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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:02 pm 
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Robin Dean wrote:
Alan B wrote:
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The Bose L1's, when set up correctly, have better sound quality than 99% of what's used now in karaoke land.

You must be living in La La Land. I'm sure even Lonman with his technical expertise would disagree with that statement.

So, I take it you only use custom installed Renkus-Heinz systems at your gigs?


No I don't and probably never will.

**One more thing**

I am not an expert. And I am not just bashing Bose because I have nothing better to do. I am speaking from experience. Both personal and working in retail audio stores. What I have stated about Bose is true. If you don't believe me, just do a search and read all of negative feedback from thousands of people who bought into Bose. Did you read the CNET article I linked to above?

Better yet, go out and buy the best Bose home system they offer, then buy a traditional home system from a quality manufacturer like Klipsch, Polk Audio, Paradigm, etc. Then take them both apart. Compare wiring, crossovers, drivers (woofers, tweeters) etc between the Bose and one of the reputable brands. Then come back and tell me you still think Bose is so great. You will be shocked at what you'll find. Remember they use garbage and use gizmos to try to manipulate the sound so it sounds decent. A good brand doesn't have to do that. Anyway, I have done the exact thing I suggested above. Where I come from (the east coast) you will never see Bose sold at any reputable high end audio store. I am valid in what I speak of. But don't listen to me or the thousands of others who agree with me, prove it to yourself. Go on...

Why is it that so many of you here bash Behringer? Even Lonnie has stated his experience with the Guitar Center and the rate of returns they have taken in. He doesn't like them because like so many of you, think that they're crap. Yet, you all believe him to be credible. You listen to what he's saying!

Yet, when I speak of Bose in the same way, you think I'm being hateful and bashing them for whatever reason. I know owners of these systems don't want to hear anything bad about their system but face the facts. Their is a reason for this. The way I speak about Bose is no different than the way Lonnie speaks about Behringer.

Bottom line, like it or not... Bose sucks!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:24 pm 
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I agree that Bose sucked for a long while. Among sound techs the joke was "no highs, no lows, must be Bose." They have improved greatly in recent years, particularly with their foray into live sound.

I also agree that Behringer sucked for years. They started out great, then they started losing ground and using cheap components to compensate for the tax rates that were sucking their profits (from my understanding), and that's where they stayed for several years. It's only the past five years, give or take a year, that they have started making (IMO) quality sound equipment again, and that's due in large part because of Uli Behringer's decision to move the company to Philippines under the holding company The Music Group and their acquisition of some quality names like Turbosound, Midas, and Klark Teknik while retaining many of the employees who designed and built those products.

Having said that, I recently replaced every speaker, sub, and monitor in my show with a much cheaper-than-Bose, and in my opinion better sounding Turbosound iNSPIRE iP2000. My husband stole it from me to try out during a band gig as a group monitor. We both have fallen in love with this speaker, and we've ordered two more for his use as mains in his smaller- and mid-sized venues. A great deal going on with them still at $799, though they're backordered for now.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/IP2000

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Last edited by POETS on Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:07 am 
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POETSkaraoke wrote:
They have improved greatly in recent years, particularly with their foray into live sound.


That's a matter of opinion.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:24 pm 
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Robin Dean wrote:
The OP spoke of portability. Not sure what comes close to the BOSE pro line stuff in that regard.


Agree 100%. If ease of setup is paramount, you wont find anything easier.

Robin Dean wrote:
The Bose L1's, when set up correctly, have better sound quality than 99% of what's used now in karaoke land.


This is where we differ. In saying this you are also bashing every major night club and band in the country today. I just got back from the NAB in Las Vegas. Not one club or band, including Elton John at Caesars was using Bose (EJ was awesome BTW!). Why not? After all they are 99% better than a conventional PA, right? ;)

Now, if you take two Karaoke guys who know NOTHING about how to setup and run a PA system, the guy with the Bose system is going to sound better! Why? I believe it is because they are fairly dummy proof and require less sound reinforcement knowledge. Essentially, you have to try a lot harder to screw them up.

Look, there is nothing magical about a Bose system. They don't have some super secret technology that the rest of the world doesnt have. Are they easy to transport? Yes. Do they sound good? Yes. Are they 99% better than a conventional system for much less $$$? No. At the end of the day we are all just moving air.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:56 pm 
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JimHarrington wrote:
BigJer wrote:
I know I got the cheaper one, so maybe I got confused, but the elx 12 are $299 now at zzounds now

The zlx are $399 at zzounds.

