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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:54 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
mrscott wrote:
If they are such great employees, they would not waste time spending literally hours outside each day lighting up.

if they are non smokers...what are they literally wasting hours outside during their required breaks doing? if they smoke or not, the break time is the same...and it's is mandated they take them.

mrscott wrote:
And if it is actually their break time, and they feel the need to have a nicotine fix, maybe I could concede them calming their nerves with a smoke break. However, if they are truly "quality" employees, they probably would be able to control their habits long enough to get through a shift.


i can see you have never had an addiction. i was considered a light smoker, and would smoke on lunch break. you are saying that i am not a quality employee? are you actually saying that hosts here that smoke a quick one during a long song are not quality?


Now you are trying to put words into my mouth. I never said, and never will say, that just because a person smokes does not mean that they cannot be a quality employee. That is not the idea here. All I am saying is no smoking while on shift, the very same opportunity that the non smokers have. Have a coke, sit down, breath the night air, stare at the sky,, that is up to them how the relax. I have already said that I might be willing to concede a real smoke break, but when it becomes a problem, then it ends. Right there and right then.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:12 am 
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CafeBar wrote:
MrScott, I agree that the bar service you're describing appears to be going downhill in the owner's absence, but I'd suggest looking at roots instead of branches.

The bartender's problem is that she drinks on the job and appears to be indifferent to customer service. That's a deal-killer. It's interesting that you focus on smoking, because you say the two cocktail staff do a good job and don't take excessive breaks even though they're smokers. So smoking isn't the problem.

Similarly, your complaint about the drunk husband coming in is valid, because he's drunk and distracts the staff. But it's illegal to serve a visibly intoxicated person (VIP, and not in the good way), so there's no reason for him to be there. That's the problem, not that he's a spouse. It's also reasonable to reserve the right to ban 'significant others' from the bar if they divert attention away from guests, and when employees are told that they'll keep it in check.

Your takeaway from this is that you don't want smokers or spouses in the bar, but those are not the primary problem in either case, IMO. In a well managed bar, neither would be a problem--just as you observed, all three servers smoke, and it's only an issue with one of them, who's a lousy server no matter what.

Like I said, roots before branches. If someone has gangrene in his leg, you don't give a pedicure.


I find it interesting that you say I focus on smoking!!!!! I do not. Never once have I said that smokers will not be hired. The "good" people here have read into something that I didn't say and you yourself have followed suit. All I said is no smoking while on shift, and no significant others while on shift. Yes, I see both of those as a problem, but then again so is focusing on having quality food, or offer a safe work environment, or,,, you choose any other line from the very first post. The bar in question is not the question or the problem. The question was "if I owned a bar, I would....". I was simply looking for some ideas from other points of view, rather than from a KJ's perspective. And everyone jumped on the smoking rule as if it was the end to meet all ends. HOLY CRAP PEOPLE!!!! READ THE DAMN POSTS!! Talk about roots vs branches... smh.

I truly do appreciate your feedback, but how about focusing on the question at hand instead of what you want to see. Like I said, pure speculation on my part when it comes to the bar I mentioned. But each and every time I go to visit different clubs or restaurants, I see things that they do that are counter productive to the success of the establishment. It makes me wonder who makes the rules, and who is enforcing them. I am not a dictator by any stretch of the word, I am a perfectionist of sorts. I am organized, I am a planner, I am a thinker (sometimes over-thinker),,, all of which have served me well. I do not smoke nor drink, not even soda or coffee. Yes, I am a Mormon, but that has absolutely nothing to do with what I choose to do or not do. I learn from others mistakes. I watched my dad smoke up a storm all day long,,,, so I chose NOT to smoke. I see someone who has anger issues, I learn how to deal with my own from theirs. I see someone who gives aweful customer service, so I figure out how good customer service should be, from my stand point.

What I have asked and what will actually happen are probably far from each other. But it never hurts to ask the question in the first place.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:10 am 
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Krisko wrote:
If I owned a bar... it would be a singers dream. I would invest in big stage sound and lights to create an environment that made the singer feel like they'd be putting on a concert every time. I would hold draws to have a singer every month put on a 4 song set with a live band once a month. I would marry high end karaoke with high end food and drinks. I don't know what's it's like other places but out here, karaoke ends up in dive bars, and I've never seen a place with a wide beer and wine selection have karaoke lol.

