so many vets, i am inferior.
in the eyes of the WWII, Korea, Veitnam vets, the younger vets are not up to snuff.
in the eyes of the gulf war vets, the older vets could not have handled what they have to today.
one controls the posts and doesn't deem the others worthy, while the youngers can't get a foothold with the lifetime members controlling the post so they go to regular bars where they can control more people.

i don't know, just a thought, but i agree on the desire to keep us at each others throats.
the question becomes, how do we do what we do (karaoke brings people together) against this and not kick the can down the road?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:28 pm 
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Hanginon wrote:
Vietnam Vets, due to age and to Agent Orange. Over 2/3rds of Vietnam Vets who were boots on the ground have already died.

A sad & depressing reality, but I’m not looking forward to joining the ranks of the 2/3rds of Vietnam vets who have already died. Hopefully not any time soon.

I did 3 tours of duty in ‘Nam, survived the jungles, agent Orange & onboard ships’ asbestos exposures. 22 yrs of active service, then karaoke right after retirement. Still kicking around, healthy enough to host karaoke 2 nights wk. My gig/rig is stationary, permanent installation. I love this job!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:43 pm 
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Hanginon wrote:
Me? Nam 1969. Came home and was welcomed by no one, including the American Legion.

Don't kick the can down the road, and keep the Claymore's facing away!

and avoid bouncing betty’s and punji sticks. Welcome Home, Brother!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:42 am 
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Hanginon wrote:
Good conversation, Gentleman! Just so everyone knows what we are talking about, these are The American Legion's Eligibility Dates from the back of my card -

WWI: 1917 - 1918
WWII: 1941-1946
Korea: 1950 -1955
Vietnam: 1961-1975
Lebanon/Grenada: 1982 -1984
Panama: 1989 -1990
Gulf/War on Terrorism: 1990 - Present

Veteran's who served during those time periods, and were Honorably discharged, can join The American Legion, and have full voting rights. Veteran's outside those dates, or Relatives of a Veteran, can join with a Aux or Son's membership, but have no voting rights. In reality, this means that even in very large Posts, the decisions, for good or for bad, are being made by a very small group of Vets.

The "hole" from 1975 to 1982, when we were at Peace, is an especially big problem due to the rapidly changing demographic of the WWII, Korean, and Vietnam Vets, due to age and to Agent Orange. Over 2/3rds of Vietnam Vets who were boots on the ground have already died.



8) From the numbers I'm seeing there were 2,709,918 Americans who served in Vietnam. On 11-1-2009 there was less than 850,000 still alive. Another figure I have seen states that in 2013 there were 7,000,000 Vietnam era Veterans alive and they cite that 390 a day are dying. That would mean about 141,960 are dying a year. Of course this daily rate will get higher as the Vietnam era Veterans age. If we allow for this 390 figure holding constant then there are about 6.4 million Vietnam era Veterans still alive. Except for that two year period Lebanon/Grenada, there is a big hole between 1975 and 1989, of about 12 years total. That is the gap that needs to be filled if the posts are to survive.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:59 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
interresting thought....
vets in general as i know them and see at the posts, are elitist.
here is what i mean...
i did not serve, so in the eyes of so many vets, i am inferior.
in the eyes of the WWII, Korea, Veitnam vets, the younger vets are not up to snuff.
in the eyes of the gulf war vets, the older vets could not have handled what they have to today.
one controls the posts and doesn't deem the others worthy, while the youngers can't get a foothold with the lifetime members controlling the post so they go to regular bars where they can control more people.

i don't know, just a thought, but i agree on the desire to keep us at each others throats.
the question becomes, how do we do what we do (karaoke brings people together) against this and not kick the can down the road?


8) You are right Paradigm it is a lot easier to play for Veterans organizations if you are a Vet fortunately I am. It is not so much about being elite as it is sharing a common bond with someone. It is not that you are inferior, just different. You have to remember that people change, those old crabby Veterans were once young strong men. It is hard for anyone to deal with aging and whether we are male or female we all have a certain amount of vanity. We like to think there were some good old days, which is a bunch of baloney, if the truth be told these are the good old days. For most retired people you have raised your kids and done your job, earned your money and now it is time to have some fun, provided you are healthy enough. It is a hard job bringing people together, just look at our government.


Last edited by The Lone Ranger on Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:05 am 
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Brian A wrote:
Hanginon wrote:
Vietnam Vets, due to age and to Agent Orange. Over 2/3rds of Vietnam Vets who were boots on the ground have already died.

A sad & depressing reality, but I’m not looking forward to joining the ranks of the 2/3rds of Vietnam vets who have already died. Hopefully not any time soon.