I do think you're right that the zlxs were the cheaper one and that sounds more like what I recall. The price inversion is confusing for me. Sorry, I do think I got my models inverted.

Ooh and zzounds is offering a rebate for free covers!!!


ELX and ZLX are generally the same price for passives. For the powered version, the ELX is considerably more expensive.

WOW, Lawyer turned equipment guru.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:52 am 
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Not at all. But I have been working on equipment pricing for our new venture, SCE. One of our affiliated companies is becoming an EV dealer (which is one way we're able to access preferred pricing for our PRIME members).


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:52 am 
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Well he's correct on that point for sure.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:41 am 
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So do you like the EV's, Jim?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:01 am 
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Anybody hear of Pat Matheny? See what he says about Bose and the stick >

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CEozzi-ng8

I totally agree. The sonics for an enclosed venue are unmatched. I agree with him about cramming too much stuff in a couple of speakers.

I have really accomplished singers and they sing around. I have had so many tell me with a great big grin (during their song) that they LOVE my system. They can't believe how they are able to hear themselves so easily and clearly. I also am using a Bose T1 ToneMatch Engine. The effects are studio quality. Personally, when I sing at host's shows with other systems (and I include All of them) the difference is so apparent to my ears that it makes me proud of mine and my abilities to get a concert arena-like sound into a room the size of a bar. Two Bose L1's connected are amazing!

That being said, yes, there can be problems with patrons wanting to lean on the tower and that definitely should be a consideration with placement in a venue. Plus, I have signs attached to my tower that still get overlooked.

I should add that after hearing my set up a couple other hosts have moved to Bose sticks. My particular sticks are Bose L1 Classics' which are the 1st ones made. They have been played 1,000s of times without any incidents and still going strong.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:23 am 
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dvdgdry wrote:
I have really accomplished singers and they sing around. I have had so many tell me with a great big grin (during their song) that they LOVE my system. They can't believe how they are able to hear themselves so easily and clearly. I also am using a Bose T1 ToneMatch Engine. The effects are studio quality. Personally, when I sing at host's shows with other systems (and I include All of them) the difference is so apparent to my ears that it makes me proud of mine and my abilities to get a concert-like sound into a room the size of a bar. Two Bose L1's connected are amazing!
...
I should add that after hearing my set up a couple other hosts have moved to Bose sticks. My particular sticks are Bose L1 Classics' which are the 1st ones made. They have been played 1,000s of times without any incidents and still going strong.


This has been my experience as well. I got my Turbosound iNSPIRE iP2000 after hearing a Bose L1 in a very oddly shaped venue where I do a show once a month. The clarity and the throw impressed the hell out of me, particularly considering how awful the room's layout is for sound distribution. Three professional musicians in the past three weeks since I got them have told me how much they love the sound of these over point-source speakers. Full disclosure: One of those guys is my husband who has performed with Jan & Dean, Garry Lewis, The Outlaws, Big Engine, Sonny Geraci, and Marie Osmond, to name a few. One is the front man/guitarist/lead vocalist for the band Fork In The Road. One is a semi-retired road musician for whose ears I have great respect and admiration...(I'm thinking of setting up an altar to them).

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:27 am 
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Bazza wrote:
Now, if you take two Karaoke guys who know NOTHING about how to setup and run a PA system, the guy with the Bose system is going to sound better! Why? I believe it is because they are fairly dummy proof and require less sound reinforcement knowledge. Essentially, you have to try a lot harder to screw them up.


Based on what my ears have heard, most karaoke providers have poor to very poor sound quality. So, as I said, an L1 system would sound better out of the box than 99% of what I've heard in the bars and clubs.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:44 am 
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BigJer wrote:
So do you like the EV's, Jim?


I don't know enough about sound to have an opinion.

I have a musician's ear (a decade of vocal training, plus I play piano and bass a little bit), so I can tell when something's right or not right. But as far as setting up sound, or audio engineering, I prefer to rely on people who know what they're doing.

EV does have a great reputation, and my operations manager loves them, so that's good enough for me. We used a pair of 12" powered ZLXs for our booth at MBLV, and I thought they sounded great.