I dunno.... it's a dream, but mayeb one day.


Thats some good thoughts. It might actually be a feasible possibility in your area. I do not know. Here, karaoke is a dying concept. It is only a side attraction to a very small limited customer base. The bars that are succeeding in this area do exactly what you describe,, large dance areas, great lighting, big stages and constant activities. They are the bigger clubs that can offer multiple areas of seating/rooms. Karaoke often hides in a small room at these places and the singers wander in and out all night long. The result is the KJ has to massage the rotation all night long. Sooner or later, karaoke will slowly fizzle out completely (IMO) and the mode of entertainment or activites at bars will have to make the adjustment. But until then, business as usual I suppose.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:19 am 
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rickgood wrote:
I'll put my two cents in on this topic. My djs are in bars and restaurants 6 nights a week, multiple shows per night, so I see and have seen a lot over the years. Bottom line, drunks should not buy or run bars, sounds like common sense, you'd think. Question for Mr Scott, do you think the bar manager is purchasing drinks all night long while working? I'm going to bet not, so there's more problems here than running out smoking. Somebody better buy the bar before it goes under because reviving it after it closes is much tougher.



You are absolutely correct. If someone doesn't revamp the place now, it will certainly close forever. I could not say for certain that the bartender mentioned is actually purchasing anything. I suspect not. My personal opinion (which does not count really) is she should have never been hired in the first place. Again my opinion, but I believe she is the reason for the decline single handedly. The rest of the employees only follow her lead and either just do the bare minimum to get thru the night, or they become disillusioned quickly and quit. I truly admire the owner and his perserverance, but with his health and his sisters health in serious doubt, his best choice would be to sell now for whatever reasonable offer he can get, regardless of what it is actually worth. He can't take it with him ya know ;) He is pretty much debt free, and the money he would receive for the sale of his assets could possibly give him the chance at better care and better quality of life. New owners can make all the difference for sure. Again, I am just purely speculating that I would be that new person.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:02 am 
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MrScott, I can tell you're a thoughtful and thorough planner, and my comments are not intended to denigrate that. Most of the ideas in your OP are generally good ones.

It's just easy to fall into the trap of personal dislikes that affect you and overlook more important things. It's a fair bet that most of your customers in a bar won't be observant Mormons. And I'm not miscronstruing your take on smoking--just making the useful and realistic point that not allowing smokers to smoke during their breaks is tantamount to not hiring smokers. Obviously, the drunk husband is disruptive to service, but that situation needs to be managed, and not necessarily by a blanket rule that might harm your business in another way. The bartender should probably be canned, but if she's very popular with regulars you might take a shot at straightening her out. My guess is that she won't be amenable to it.

The choice you have here is as much one of imagination as of planning. Trying to imagine what the place could be like, which is pretty much wide open, is surprisingly hard work. Would you try hard to keep the existing clientele, or would you try to rebrand? The problem with exchanging one clientele for another is that sometimes the other clientele doesn't show up. One of our local bars was owned by non-smokers, and after years of hearing that their friends didn't come in because of indoor smoking, they unilaterally decided to ban smoking. They suffered a mass exodus of good regulars who came every day, and as you can probably guess, their friends rarely showed up. One of the owners told me it was the biggest mistake they ever made--since then, the state banned indoor smoking so they bounced back.

My point is to be careful about assuming there are a lot of people who have the same beefs about bars that you do, who would actually sufficiently support your business.

If you're interested in improving food quality, you might consider having the sort of bar that permits minors during the day for dining (the laws restricting this vary from state to state). Kind of rebranding yourself as a bar-themed restaurant. If you're not experienced with food service, you'll want to bring someone on board for that. The infrastructure of the kitchen will make a big difference with the food offerings--get a general idea of what you'd like to serve, and see how close you can come without excessive modifications to the kitchen.