I did 3 tours of duty in ‘Nam, survived the jungles, agent Orange & onboard ships’ asbestos exposures. 22 yrs of active service, then karaoke right after retirement. Still kicking around, healthy enough to host karaoke 2 nights wk. My gig/rig is stationary, permanent installation. I love this job!


8) Thank you for your many years of service Brian.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:47 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
8) Thank you for your many years of service Brian.

and thank you for your military service as well, LoneR.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:49 pm 
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I joined just after Korea, and discharged just before Nam.
However, I did participate in that "Expeditionary Force" to TJ down in Baja.
We were determined to fund unwed mothers and assist in the economic recovery in this depressed "second world" arena. :roll:

And, I was able to do some "Stand Up" at the American Legion..
We did have some singers too.
I was a "Last Minute" add, and since I didn't have a suitable picture,
I used a clip from Murray Langston, "The Unknown Comic".


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:48 am 
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8) Thanks for your service JD. :beermates:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:58 am 
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8) Well I hit a bump in the road Monday was better than Saturday but I'm still wondering if it is going to be good enough to turn things around. One good day a week is not going to save this post. The merger seems to be the only long term solution to saving both posts. The problem is once again post politics, there are members that would rather go down with the ship than to merge, which I don't understand at all. Then again I have always been pragmatic, not emotional when it comes to business. Wednesday I will check out the numbers with the Finance officer and see where we stand.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:27 am 
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[quote="Hanginon"]

Me? Nam 1969. Came home and was welcomed by no one, including the American Legion, but it didn't matter, they were rolling in the money with WWII and Korean Vets.

8) Sorry I didn't thank you for your service, welcome home. :beermates:


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:03 am 
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8) Well it looks like we might actually make a profit this month. One month does not cure, however, the long term problems of this post and a merger is the answer for the long term financial health to the two Legion posts in this area. We have just mailed out the notices of the proposed merger. The next general membership meeting will answer any questions and I'm anticipating a real battle then. This merger was supposed to be years down the road, but the officer's at both posts realize they don't have years to work this out. The matter needs to be voted on this year, and if everything goes well we should be merged with the other post by January of next year. That is only a little over 100 days away.

It would seem that when you look at the math that the choice should be a no problem, but some will oppose this merger for their own reasons. It is kind of an emotional thing and there are groups at both posts that will oppose this unification, one post is very conservative and the other is more Wild West. I just hope reason overcomes emotion. The mission of the post is to provide Veterans a place to meet and to work on matters that effect the community as a whole. If both posts close then two towns will be without any service. The VFW here had to merge years ago to stay open, and there may come the day that the American Legion and the VFW will both have to merge to stay open.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:12 am 
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It's happening everywhere.. Here in my little corner of Canada, our town's Legion is on it's last legs. For example, it's cut entertainment completely, and opens from 2:00 until 6:00 daily... including Fridays, and 11:00 pm Saturday.

The closest city recently merged their two Legion branches, but their financial position isn't much better than before.

On the other hand, the two service clubs where I play... Thursdays in my town, and Saturdays in the aforementioned city... are doing gangbusters. And I have to believe it's all a matter of attitude.

For instance, I offered to host karaoke at the Legion here, and was turned down flat... A week later I approached a local service club. They jumped at the idea, and I've been hosting there going on 13 years. I don't think we've ever had less than 30+ singers.

Same thing with both Legion branches in Chatham (small city 20 miles away). They both turned down the offer, but the Moose Lodge welcomed with open arms... and we've been hosting there for just over 8 years. With a current "record" of 71 singers, believe it or not.

I had been a proud Legion member for more than 30 years, having joined while in the Royal Canadian Navy... and held executive positions in two different branches, but I dropped my membership just two years after moving to this town... It wouldn't surprise me to see a "For Sale" sign in front of the local branch in the near future... and all because of stubborn attitude and "elderly" thinking.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:43 am 
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8) Thank you for your service Earl, Canada is one of our oldest and closest allies. The Canadian Snow Birds come every year to the post, they should be back soon.:beermates:


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:17 am 
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8) Well I learned yesterday that the cowboy would be playing is last show tonight. He quit I guess the pressure to produce was just too much for him. I feel that I gave him every chance to turn things around, it must be very hard for him professionally. He used to make 250.00 a night before his main venue burned down. He used to have a packed house there, at the end for our venue on a good night he might have 10 singers. Actually the bar totals were starting to go up and he was averaging the goal I set of 500.00 gross receipts. He got a job at the VFW but if he thinks it will be easier there he is mistaken. The commander there is a hard man to deal with. Now I have to find another host which should not be to difficult. I have already three that have called me, and I imagine there will be more once the word gets out. I have a week to decide or more if I fill in until I can find the right person for the job.


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