Karaoke Forums

Hi,

A couple of questions on handling the rotation:

I will be using song slips, is there a good way to keep track of the rotation, making sure you stay in order? What I mean is should I write down the order of the singers and then add people to the bottom of my list as they enter the rotation?

Can you guys share your methods? Thanks!

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Patrick
Twinbrook Sound
Waltham, MA

I always use a written list on a tablet in addition to the slips. That way if someone runs out of songs, then later submits more they can be placed back into the rotation in the same spot they previously occupied. It seems to work better as you can have song slips with room for 3 or 4 songs on them, rather than the singers having to submit a new slip for each song, and still have no problem keeping them straight. The other thing using the written list does for you is gives ya a record of who was there when as far as tracking your followers and how many singers you had at your shows.

I tend to do something a little different than most on this site. I usually try to mix it up with old singer, new singer, old, new, etc. Also, as the night gets busier, since I usually allow 2 songs per slip, I will say "If you've sang once, you get 1 , and if you're new, you still get to do 2"

Of course it all becomes null and void on a crazy night......

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Let's Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

Had a computer program designed for rotation management. So all singers get entered & they can see where they are, approx wait time based on 4 min. per song, how long it was since they sang last & what time new singers were entered. Works out great. I haven't updated my database in it for awhile, but it will also display all the songs everyone are singing so you can see if someone already has a song you may want to sing. New singers get inserted usually 1 old 1 new. I will cut the first round off at about 15 & start over inserting new singers 1 new 1 old. If I still have a ton of new singers, then I go 2 new 1 old. The way I look at it is the singers will be able to sing again that have been there without having to wait an extra amount of time if I hadn't cut the rotation at an hour.

Manual way. Basically the same way but with slips. I have a counter or table big enough to lay them out. Once they sang, I fold the corner of their slip (unless they gave me another when they came up) to keep their spot. Once they give me a new one, then discard (or give it back to them, some like to keep their slips) & insert new slip in old slip place. Insert new singers same way as described above.
Been running this way since 94 & have never had any "major" complaints about it. You are ALWAYS going to get the proverbial whiner with the familiar saying, "WHEN AM I UP NEXT?", no matter HOW you do your rotation. You are never going to please everyone. Find out what works for you & stay with it, don't vary or change it for anyone - at least on a particular night. If you need to change the way you do things, do it the next night - live & learn!! but stay consistant for the night at hand.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

As the slips come in, Iwrite the singers names down on a separate paper on the side. That way I can keep track of how the rotation is going to go. On busy nights, I'm pretty firm on my "sing one, bring one" policy, but am more lax on slower nights. New singers are always added to the end of the rotation that is underway. Inserting them in the middle seems unfair to me, because the people who were there early might have done so to get in that extra song per night.

If a singer misses his/her spot in the rotation by not turning in a slip, I will reinsert them in their normal spot in the NEXT rotation. I used to just tack them on to the end, but it looked ugly when they were stuck on the end of one rotation and then sang third (their USUAL spot) in the next.

As for song slips, I use post it notes and they work great. I had a self-inking stamp made with all the pertinent info on it, and sometimes when I'm just sitting around watching tv (usually during the NASCAR race) I'll sit and stamp song slips. I print them so the gummed edge is at the bottom. That way when the singers pull them off the pad, they stand up perfectly for me to read them easily!

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Spreading the karaoke gospel

It is & it isn't. Look at it in the sense that if I have 15 singers in the first round & i'm not at the end yet, get 2 new singers in, should I put them at the end making the rotation now 17, now I get a little closer to the end & get 5 new singers. Should they go at the end making it now 22 singers? By mixing them in with the old, the people that already sang are now getting their 2nd chance, while the new singers are getting their first chance. Everyone is still going to have to wait a finite amount of time, but the singers that HAVE been there are already getting another chance or their turn will come up shortly. The earlier you get there, the more chances there are to sing. Everyone at my show knows they are going to get at least 1 chance to sing. Some obviously get more, if I don't have time, then they may not get any.

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With the new singers, it just depends on the night and how busy it is. If it's a short rotation they just get tacked onto the end. If it's a long rotation though, and I've already been through it at least once, I'll do the new singer, couple old ones, new one, etc. Or, if there's a bunch of new ones I'll do one old, one new and alternate every other one. It's something you will need to play by ear so as to treat everyone fair. I don't like to have people that have been there supporting you see a new singer come in and get up right away, but then again I don't want them to have to wait for an unreasonable length of time either. It just needs to be fair to everyone. But once you're into the rotation - that's where you stay. A new singer doesn't get up right away, then get placed into a different spot in the rotation.

I do it very similar to what Lonman describes. No computer, but a stack of slips. Sing one and return to the bottom. Try to mix in new singers relatively soon, if everyone's already been through it, while maintaining progress for the existing lineup. Haven't had any problems and everyone seems to be satisfied with the fairness. The wait can often look worse than it is since some people will turn in a bunch of slips at once. I explain this to a new singer who gags at the site of the stack. I suppose I could remove the multiples and just pick from them as the singer's spot comes up. But this works for me and I'd probably screw that up.