Again, the choice of food will be partly determined by your purpose--are you trying to offer better food to the existing clientele and improve traffic, or can you envision adding new clientele that wouldn't have gone to the old place? In the latter case, you should look for a style of food that has broad appeal but that is underrepresented in your community. Never compete any more directly with another business than you have to, because you're better off creating something unique than splitting their business, and ultimately competing on price which is not good.

In the former case, you might find that the existing clientele might like things like poppers and onion rings, which will reduce your staffing costs. We do most of our food from scratch, make two soups every day, several specials each at breakfast, lunch and dinner, etc., but we also do 70% of our business in food and have a separate dining room. We still offer some of that off-the-shelf bar snack-type stuff because some of our guests like it.

In short (I know, too late), ask yourself "Who are my customers going to be, and how do I keep them safe and make them happy?" Every small and large decision you make should come from that place. And, of course, make sure you're making money while you do it, which is easier said than done.

I would be glad to offer you some useful specifics on service management that would address most of the issues you've raised, and I think it will illustrate why it's better to address issues structurally rather than swatting away at annoyances. Let me know if you're interested.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:27 pm 
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CafeBar wrote:
MrScott, I can tell you're a thoughtful and thorough planner, and my comments are not intended to denigrate that. Most of the ideas in your OP are generally good ones.

It's just easy to fall into the trap of personal dislikes that affect you and overlook more important things. It's a fair bet that most of your customers in a bar won't be observant Mormons. And I'm not miscronstruing your take on smoking--just making the useful and realistic point that not allowing smokers to smoke during their breaks is tantamount to not hiring smokers. Obviously, the drunk husband is disruptive to service, but that situation needs to be managed, and not necessarily by a blanket rule that might harm your business in another way. The bartender should probably be canned, but if she's very popular with regulars you might take a shot at straightening her out. My guess is that she won't be amenable to it.

The choice you have here is as much one of imagination as of planning. Trying to imagine what the place could be like, which is pretty much wide open, is surprisingly hard work. Would you try hard to keep the existing clientele, or would you try to rebrand? The problem with exchanging one clientele for another is that sometimes the other clientele doesn't show up. One of our local bars was owned by non-smokers, and after years of hearing that their friends didn't come in because of indoor smoking, they unilaterally decided to ban smoking. They suffered a mass exodus of good regulars who came every day, and as you can probably guess, their friends rarely showed up. One of the owners told me it was the biggest mistake they ever made--since then, the state banned indoor smoking so they bounced back.

My point is to be careful about assuming there are a lot of people who have the same beefs about bars that you do, who would actually sufficiently support your business.

If you're interested in improving food quality, you might consider having the sort of bar that permits minors during the day for dining (the laws restricting this vary from state to state). Kind of rebranding yourself as a bar-themed restaurant. If you're not experienced with food service, you'll want to bring someone on board for that. The infrastructure of the kitchen will make a big difference with the food offerings--get a general idea of what you'd like to serve, and see how close you can come without excessive modifications to the kitchen.

Again, the choice of food will be partly determined by your purpose--are you trying to offer better food to the existing clientele and improve traffic, or can you envision adding new clientele that wouldn't have gone to the old place? In the latter case, you should look for a style of food that has broad appeal but that is underrepresented in your community. Never compete any more directly with another business than you have to, because you're better off creating something unique than splitting their business, and ultimately competing on price which is not good.

In the former case, you might find that the existing clientele might like things like poppers and onion rings, which will reduce your staffing costs. We do most of our food from scratch, make two soups every day, several specials each at breakfast, lunch and dinner, etc., but we also do 70% of our business in food and have a separate dining room. We still offer some of that off-the-shelf bar snack-type stuff because some of our guests like it.

In short (I know, too late), ask yourself "Who are my customers going to be, and how do I keep them safe and make them happy?" Every small and large decision you make should come from that place. And, of course, make sure you're making money while you do it, which is easier said than done.

I would be glad to offer you some useful specifics on service management that would address most of the issues you've raised, and I think it will illustrate why it's better to address issues structurally rather than swatting away at annoyances. Let me know if you're interested.


