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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:09 am 
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So despite the fact that I have been tirelessly trying to find a venue that will allow me to do the kind of show that I want *which means i haven't hosted a pubic gig in almost 6 years* i got the opportunity to sub for a karaoke host aquaintence two Saturdays ago.

it was a very interesting experience.

First i set up everything the way that I like to have if possible, which is the music going to an active subwoofer with crossover, and that sends the mid and highs to my QSCgx5 amplifier.

So the music was coming thru to the mixer because the faders were jumping around, but i was getting no sound from the speakers. After double checking everything, i couldn't figure out why there was no music, so I went with the simpler setup of just having the music go straight to the amp. Still nothing.

Turns out that I'm not used to having a quality, professional board. On my old behringer mixer, there is no on/off switch for the master fader. On my newly purchased yamah 12mxu there is. DOH!

So then i do a sound check. One mic isn't working properly.. A quick examination shows that the switch on the microphone is busted.. Alright, i can work with one microphone and my wireless. On I go.

So after fixing that problem, i had 20 minutes left to before the show started *I got there super early just in case something happened*

About 40 minutes into the show, I start to get unbearable static. So i figure out which channel it's coming from, and try switching the cord which one that i know works from a good channel.. No static.. Aha! So I put the good cord back, and replace the bad cord.. still static.. Replace it with another cord. No luck.. Replace it with a THIRD cord. SUCCESS!!

Another 40 minutes go by, and the words start to lag behind the music.. Try the sync adjust.. no luck. Try restarting program.. still nothing. Reboot computer, and the computer wants to do an UPDATE.. ARRRG i had forgotten to turn off the stupid wifi. So at this point, i figure its time to switch to discs. So i ask my helper to go get the discs and player out of his car *i had specifically asked him to bring them before the show*. He had the discs, but had forgotten the player.. Fortunately he lives pretty close by, so off he goes.


By the time he had gotten back, i had managed to get the computer running properly again, and I finished out the night with no more problems.


Despite all this i managed not to panic overly, I didn't snap at any of the singers, which is a problem i've had to work on in the past when i am stressed and everyone is asking me questions or trying to get my attention. There were more dancers and people playing pool that singers, but no one walked out.

If i get another chance at it however, next time I am bringing a back up computer *lol*

thanks for letting me vent

-James


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:07 pm 
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Welcome to Murphys law karaoke 101,
Good to know you are applying the good,,
Old toe test! (also known as Murkys law),
Before you jump into the swim of things,
You never know what lies beneath the
Surface! Crocodiles, Sharks, Seals!


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:50 am 
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jclaydon wrote:
So despite the fact that I have been tirelessly trying to find a venue that will allow me to do the kind of show that I want *which means i haven't hosted a pubic gig in almost 6 years*

-James



8) Jim maybe it is time to take a different approach to trying to convince a venue to run your show your way. After all if your way is so good the venue owner has to ask, "why are your looking for a gig"? Maybe if you put the venue at the center of focus and the owner's concerns to rest by listening to them, things might change. After all if you do things their way for awhile and gradually changes things to suit yourself, it will seem that you are working together for a common goal. What is that goal? For the show to be a success and make the venue and it's owner a ton of money. Isn't that what it is all about?


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:53 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
jclaydon wrote:
So despite the fact that I have been tirelessly trying to find a venue that will allow me to do the kind of show that I want *which means i haven't hosted a pubic gig in almost 6 years*

-James



8) Jim maybe it is time to take a different approach to trying to convince a venue to run your show your way. After all if your way is so good the venue owner has to ask, "why are your looking for a gig"? Maybe if you put the venue at the center of focus and the owner's concerns to rest by listening to them, things might change. After all if you do things their way for awhile and gradually changes things to suit yourself, it will seem that you are working together for a common goal. What is that goal? For the show to be a success and make the venue and it's owner a ton of money. Isn't that what it is all about?


