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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:46 am 
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8) Since I retired I have become more involved with local non profits that I belong to as a member. I was recently elected 2nd Vice Commander of the American Legion's locale post. This particular post obtained a large windfall of cash a couple of years ago. Former officers have managed to spend most of the cash on badly needed repairs to our post and paying off the mortgage on our property. 2nd Vice Commander is in charge of hiring the entertainment for our events, there hadn't been an active officer at this job for some time. Actually the head bartender had taken over these duties, and the budget of entertainment was way out of line. She was hiring bands that were way too loud and driving away our customer base. Not only this but the bands were too expensive and they were the main reason for falling revenues.

I was brought in to clean up Dodge and I started doing it. First I let go of the bands and started getting back to our core business dinner with karaoke. This head bartender had a friend a cowboy KJ who had worked at the locale big karaoke show in town, before the venue caught fire and burned down about a year ago. He was good and for the most part dependable, but he wasn't the right fit for our venue. He was bringing in a very young crowd that wanted to put a two dollar soda on a credit card, in other words they had no cash to spend. Our target market has always been baby boomers. He was given Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and Monday to play. In the course of the last year both Wednesday and Friday were eliminated since they became money losers. When I was elected only Monday and Saturday were left. I gave this host two more months to make good, during that time his Saturdays improved and his Mondays were awful.

I know most of the locale talent something former officers of the post had no knowledge of. In August the post lost 1500.00 at that rate we could only keep the doors open another 2 or 3 years. I decided to change KJ's on Monday night and brought in a host that has a great track record for bringing in a crowd. The crowd that we needed and wanted "Baby Boomers". Last night was the first night and it was a huge success. Most members saw that I had made the right call, and yet this head bartender and her boyfriend, who were both drunk at the bar starting cussing me out and saying I wasn't showing her respect, by canning her friend the former Monday KJ. I didn't fire the cowboy totally he is still doing Saturday, I feel I made the right call, we had been paying this host for almost a year and he wasn't delivering the crowds. I guess it's the old story others get upset if you show them up, but I feel I did my job and worked for the good of the post.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:31 am 
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and yet this head bartender and her boyfriend, who were both drunk at the bar starting cussing me out and saying I wasn't showing her respect, by canning her friend the former Monday KJ.

Next to go is the drunk bartender.. Hire people that actually want to do the job..


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:31 pm 
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8) She wasn't on duty at the time, since it was Labor Day and she and her boyfriend had the day off. So the being drunk wasn't the problem. They were on purpose trying to disrupt the show and make a general uncomfortable atmosphere to drive patrons away. I guess she felt threatened because I was able to do what she had been unable to do, have a money making night. I just talked with the finance officer this morning and we made a good profit, the new host had 34 singers on the list, of course I phoned him and told him the good news, and thanked him for his hard work. The strange thing about all of this if the bar makes a profit, the head bartender gets a percentage of the proceeds. It really is dumb to work against your own self interests, but that is exactly what she is doing, go figure?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:49 pm 
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Call me crazy, but I never felt The American Legion was a "hot spot" for younger people. This isn't to say they don't have parties or functions, but usually its geared towards the baby boomers (and the aging Gen X'ers in the not too distant future.)

Sounded like the bartender was trying to make the place something it's not. I'm wondering if the KJ was trying to do that to some extent as well, with bumper music for younger crowds, or playing favorites with them, etc. That could be enough to chase the older patrons away...

On your end, it takes a lot to go against the grain, and step on a few toes. Lots of owners and operators take the path of least resistance, specially when it isn't there money they are playing with. Looks like you made the right call.