Thank you for this response. This is exactly what I was asking for in the very first place. You are correct in assuming that this is more of a "what if" ,than it is a "plan". I am not exactly talking about this bar in particular, but a general concept. There is a need for places to go in general, but the Mormon community is tough to fight thru the permit process and acceptance for sure. The bar I have described and used as an example is only one that I have worked at over the years. Many have closed their doors completely for one reason or another. Going back to the population increase in our county over the last 30+ years and using that as an example.... We have gone from 17 thousand county residents to almost 30 thousand county residents. The percentage of LDS vs non LDS people (Mormon for you those who do not understand) has actually dropped from approx. 70% to just over 60%. The number of bars in the entire county has gone from 8 down to 1 left standing. So, a person cannot tell me that the need for more venues is not there, or the population cannot support more. The bar I used as the possible example is actually 80 miles and 2 counties away. And to respond to your question about it. Yes, I would rebrand totally, but would keep most of the existing staff. There is little to no food there to begin with (microwave food and frozen pizza as the only option now) I agree fully about not creating a menu that would be a common item to get locally or compete with locally. I am not that naive in thinking that "I could do a better burger/taco/pizza" when there are fine local choices for those. I would do my research beforehand... (I was actually thinking BBQ, but that is just a thought) A total remodel and facelift would be my goal and a grand re-opening with a huge invite of local and dignitaries. That would be just the start.

Your input would be awesome for sure. Like the old addage goes.... "you don't go to your plumber to get your car fixed" :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:32 pm 
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mrscott wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
mrscott wrote:
If they are such great employees, they would not waste time spending literally hours outside each day lighting up.

if they are non smokers...what are they literally wasting hours outside during their required breaks doing? if they smoke or not, the break time is the same...and it's is mandated they take them.

mrscott wrote:
And if it is actually their break time, and they feel the need to have a nicotine fix, maybe I could concede them calming their nerves with a smoke break. However, if they are truly "quality" employees, they probably would be able to control their habits long enough to get through a shift.


i can see you have never had an addiction. i was considered a light smoker, and would smoke on lunch break. you are saying that i am not a quality employee? are you actually saying that hosts here that smoke a quick one during a long song are not quality?


Now you are trying to put words into my mouth. I never said, and never will say, that just because a person smokes does not mean that they cannot be a quality employee. That is not the idea here. All I am saying is no smoking while on shift, the very same opportunity that the non smokers have. Have a coke, sit down, breath the night air, stare at the sky,, that is up to them how the relax. I have already said that I might be willing to concede a real smoke break, but when it becomes a problem, then it ends. Right there and right then.

no, but you DID say that if they ARE a quality employee they could go 9 hours without smoking (their shift).
some smokers are light enough that they CAN go several hours without, but the physical addiction dictates that most can not. not for being mentally weak, but for the physical addiction which is why i stated you have never had a real addiction. i agree 100% with the thinking about those who need one every 30 minutes (that is excessive even for addicted people) and see where it would cause a real problem, but not allowing at all for 9 straight hours because they could smell like they smoked is where we part ways.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:50 pm 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
mrscott wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
mrscott wrote:
If they are such great employees, they would not waste time spending literally hours outside each day lighting up.

if they are non smokers...what are they literally wasting hours outside during their required breaks doing? if they smoke or not, the break time is the same...and it's is mandated they take them.

mrscott wrote:
And if it is actually their break time, and they feel the need to have a nicotine fix, maybe I could concede them calming their nerves with a smoke break. However, if they are truly "quality" employees, they probably would be able to control their habits long enough to get through a shift.


i can see you have never had an addiction. i was considered a light smoker, and would smoke on lunch break. you are saying that i am not a quality employee? are you actually saying that hosts here that smoke a quick one during a long song are not quality?


Now you are trying to put words into my mouth. I never said, and never will say, that just because a person smokes does not mean that they cannot be a quality employee. That is not the idea here. All I am saying is no smoking while on shift, the very same opportunity that the non smokers have. Have a coke, sit down, breath the night air, stare at the sky,, that is up to them how the relax. I have already said that I might be willing to concede a real smoke break, but when it becomes a problem, then it ends. Right there and right then.

no, but you DID say that if they ARE a quality employee they could go 9 hours without smoking (their shift).
some smokers are light enough that they CAN go several hours without, but the physical addiction dictates that most can not. not for being mentally weak, but for the physical addiction which is why i stated you have never had a real addiction. i agree 100% with the thinking about those who need one every 30 minutes (that is excessive even for addicted people) and see where it would cause a real problem, but not allowing at all for 9 straight hours because they could smell like they smoked is where we part ways.