Well I am thinking of the venue. The show I want to do is in a Family restaurant. It's all about the numbers. Of all the public shows I've done over the years, I've maybe been able to get an average of 3 people to show up. Not enough to make a profit for a bar.

of all the private parties I've done at my local church, I have invited an average of 100 people, and ALL of them showed up *not at the same time obviously*

so if they let me do a show where I could invited families, it would have a higher success of making money.

James


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:19 pm 
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jclaydon wrote:
So despite the fact that I have been tirelessly trying to find a venue that will allow me to do the kind of show that I want *which means i haven't hosted a pubic gig in almost 6 years* I got the opportunity to sub for a karaoke host acquaintance two Saturdays ago.


jclaydon wrote:
The show I want to do is in a Family restaurant. It's all about the numbers. Of all the public shows I've done over the years, I've maybe been able to get an average of 3 people to show up. Not enough to make a profit for a bar.

of all the private parties I've done at my local church, I have invited an average of 100 people, and ALL of them showed up *not at the same time obviously*

so if they let me do a show where I could invited families, it would have a higher success of making money.

James

So basically, it sounds like you are looking for a place that has a built in crowd already (referring to the people who like to eat out at a particular restaurant). Keep in mind, there are certain restrictions that you may have to concern yourself with:
1. Volume Control - The people who are dining out may not have been expecting Karaoke while they were eating. My general experience with this is, people have requested the volume be turned down so they can enjoy their meals and conversations. Sometimes the volume has been so low, the Singer does not have a good experience (they can't hear themselves, or they can't hear the music).
2. Censorship - You will have to deal with this, ESPECIALLY if it is a Family type restaurant, where children are present.

Now, you said it's all about the numbers. You also said that when you did a public show (I am assuming you mean at a local Bar/Tavern), that you barely had 3 people in attendance, thus, the Bar/Tavern was not making any money/profit off of hiring you for your services. What makes you think having your show in a Restaurant will be any different?

The Restaurant is already making money off of the people that came there to eat. The Restaurant's goal is to get a higher turn-around of Diners. Once one table has finished their meal, they want to clear it out so more people can sit at that table and order their meals. Now, unless these people are going to stay an extra 2 or 3 hours (above and beyond the hour or so that they already spent there eating) for your show, AND, they spend more money on drinks (which is what Restaurants make their biggest profits on), you would not be bringing anything new to the table (pun intended) for them.

I have been to Restaurants where there was Karaoke, and what I saw was, the people ate their meals, paid their checks, and then stayed at their table for the rest of the show... maybe even ordered one more drink, or just kept having coffee for the rest of the night (but did not really spend any more money). Their justification was that they DID support you by attending the show and buying a meal. And these people basically spent what some other group of Diners would have spent if a table had been available to them.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:56 am 
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Not to hijack this thread, but if anything can go wrong, I seem to be trying to run a show near there.

I was asked to host a private show, Cave Creek AZ., to welcome home an Iraq vet.

I get all set up, and sploosh, a beer is spilled on my laptop keyboard. :shock:

Well, darn.. (&*^&%$#)

So the homeowner/host did actually have a laptop, and I was able to use it for a few hours. Carry on.. :D


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 5:04 am 
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Cue, your last post was very well stated. James' argument doesn't seem to make sense to me, but I don't know what the demographics of his area are.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 7:12 am 
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mrmarog wrote:
Cue, your last post was very well stated. James' argument doesn't seem to make sense to me, but I don't know what the demographics of his area are.



8) I don't know if it is a question of demographics or type of venue. What James is describing is not a regular eatery, but more of a non-profit bar type situation that has a dinner night. The American Legion, VFW, Moose, Elk, and Eagle type of situation. I'm a member of many of these Veteran groups and Lodges. They are family centered don't pay as much since they are non-profit, but they set their dinners from 5-7, and usually the entertainment starts at 6 and is usually over by 10 or 11. I don't know how many of these are in James's area but that sounds like the type of venue that would be receptive to his type of show.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:39 am 
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cueball wrote:
jclaydon wrote:


jclaydon wrote:

.

Now, you said it's all about the numbers. You also said that when you did a public show (I am assuming you mean at a local Bar/Tavern), that you barely had 3 people in attendance, thus, the Bar/Tavern was not making any money/profit off of hiring you for your services. What makes you think having your show in a Restaurant will be any different?