As for Bose... To my ear, Bose equipment, whether home equipment, headphones, or pro sound, has always sounded too bright to me. After a four-hour show, I expect my ears would be extremely tired unless the system were set up to mitigate that. But if you can make them work, great.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:35 pm 
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Remember, in order for the Bose systems to sound halfway decent, you need the optional Tonematch module. Another $500. Try using the system without it. You won't be able to. Why? Because like I said, Bose has always relied on "gizmos" to manipulate the sound. Secondly, while everyone else uses polypropylene drivers, and better materials, Bose has always cheapened out and used paper and plastic. And then charge you an astronomical price for it.

There is no doubt that Bose is a marketing genius. They spend more money on this than any other manufacturer. It's a mind game in which people get sucked it. But again, if folks want to pay them the over inflated prices for inferior components used in their systems, then I guess that's your business.

To all those who use this system and like it, that's great. The concept is fine. I'm not complaining about that. Just that you're paying a lot of money and getting very little in terms of a quality product in return. And that's what Bose is all about.

I will continue to use my conventional system in which I continuously receive compliments from both customers and owners. And I will laugh because I know that at only a fraction of the price of a Bose system, I got a quality system made with quality components.

When Bose first introduced their 3 piece sat/sub system using only 2 speaker cubes in a 3 inch enclosures, they were marketed as the greatest thing ever. With the best sound. They cost only $50 to make but sold for $1000.

Do you really believe they were better than, Martin Logan, KEF, Acoustic Research, Boston Acoustics, Mirage, Paradigm or any of the many other brands considered to be high end at the time?

OK folks. I'm done with this. Keep the illusion going. And buy into the "spend more, get less" philosophy that is Bose. After all, that is what makes them great!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:36 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
OK folks. I'm done with this.

Promise Alan? :D

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:25 pm 
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Since Alan B says he is done with this forum, I want to point out that he is wrong that a Bose L1 needs a T1 ToneMatch Engine for a mixer. It does not.

I have a KJ friend who has been doing KJ since I first met him in 1996. I, for one, consider him the best DJ/KJ in this metroplex. After hearing my setup 4 years ago he went out and bought 2 Bose compacts. He has now gone to a Bose L1 1s with a B2. He does not run a T1 mixer, instead a Mackie ProFX12 and it still sounds better than all the other hosts equipment around here. Singing on his is quite comparable to mine though I prefer what I am able to do with a T1. I just wish the T1 did not rely so much on a few pots to do everything. The same pots share work with every effect for all channels, though that is why it is so compact.

The Bose can be quite bright, but EQ is on every mixer. Depends on whether you are an attentive host or a lazy host.

The proof is in the pudding and the singers are pudding for me. They are the ones impressed with my sound over other's sound and that is all that matters to me.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:06 pm 
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People who are willing to over pay for something will defend their purchase to the death. It's just human nature. No one wants to admit that they were taken to the cleaners.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:31 am 
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dvdgdry wrote:
Since Alan B says he is done with this forum,
He didn't say he was done with this forum, just the delusional thread ;)
I agree, I have not heard ONE Bose stick system that I've thought sounded worth the cost. And yes I know it's ALL (6 to date now) the systems I've heard NOBODY knew how to run it correctly, including the Bose rep that I demo'd in my show for 1 week.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:31 am 
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I'd go with the Yorkville EXM400 at half the price and Yorkville's excellent sound and quality.

http://yorkville.com/loudspeakers/elite/product/exm400/

https://www.long-mcquade.com/58479/Pro_ ... act_Pa.htm

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:52 am 
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Karaoke Croaker wrote:
People who are willing to over pay for something will defend their purchase to the death. It's just human nature. No one wants to admit that they were taken to the cleaners.

How is anyone "taken to the cleaners" if they chose what they wanted with their own money?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:34 pm 
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Robin Dean wrote:
Karaoke Croaker wrote:
People who are willing to over pay for something will defend their purchase to the death. It's just human nature. No one wants to admit that they were taken to the cleaners.

How is anyone "taken to the cleaners" if they chose what they wanted with their own money?
They're not. If they want to spend $2300 for the "privilege" of the Bose name (which in my opinion is an embarrassment), then so be it. I believe P. T. Barnum said it best: there's a sucker born every minute.

**Please Note**

I am just speaking in general terms and not criticizing anyone on this forum who has purchased, uses, and likes Bose products.

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Last edited by Alan B on Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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