I am going to start something here that is going to piss many of you off. Period. First of all, your statement is idiotic. Yes I said that!!! Your statement is idiotic. A shift can be 4 hours, or 2 or whatever the manager scheduled. Smoking is a bad habit, one of many types of bad habits, it does not make bad people or employees, but it does show a lack of personal ethics and character. For those of you out there who smoke, YES you have a weakness and a character flaw from that weakness. You probably started smoking because of peer pressure, or thought it was the "cool" thing to do. You just didn't wake up one day and say to yourself,, "Gee, if I start smoking, I can get a good job". Like it or not, and I advise those who have self destructive habits to take a very good look in the mirror and see what your bad choices have caused you throughout your life. NOW I AM PREACHING!! This entire thread was not about smoking or not smoking and Alan and you Paradigm saw ONLY what you wanted to see. Yes I am now seriously furious and for me to respond with this type of text is way far from my personal comfort zone. But, I see people like you who have your blinders on about what is true, and it makes my blood boil!!! You twist words, just like a filthy rotten lawyer to fit your own views. (Yes take THAT Jim Harrington, you piss me off too) Ya like that??? You just lowered me to your level!!!

Do ya get it yet???? STOP WITH THE SMOKING/NON SMOKING CRAP!!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:50 pm 
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mrscott wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
mrscott wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
mrscott wrote:
If they are such great employees, they would not waste time spending literally hours outside each day lighting up.

if they are non smokers...what are they literally wasting hours outside during their required breaks doing? if they smoke or not, the break time is the same...and it's is mandated they take them.

mrscott wrote:
And if it is actually their break time, and they feel the need to have a nicotine fix, maybe I could concede them calming their nerves with a smoke break. However, if they are truly "quality" employees, they probably would be able to control their habits long enough to get through a shift.


i can see you have never had an addiction. i was considered a light smoker, and would smoke on lunch break. you are saying that i am not a quality employee? are you actually saying that hosts here that smoke a quick one during a long song are not quality?


Now you are trying to put words into my mouth. I never said, and never will say, that just because a person smokes does not mean that they cannot be a quality employee. That is not the idea here. All I am saying is no smoking while on shift, the very same opportunity that the non smokers have. Have a coke, sit down, breath the night air, stare at the sky,, that is up to them how the relax. I have already said that I might be willing to concede a real smoke break, but when it becomes a problem, then it ends. Right there and right then.

no, but you DID say that if they ARE a quality employee they could go 9 hours without smoking (their shift).
some smokers are light enough that they CAN go several hours without, but the physical addiction dictates that most can not. not for being mentally weak, but for the physical addiction which is why i stated you have never had a real addiction. i agree 100% with the thinking about those who need one every 30 minutes (that is excessive even for addicted people) and see where it would cause a real problem, but not allowing at all for 9 straight hours because they could smell like they smoked is where we part ways.


I am going to start something here that is going to piss many of you off. Period. First of all, your statement is idiotic. Yes I said that!!! Your statement is idiotic. A shift can be 4 hours, or 2 or whatever the manager scheduled. Smoking is a bad habit, one of many types of bad habits, it does not make bad people or employees, but it does show a lack of personal ethics and character. For those of you out there who smoke, YES you have a weakness and a character flaw from that weakness. You probably started smoking because of peer pressure, or thought it was the "cool" thing to do. You just didn't wake up one day and say to yourself,, "Gee, if I start smoking, I can get a good job". Like it or not, and I advise those who have self destructive habits to take a very good look in the mirror and see what your bad choices have caused you throughout your life. NOW I AM PREACHING!! This entire thread was not about smoking or not smoking and Alan and you Paradigm saw ONLY what you wanted to see. Yes I am now seriously furious and for me to respond with this type of text is way far from my personal comfort zone. But, I see people like you who have your blinders on about what is true, and it makes my blood boil!!! You twist words, just like a filthy rotten lawyer to fit your own views. (Yes take THAT Jim Harrington, you piss me off too) Ya like that??? You just lowered me to your level!!!