Glad your new KJ fits the bill better. Best of luck


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:02 pm 
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Still she was trying to find a way to make your decision a bad one. As an officer you have the power to go to your superior officer and tell him or her how they were trying to make things difficult for you and that they need to be informed that you are the one whose duties include hiring and firing the entertainment and they either respect that or find another job. Even if they weren't working, people know that they are employed at the post and are still representing the post whether or not they are working or just there to enjoy a good beer or two. It's one of the reasons that I choose not to hang out on my off times at places where I have gigs at. I start a new gig on Friday night and I also play there on Saturday night as well. Other than those two nights, unless I am doing something to improve the efficiency of setting up and tearing down, I won't be going there on my days off. Go with the situation for a month, then take a look at the till numbers of both nights. If you are gaining money on Monday and losing money on the other night, I would see if the person who is doing Monday night is available for the other night and can the host of the other night. It's nothing personal but it is a sound business decision. You as an officer have to look out for the best interests of the post and you said it yourself that the other host isn't drawing in the target audience that you are after and the Monday night host is.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:53 pm 
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8) That's the rub Danny this particular host is working 6 days a week, and I was lucky to get him for Monday's, but I have known him for years and he did me this favor. The only other person I know of that could do the job on Saturday is me but I'm retired and it would be a conflict of interest for me to do the gig. There are very few hosts that I trust since most of my generation have retired, I was one of the last to hang up my speakers. The good hosts are always in demand and the hacks are just hacks.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:45 pm 
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Is the post doing better on the nights that you don't have karaoke than Saturday night? If so just can the Saturday show altogether. Again you need to look at what is the best scenario for doing what is right for the post. I quit a gig before I really started it a couple of weeks ago because I had this feeling that I wasn't going to fit well during a period where I had to play filler music because of no singers. I took a look at the other flyers and noticed that they were modern hip-hop and old school rap oriented. In my DJ music I have almost zero modern hip-hop or old school rap and I actually like it that way. Don't get me wrong, in a regular bar that is looking for the younger crowd and has an anything goes policy, I will gladly put one of those songs into their que but I really don't like to listen to it. For the most part lately I have pretty much been hired in a family friendly venues. Where I am not allowed to play songs with the f word or a racial slur.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:55 pm 
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where are you Lone?
i do VFW and Legions and get the opposite problems, they can't get younger crowds in and the older crowds have limited budgets and don't spend plus go home early. the younger crowds buy the top price cocktails and stay all night.
interresting how it works differently in different places. good that you got it sorted out for your post, though the bartender fighting you could be cause for concern.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:55 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
where are you Lone?
i do VFW and Legions and get the opposite problems, they can't get younger crowds in and the older crowds have limited budgets and don't spend plus go home early. the younger crowds buy the top price cocktails and stay all night.
interresting how it works differently in different places. good that you got it sorted out for your post, though the bartender fighting you could be cause for concern.


8) I guess it doesn't hurt to say where I'm located since I'm not active in the industry anymore. I live in Hemet California now and have for the last 8 years. It is a heavy retirement community not many young families or young people for that matter. The population has doubled in the last years and the town is nearly 100,000 more if you add San Jacinto the nearby other town. During the week most karaoke gigs are 5 to 9 since people don't stay out late. Ideal for hosts that want to be in bed at a reasonable time. Most of the Mill's or young people that are here are either unemployed or work in service related jobs. The one's with money don't want to hang out at the VFW or Legion, they want to go to "The Office, or "Shooter's".

Baby Boomer's are a perfect fit since there are 10,000 a day retiring for the next 15 years, and currently there is a 15 year period where their were no wars so no veterans can join either the VFW or Legion unless Congress changes the rules so we can accept all honorably discharged VETS. This head bartender as also managed to have herself hired as the bar manager, the trouble is all of the power has gone to her head, and this last outburst at the bar in front of many witnesses has forced the Commander of the Post to call her on the carpet. Right now it looks like I have the upper hand since I'm making money for the Post, so I have to hope my luck holds out.

P.S. If you want to attract baby boomers Paradigm you have to appeal to what they want. First of all you have to have a safe welcoming environment. They are turned off to loud music and don't like rap, they feel more comfortable with people like themselves not youngsters cutting up to impress each other. You have to remember this is the generation that watched "Leave It To Beaver", "The Nelsons", "The Rifleman", "Superman", and yes can I say it "The Lone Ranger". Then you have to have what I call "The Big Three", Cheap Food, Good Entertainment, and a Bar, where the real money is made.

I hit upon an idea many years ago and it works to this day. Combining tacos and karaoke and having it the same bat time on the same bat channel every week. Keep the tacos at a buck apiece even if you only break even on them, give the basic shell and meat either chicken or beef, and also set up a buffet add on table, tomatoes, hot sauce, lettuce, cheese, sour cream, etc. etc. They sort of build their own tacos. Run some type of drink specials, and have the karaoke for entertainment, make sure you have an good size dance floor since Baby Boomers like my wife take line dancing classes and love to dance. The way this works is the food brings them in, the karaoke keeps them there and they spend money at the bar. Try this and you might get the Baby Boomers to come out, also keep it early in the evening 5 to 9. I can modestly say that this formula has worked every time and has never failed me, I have been out of the business for sometime now and the non-profits that I set up this program in, still use it today. Now in Hemet there are taco/karaoke nights at least 4 times a week.