The Restaurant is already making money off of the people that came there to eat. The Restaurant's goal is to get a higher turn-around of Diners. Once one table has finished their meal, they want to clear it out so more people can sit at that table and order their meals. Now, unless these people are going to stay an extra 2 or 3 hours (above and beyond the hour or so that they already spent there eating) for your show, AND, they spend more money on drinks (which is what Restaurants make their biggest profits on), you would not be bringing anything new to the table (pun intended) for them.

.


The difference is I know more people that have families, that if I invite them, they will actually show up.

If a venue has an average of say 10 people/hour that stay an average of 10 minutes then I know I could blow those numbers out of the water without even having to lift a finger.

I could keep such a place at 100% capacity for the entire night instead of the usual lull and breaks that come from running a restaurant.

Yes people will stay longer, but those people will probably end up spending more on drinks *as long as they charged after the second refill or something similar*

plus families with smaller child will not likely want to stay for the entire show. Small children get bored easily, so those people will leave after 1 or two songs, thus making room for other people.

-James


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:14 am 
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ok so my original post was more about venting than anything else, but since the other points were brought up, here is my thinking/plan

Find a place that would be willing for me to run a show from something like 7pm til either midnight, or maybe even 1am.


7pm-8ish - All the families with small children show up, stay for 1 or two songs *should be doable because it should mostly be short songs under 3 minutes

8pm-9pm
People with older children start to show up. They will stay as long as they are allowed to *most of the people I know from my church still have a cerfew even tho they are 17*

9pm-closing
Die hard karaoke crowd, mostly adults If all children are gone, I will lift censorship ban, if not.. Well everyone I know has songs that are 100% clean that they can sing without any problems

some issues mentioned from other posts

1. People staying longer
My staggered approach would counteract this to some degree, and as I stated before, they could start charging for pop refills on karaoke night

2. Have to censor songs
Most of the people I know who attend karaoke at a regular bar show sing clean songs anyway, and if they really want to sing a song with bad lyrics in them, then they are welcome to as long as all the families have left

3. Low Music levels
I personally would LOVE this situation. With my new Yamaha board I can play music at levels that would allow everyone to have a conversation and hear every word the other person is saying perfectly without shouting but still be able to listen to the music if they wanted to.

In fact the Saturday I spoke of at my original post I did EXACTLY that. I had the music and singers at levels where I could barely hear anything from my station, but you could hear all the way to the back of the bar and you could even hear everything in the bathroom.. But people could still manage to talk over the music without having to yell.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:07 am 
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8) There is one problem with centering things on families, they are on budgets and usually don't spend as much as young singles. About 20 years ago Las Vegas attempted to turn Sin City into a place for families. There was Camelot, Treasure Island and other theme casinos geared towards young families with children. Over the years the city has shifted back towards the young adult males since that is where the profits are. The last time I was there parents have to keep their children on a short leash since there is a curfew that has been imposed by the city, especially on young teens. Most venues that have karaoke probably either gear their entertainment to young adults who drink or retired baby boomers. These groups have the most disposable entertainment income, not young families.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:39 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
8) There is one problem with centering things on families, they are on budgets and usually don't spend as much as young singles. About 20 years ago Las Vegas attempted to turn Sin City into a place for families. There was Camelot, Treasure Island and other theme casinos geared towards young families with children. Over the years the city has shifted back towards the young adult males since that is where the profits are. The last time I was there parents have to keep their children on a short leash since there is a curfew that has been imposed by the city, especially on young teens. Most venues that have karaoke probably either gear their entertainment to young adults who drink or retired baby boomers. These groups have the most disposable entertainment income, not young families.


Better something than nothing. Even the most populated restaurant I have been to in my area was only at 50-60% capacity whenever I have gone in, even at their busiest times. Even our local Mcdonald's usually has empty seats from 6 onward.