Do ya get it yet???? STOP WITH THE SMOKING/NON SMOKING CRAP!!

Calm down, Mr. Scott! Calm down. There are far more important issues in this world than how one feels about the smoking situation. You are a good man and don't need to get your blood pressure all rowed up, so calm down.

With that said, I think you should open up a place dedicated to karaoke. Similar to Chartbuster's Karaoke Kafe. Karaoke 7 days a week. Have a stage like American Idol. The best audio/visual experience. There will be nothing like it around.

Offer a limited menu, but common food that everyone loves like burgers, pizza. Forget this specialty sh*t. If I was doing a bar, it would be done in this concept. With a totally unique theme and interior. A place unlike any other that will make people come back night after night, week after week. Typical bars are a dime a dozen. You need to set yourself apart from the rest. This is how I would do it.

One more thing. There is a difference between a dedicated Karaoke Bar offering the ultimate audio/visual experience that truly makes your guests feel like a star than a bar that does karaoke 7 nights a week.

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MrScott, you're betraying a few traits that don't bode well for you in your possible new life path.

One of them is deciding you should decide who is 'weak' or worthy, and teaching any of them a lesson, when it has largely nothing to do with your actual business.

Another is deciding that trivial matters that seem to disproportionately affect you emotionally will also have a similar effect on your potential customers. In other words, your customers aren't you.

The third is your thin skin. No one here has said anything remotely offensive or insulting to you, and you're going sort of ballistic, and shouting, and calling people 'idiotic', saying you're 'pissed off', comparing people who disagree with you to 'filthy rotten lawyers', and typing in all caps.

I've been in the bar business for going on 18 years. We're pretty small-time, but we manage about 35 employees and deal with thousands of customers. I guarantee you that if you go to ground over the mild disagreement you've encountered in this thread, which has been polite (other than your contributions), you won't last a month dealing with actual employees, vendors and customers in the bar business. I've gotten pretty damn mad over the years, but I'd like to think I've picked my spots better than this, at least most of the time.

If you want to teach people not to smoke, open a (@$%&#!) clinic. You might run this bar into the ground faster than the drunk bartender.


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CafeBar wrote:
MrScott, you're betraying a few traits that don't bode well for you in your possible new life path.

One of them is deciding you should decide who is 'weak' or worthy, and teaching any of them a lesson, when it has largely nothing to do with your actual business.

Another is deciding that trivial matters that seem to disproportionately affect you emotionally will also have a similar effect on your potential customers. In other words, your customers aren't you.

The third is your thin skin. No one here has said anything remotely offensive or insulting to you, and you're going sort of ballistic, and shouting, and calling people 'idiotic', saying you're 'pissed off', comparing people who disagree with you to 'filthy rotten lawyers', and typing in all caps.

I've been in the bar business for going on 18 years. We're pretty small-time, but we manage about 35 employees and deal with thousands of customers. I guarantee you that if you go to ground over the mild disagreement you've encountered in this thread, which has been polite (other than your contributions), you won't last a month dealing with actual employees, vendors and customers in the bar business. I've gotten pretty damn mad over the years, but I'd like to think I've picked my spots better than this, at least most of the time.

If you want to teach people not to smoke, open a <span style=font-size:10px><i>(@$%&#!)</i></span> clinic. You might run this bar into the ground faster than the drunk bartender.


I got my point across didn't I? It's sort of like having a room full of teenagers who constantly ask the same question over and over again. Sooner or later a person will lay down the law. Go back and count how many times people kept saying things about smoking and how many times I said the thread isn't about smoking. I can agree to disagree just fine, but please stop pushing something that it isn't. I truly am a patient trainer and person, but I do have my point where I will either lay it out like I see it, fire someone or ground the teenager. For your information, from early on I had said, I could be proven wrong about my viewpoint and might be willing to concede a smoke break.