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Sounds Great! Entertainment
Bartlett, Illinois

Icenine, no matter which style you use for your rotation, just make sure it is consistant.

The bottom line seems to be fairness and I am in agreement with that. Right now it seems like it is going to hard to juggle the rotation and keep everything straight. But, just like anything else, once I get a few shows under my belt, it will probably seems easy.

I think I will use a separate sheet to write in who actually sings. I like the idea of being able to analyze this data afterwards to see if I can improve my service. I also like your idea, Ron, of making slips that hold more than one song. I just might do that!

Thanks again!

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Patrick
Twinbrook Sound
Waltham, MA

Writing down who sings can be a good idea, especially when starting out, particularly if you get some singers that are apt to challenge your rotation. I've seen this happen to new KJs.

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Sounds Great! Entertainment
Bartlett, Illinois

Not only that, Marty, But I really want to make it a point to remember my regulars -- and everyone for that matter -- names and the songs they like to sing, level of effects, etc. I think this is a huge part of this business (and ANY business). People appreciate it!

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Patrick
Twinbrook Sound
Waltham, MA

I keep track of who sings by "spiking" my song slips after they are played (Thanks to someone who made that suggestion somewhere here or at the other place!) That way you can also very easily back up and show someone the rotation because they are right there in the order that they were played!

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Spreading the karaoke gospel

Hey icenine,

Glad to see that you are getting close and are asking a lot of good questions. I commend all of our fellow KJ's for sharing their knowlege.

In my case my wife Margie runs the rotation and I run the sound.

1. Margie always writes down the list of singers.
2. We print our own slips w/company name and logo.
3. One slip per song w/Your Name...Song Title....Song Number

I know this costs more but that is the way we run our business.

AS for the ROTATION...

First come, first serve. A singer usually knows who they followed and if there is a different singer ahead they might think that you skipped them.

Margie allows singers to turn in multiple slips. I do not agree with her on this because some keep wanting to change their song. Margie accomodates them (a lot of extra work). My suggestion is to have the singer turn in their next song when they get up to sing.

Short rotations of 15 - 20 are not too much of an issue. We have had as many as 35 in the first rotation and a total of 44 for the night. We are lucky to get thru 2 rotations by 2 am (our normal hours are 9 - 1). Because there are so many, some will feel that you have missed them.

One other thing to be aware of is those rare individuals or groups that turn songs in under different names. I also do not allow anyone in the bar to disrespect a singer.

One final suggestion is to treat everyone equally, be patient, and have a good time.

Cort
MC Entertainment

I think most have covered the rotations based on a single singer , but you should be prepared for the DUETS or GROUP singers who think if there are 4 singers in that group they get to sing 4 songs in a row because obviously the first song was JIMMYS and the second song was MARTY's and when is MY SONG goonna be up?

Rotations: Like many I keep a little pad on the side and write down names as the rquest slips come in and cross out names as people leave and once the rotation gets to be big enough I'll insert new comers or LATE COMERS by then into the rotation. One trick Ive done lately is write the TIME down on the slips when it is handed in . It allows me to keep track of how long someone is waiting . I'll on occasion "mess" with the rotation slightly if the songs being sung are toooo slow and sad If I see a song that is UPBEAT I'll move it up one or 2 singers just to wake the crowd up ....I don't think that's wrong ?

If you have a steady GIG try keeping your song slips and hand them out the following week to the singers who return -TALK ABOUT WINNING IVER YOU SINGERS BIG PLUS IN MY BOOK ...Good LUck

One of the side benefits of having a separate list for your rotation on paper is that if all you have is your song slips, ya never know who or when or how, but it will happen that a breeze or person (or yourself) will accidently mess up your stack. It allows you to easily get the slips back in the proper order. It will happen sooner or later.

Cort, do you print key change info on your slips? This is something I see used very rarely. Since I have all of the karaoke equipment now I have been using it pretty frequently. I think I am going to explain at the beginning of each night that you can bring the song up a little if you can't quite reach a note in the song, and you can bring the song down a bit if the opposite is true. I realize that you don't want to bring the key up or down any more than 3 half-steps. Otherwise, the backing track can sound pretty weird.

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Patrick
Twinbrook Sound
Waltham, MA

Ice , I think you will find regarding "key changes" that the "SINGERS" in the crowd will already know what changes they want and will ask themselves...... Others you might confuse annoucing you can change the key up and down...Somepeople might have you changing the key 1/4 through the song a few times ..

I know what you mean, Jam. I am going to try and make it as simple as possible to understand. But I think it is important to let some of the less experienced singers in on the secret. It might cause them to enjoy themsleves more.

I will make sure to point out that key changes DO NOT happen mid-song!!

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Patrick
Twinbrook Sound
Waltham, MA

I list key up/down spaces. Most singers will know & use that space. If they ask what they mean I do a quick explanation & said if you've never had to change the key, you probably don't need to worry about it.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!