Last edited by The Lone Ranger on Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:30 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
Is the post doing better on the nights that you don't have karaoke than Saturday night? If so just can the Saturday show altogether. Again you need to look at what is the best scenario for doing what is right for the post. I quit a gig before I really started it a couple of weeks ago because I had this feeling that I wasn't going to fit well during a period where I had to play filler music because of no singers. I took a look at the other flyers and noticed that they were modern hip-hop and old school rap oriented. In my DJ music I have almost zero modern hip-hop or old school rap and I actually like it that way. Don't get me wrong, in a regular bar that is looking for the younger crowd and has an anything goes policy, I will gladly put one of those songs into their que but I really don't like to listen to it. For the most part lately I have pretty much been hired in a family friendly venues. Where I am not allowed to play songs with the f word or a racial slur.



8) At one time Saturday used to be the big dinner night with karaoke. A few years ago I convinced the Commander of the Post to combine taco night with karaoke, when I found out they were going to start a taco night. It was a huge success and nearly equaled Saturday. The Post came into a ton of money and got away from the basics, they sort of lost their way, I was still busy doing my business so I really couldn't focus on their problems. Since I retired I have been trying to get them back to their core business which is Saturday and Monday. We shed Wednesday and Friday karaoke since like I said they were money losers. We nearly lost Mondays because this cowboy host just wasn't right for that night. He has done many things I don't agree with like moving his equipment near the bar and blasting patrons who just come in to have a drink and talk, maybe watch the game on big screen. For years we had another area where the dance floor was, where we did the karaoke, and it didn't bother the bar area. The idea is bring in patrons not force out the one's you have. I had the new host setup in the old area and guess what the bar was full. My rule of thumb is I don't care how many singers you have, I want to see that bar full, that is where the money is. You can talk all day long about how good a host is, but first I look at the total sales for the night, that is how I judge success. If you happen to have 34 singers, however, that doesn't hurt either. This new host had only two days to get the word out, what will be the response next Monday? I can only wait and see. It was a tough choice to make don't get me wrong I don't like replacing workers, but I had no choice. The Ladies Aux doing the tacos were losing money and wanting to pull out, if that happened it would have been the end of taco Monday.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:36 pm 
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got ya. it's interesting how things can change just by area.
the Legion i'm at had another host as well (oddly enough, a cowboy) and his nights are elbow to a$$ hole, but no money comes in
we cater to two different clientelle, he caters to the stereotypical "VFW, American Legion" type crowd (baby boomers and up) while i cater more to the younger crowds (the classic car clubs etc) and get much smaller rotations (usually 10 to 12) and according to the register bring in 3-4 times what he does.
the average ticket during my night is $67 (these cheap prices are amazing) but on his night with the older crowd the average ticket is $8. the younger crowd drink "craft" beers (as craft as the posts get) and the ladies drink cocktails while the older crowd drink $1 PBR and Hamm's or water and a bowl of cottage cheese (still don't quite get that one...everyplace with older crowds it's always a bowl of cottage cheese).
not arguing your success at all, just looking at the differences.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:00 pm 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
got ya. it's interesting how things can change just by area.
the Legion i'm at had another host as well (oddly enough, a cowboy) and his nights are elbow to a$$ hole, but no money comes in
we cater to two different clientelle, he caters to the stereotypical "VFW, American Legion" type crowd (baby boomers and up) while i cater more to the younger crowds (the classic car clubs etc) and get much smaller rotations (usually 10 to 12) and according to the register bring in 3-4 times what he does.
the average ticket during my night is $67 (these cheap prices are amazing) but on his night with the older crowd the average ticket is $8. the younger crowd drink "craft" beers (as craft as the posts get) and the ladies drink cocktails while the older crowd drink $1 PBR and Hamm's or water and a bowl of cottage cheese (still don't quite get that one...everyplace with older crowds it's always a bowl of cottage cheese).
not arguing your success at all, just looking at the differences.


8) It's the Golden Rule Paradigm, "Whoever Has The Gold Rules". You have to remember this is California and things are quite different here. Most of the Seniors have a boat load of money and only have their kids waiting for them to die so they can collect. Sort of a human elephants graveyard. So rather than leave everything to their children they plan on spending some of it on themselves. Why shouldn't they, they earned it? For 50,000 to 70,000.00 here you can buy a mobile home on it's own land in a senior community, that's what I did. Most seniors here did just that when they sold their homes prior to the big crash 8-9 years ago, no mortgage monkey on the back.