I know you are trying your best to offer good advice,,,, so, I thank you for that.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:39 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
Calm down, Mr. Scott! Calm down. There are far more important issues in this world than how one feels about the smoking situation. You are a good man and don't need to get your blood pressure all rowed up, so calm down.

With that said, I think you should open up a place dedicated to karaoke. Similar to Chartbuster's Karaoke Kafe. Karaoke 7 days a week. Have a stage like American Idol. The best audio/visual experience. There will be nothing like it around.

Offer a limited menu, but common food that everyone loves like burgers, pizza. Forget this specialty sh*t. If I was doing a bar, it would be done in this concept. With a totally unique theme and interior. A place unlike any other that will make people come back night after night, week after week. Typical bars are a dime a dozen. You need to set yourself apart from the rest. This is how I would do it.

One more thing. There is a difference between a dedicated Karaoke Bar offering the ultimate audio/visual experience that truly makes your guests feel like a star than a bar that does karaoke 7 nights a week.


Might be a good idea,,, somewhere else, just not here. Like I had said in an earlier post, karaoke is slowly becoming extinct around this state. I don't think it will fully disappear, but it definitely won't look like it does now, or did 10 years ago. Someone hit the nail on the head when they said that karaoke is now only seen in the dive bars and shove it in a corner with the used dish towels. That pretty much describes what karaoke looks like now. But wouldn't it be awesome to see a club that really did a bang up job with fantastic stage, lighting and sound....plus an audience that actually listens and gets involved... THAT would be fun.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:50 am 
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I'm one of the 'dive bars' that has karaoke, and I also have some pretty nice live music. There's definitely a snobby attitude in some circles about karaoke, which I disagree with, but I don't think it's really fading away. It's turned into a low-margin business because of the piracy, not much different from recorded music--people want it but they don't want to pay for it. If they don't crack down on piracy, it will be harder and harder to find quality backing tracks because there's less incentive to create them.

Ironically, I think karaoke itself is on the rise. When I started doing it in the early 2000s no one else in town had it, and it was viewed as a bygone relic. Now it's all over the place. I think 'Carpool Karaoke' on James Corden is reviving interest, too. It's turned into something everyone wants but it's hard to monetize, which is the weakness in the business.

I've always had a great opinion of karaoke, because I think music should be something you do, not just something you consume. Karaoke is one of the best paths to that for many people.

Maybe we should all get a car seat and a steering wheel from the local wrecking yard and promote 'carpool karaoke'. The hotshots like Chris Avis and Lonman would probably throw in a green screen.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:22 am 
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CafeBar wrote:
I'm one of the 'dive bars' that has karaoke, and I also have some pretty nice live music. There's definitely a snobby attitude in some circles about karaoke, which I disagree with, but I don't think it's really fading away. It's turned into a low-margin business because of the piracy, not much different from recorded music--people want it but they don't want to pay for it. If they don't crack down on piracy, it will be harder and harder to find quality backing tracks because there's less incentive to create them.

Ironically, I think karaoke itself is on the rise. When I started doing it in the early 2000s no one else in town had it, and it was viewed as a bygone relic. Now it's all over the place. I think 'Carpool Karaoke' on James Corden is reviving interest, too. It's turned into something everyone wants but it's hard to monetize, which is the weakness in the business.

I've always had a great opinion of karaoke, because I think music should be something you do, not just something you consume. Karaoke is one of the best paths to that for many people.

Maybe we should all get a car seat and a steering wheel from the local wrecking yard and promote 'carpool karaoke'. The hotshots like Chris Avis and Lonman would probably throw in a green screen.