That's a lot of empty seats that are earning absolutely nothing

Plus just because i'm focusing on families doesn't mean that you can't include the other demographic. That's why I want to run a show from 7-closing.. So I can have everyone covered.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:15 pm 
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jclaydon wrote:

Better something than nothing. Even the most populated restaurant I have been to in my area was only at 50-60% capacity whenever I have gone in, even at their busiest times. Even our local Mcdonald's usually has empty seats from 6 onward.

That's a lot of empty seats that are earning absolutely nothing

Plus just because i'm focusing on families doesn't mean that you can't include the other demographic. That's why I want to run a show from 7-closing.. So I can have everyone covered.



8) Just how small are we talking about? I live in a town with 78,000 people most of them retired, we still support several karaoke shows on any given night, and the food places are pretty crowded until 9 or 10. There are all the lodges plus 2 American Legions and a large VFW. If things are really as slow as you say they are James, can the small business's even afford to pay for a show? Using families as the anchor of your show might be expecting too much. Since people tend to support their churches not so much the local restaurants it would be a challenge getting that same group to support both on a regular basis.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:13 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
jclaydon wrote:

Better something than nothing. Even the most populated restaurant I have been to in my area was only at 50-60% capacity whenever I have gone in, even at their busiest times. Even our local Mcdonald's usually has empty seats from 6 onward.

That's a lot of empty seats that are earning absolutely nothing

Plus just because i'm focusing on families doesn't mean that you can't include the other demographic. That's why I want to run a show from 7-closing.. So I can have everyone covered.



8) Just how small are we talking about? I live in a town with 78,000 people most of them retired, we still support several karaoke shows on any given night, and the food places are pretty crowded until 9 or 10. There are all the lodges plus 2 American Legions and a large VFW. If things are really as slow as you say they are James, can the small business's even afford to pay for a show? Using families as the anchor of your show might be expecting too much. Since people tend to support their churches not so much the local restaurants it would be a challenge getting that same group to support both on a regular basis.


it's weird, but I can't seem to find current stats. in 2011, the population was just under 13,000 people. My guess is it wouldn't be much higher than 18,000 probably less. However, we are about a twenty minute highway drive from a town called Okotoks that has a much higher population.

I think I could generate enough traffic that I could charge $150 for the five hours.. That's still only $30/hour and doesn't come anywhere near what a live band would charge. Hell the minimum wage here is around $15. *of course, that is candian dollars, so it would be a lot less if it was in the US lol*


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 3:59 am 
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8) Just how many live bands are active in such a small area? I bet they still work their day jobs. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 6:43 am 
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Off to Catalina to dip my toe in the water.. I may even sing a bit too..


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 10:05 am 
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Regarding only having 3 people show up to a show, I would like to share my experience on how to get more attendance at a show. I started my own show one year ago and typically have 20 to 30 singers per night. This is at venues that don't have good food or service and would only have 2-3 customers other nights of the week. If it weren't for my show, these people might come to these venues once and never return. The reason they return and the reason they bring people back with them: quality of the show. That is the one variable that I control. How do you get people to come in the first place? Advertising. The key to advertising is casting a big net and being patient. Advertising needs to launch two to three weeks before the first show. It doesn't yield instant results - you have to give it time to work. Here are the methods that I have used with success:
- Road signs in front of the venue. Big letters "KARAOKE". You're not advertising the venue, you're advertising the activity. 99% of people don't care about karaoke will ignore the sign. The 1% who are interested will see that word and pay attention.
- Poster on the door/wall of the venue
- Create Facebook event/page. This will show up in google searches
- Use online event pages (evensi, etrigg, local event sites). These show up in google searches
- Craigslist (musician section)
- Twitter, Instagram. These show up in google searches.
- Business cards that specifically say "Friday Karaoke". Hand these out to people you meet.

I draw my own graphics on the computer so most of those items above are free. The road signs and business cards are the biggest expense. I probably paid about $100 for those. New inserts for the signs cost about $25 if you move to a new venue.

With all of that, I would hope you would get more than 3 people on the first night. At that point, it is very important that the show is dialed in and running very good starting on the first night. If people come to the show and it's not run well and the equipment and sound is bad, they may never return. You have one chance to impress new customers, then you've lost them forever.


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