Many worked in high paying Southern California jobs or retired here from Canada (Snow Birds). I'm not saying they throw their money around but, they do go out with friends. I have little old ladies that are 70 to 80 years old still looking for a man, as well as older gentlemen that still date quite a bit. Most every older person here belongs to some kind of fitness program, I my self walk every morning over two miles a day. The cottage cheese thing is easy, it's a diet food rich in protein with little or no fat. Richard Nixon used to eat it all the time when he was on a diet, he put ketchup on his. Oh and they do drink as well Wine, beer and mixed drinks, strangely the young people here don't have the disposable income they seem to have in your area. Many have children or are still living off of dear mom and dad.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:45 pm 
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I have been going to a friend's show which is at a couple of VFW'S and I have seen baby boomers buy just about the whole bar drinks and think nothing of what it's costing them. And the thing is that they just about take turns buying rounds of drinks. I still have a couple of chips from Friday night and don't know exactly when I will get to use them.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:56 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
I guess it doesn't hurt to say where I'm located since I'm not active in the industry anymore. I live in Hemet California now and have for the last 8 years. It is a heavy retirement community not many young families or young people for that matter.


Ah Hemet, until she moved to Arizona I had a niece that lived there (I'm in Corona and my shows are in Riverside). And you're right about it being older. When I was active in the Elks I had the ER of the Hemet Lodge comment that while their officer corps may not do all that well at the ritual competitions he'd put their funeral detail up against any one in the country. (Which is funny but also sad at the same time. Often people would join in their 60's and then die in the next 5 to 10 years, sometimes less than a year after they had joined.)

BTW I remember all those shows and don't forget the original daily Mickey Mouse Club and since I grew up outside of Philly I watched the Original Bandstand when it was just local (talk about memories).


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:34 am 
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8) I was a mobile KJ myself and played all over the Inland Empire.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:12 am 
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8) A little update:

I just talked to the new commander of the post and the finance officer. Our old commander had to resign due to health issues, so it looks like I will be given a free hand to revise our sagging fortunes and turn everything around. The latest figures show that Monday's receipts more than doubled Saturday's and that was the big steak dinner night at the post. I have been working closely with the new Monday night KJ and we are working out a plan together to make things even better. Once things have calmed down a bit, I will get the hosts back in to the old area, and get the speakers out of the bar. I'm going to oversee getting our seating arrangement back like it was so that we will once again have a large dance floor in front of the former karaoke station the KJ's use. I'm trying to stay optimistic that the cowboy KJ will see what the other host is doing and try to adjust to the target market goals of the post. Having been on both sides I can see what needs to be done and I'm willing to work with both hosts to make it all happen. My only concern is that the cowboy KJ will not want to adapt, maybe it's unfair to try and make him. I do want to give him every chance so I don't have to sack him.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:50 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
(still don't quite get that one...everyplace with older crowds it's always a bowl of cottage cheese).


Because cottage cheese is delicious?

Admittedly, my better half refers to cottage cheese as my "ice cream" because I find ice cream revolting, but will eat cottage cheese daily.

Oh my god. I have actually become an old person.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:58 am 
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8) Try it you might like it, many more become older everyday. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:03 pm 
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8) After looking over the seating arrangement at the post I think I can devise a setup that will work for both hosts, a compromise that will make setup between performances less of a hassle.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:47 am 
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8) Well tonight is the second Monday for our new host. He has had a full week to rally his troops so I'm going to be ready to sign in all visitors so we are ABC compliant. This morning I'm personally going to oversee the new seating arrangement to take full advantage of both hosts different styles. I monitored Saturday's show and it was pretty standard. We pay the host for 4 hours during the dinner service there were 28 singers on the list. It took him 1 hour and 46 minutes to get through the first rotation. Dinner service ends at 7:00 P.M. by 7:14 P.M. the bar is empty and half the singers have gone home. He tells me there is a second wave that hits the beach at around 7:30 P.M. What happens is his mill kids show up and he inserts them ahead of patrons who have been buying food and drinks all night, and of course they try to put their $2.00 soda on their credit card. How can you go any place with no cash in your wallet? This second wave also consists of all of the kitchen crew and servers. They sing their song and have their drinks and usually it's all over by 8 or 8:30 P. M. at the latest. By contrast the Monday host had a strong crowd all night and played over his 9:00 PM cutoff to about 9:30.


The proof is in the numbers. Saturday used to be our big night and Monday was just icing on the cake. According to the figures our last Monday did over two times better. The real kicker I can see is that it is almost two different crowds that come on Saturday and Monday there isn't the overlap I was hoping for. Two different hosts with two different styles and two different bottom lines results. So far my focus on the baby boomer segment of our business is paying off. The trend is your friend, so they say, I just hope we can keep the momentum going to night. I will give you and update tomorrow, same bat time same bat channel.


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