8) I have always felt that karaoke is a form of art, it brings out the need in people to create. All of us have some desire to do something artistic, paint, play an instrument, write, teach, to be an influence on the world we live in. Some of us have more talent than others, but still we want to be able to do something in the world of art. The very basis of karaoke goes back to our pioneer roots, where ordinary people got together played instruments, sang, and danced there was no fancy electrical devices then. People back in the day were very creative as far as manufacturing their own entertainment. Even though I ran my karaoke service as a business, I always considered it promoting art, and that my customers were my patrons, supporting the art of karaoke. Yes there is an art to it, just like being able to bring everything together to do a successful show is also an art. I still feel that the target market for karaoke is still the baby boomers and will be for the next 10 to 15 years. My kids think it is silly, but then again some day they will be old and looking for something to do.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:57 pm 
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Krisko wrote:
If I owned a bar... it would be a singers dream. I would invest in big stage sound and lights to create an environment that made the singer feel like they'd be putting on a concert every time.


Yeah, I'm with ya. My fantasy Karaoke Bar is similar to your idea but with a twist. It's similar with regard to an upscale experience, posh even, with high quality commercial equipment supporting a high end nightclub. Just as you said, it would be a club/concert venue experience. But in this case the stakes would be a lot higher.

This would be "Front the Band" where the band is a pro live band. Unlike Karaoke where the singer chooses the song, the band chooses the songs as they are responsible for setting the party mood in the club. Oh, it get's more challenging than that. As any successful performer will tell you, it's not about you, it's about the audience. It's their party, not yours. Your job is to keep them on the dance floor having a good time, to keep the party going.

This is Serious Karaoke -- amateur all the way to celebrity pro -- not the place for drunken interpretations of "Sweet Child of Mine". You better have some swagger and stage presence in addition to a killer voice because here the audience calls the shots. They can boo you off the stage before you even open your mouth. But there is also the possibility that you absolutely slay them and if that happens they won't let you off the stage. In that case YOU HAVE to sing an encore, but this time you get to decide what song to sing. Two song limit to ensure that everybody gets a shot and you don't wind up with some celebrity hogging the spotlight all night. But you do want celebrities. That's half the draw.

I wouldn't limit it to just singing either. At a minimum you have to front the band, but if you wanted to play an instrument also, knock yourself out. You could even replace the entire band with your own band but you have to use house gear, which of course would be killer gear.

Of course you would have to have all sorts of processes and filler protocols to completely eliminate down time and dead air between songs. Pro experience from the first act to closing time.

Once a year contests that draw recording artist scouts perhaps? Black and white autographed head shots of singers who turned pro would cover the lobby and aisle walls.

Have a chain of them: LA, New York, Miami.

Once that reached its zenith, I'd sell it for a fortune and then open up a divey karaoke bar in every small town around the world and there would be a one-rule sign above the entrance that read "No Beautiful People".


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:03 am 
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I always heard that your girlfriends dad should own the bar.. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:47 pm 
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Wait a minute... this thread is how old? LOL!!!

Good thing I missed this back in the day, as the early part of the discussion would have made my blood seethe.

But as to Cseeger's new post, let me get this straight. You want to open a posh karaoke bar to make lots of money with which to open a chain of seedy dive karaoke bars?

Why not skip the middle step, and just start out with a couple dive bars if that's the ultimate goal?

Having had some small experience at both ends of the scale, a posh karaoke experience draws a very different clientele than "live band karaoke", which is the closest thing to what I think you're describing. Not that a few people don't move through both worlds, but the operative word there is "few" -- the audience for that combination might be too small to support the endeavor.

Of course a club with a resident, 6 night a week karaoke BAND would put a lot of musician's to work, so I'd be all for it. Whether the market could support that depends on the city -- it would pretty much have to be in a large urban area to stand a chance.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:17 pm 
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Elementary Penguin wrote:
Why not skip the middle step, and just start out with a couple dive bars if that's the ultimate goal?


Nah, the ultimate goal is to be the ruler of the planet. The Karaoke thing is just to amuse myself before then.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:54 am 
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if i owned a bar, i would totally KJ it myself.

however, on probably every night at a certain time like 8pm until close, i'd have an "open-mic" DJ policy. where any random DJ from anywhere, by any definition of a DJ, good or bad can play a half-hour set? they wouldn't get paid.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:40 pm 
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I agree with the no smoking...
As far as the karaoke DJ...NO Drinking period.....no cell phone while on the floor ( I hate going into a place of business and seeing people on there cell phones )..as far as spouses..as long as they are there as a singer fine but leave the dj alone


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