Karaoke Forums

Not to be a wise guy or anything, but I checked out that site and do have some advise for ya. Personally, I wouldn't buy it. As much as I badmouth places like Radio Shack, I'd buy one of their's before getting that one you cited. At least that way you know what you're getting. I wouldn't want to waste my money, and to be perfectly honest, $100 for a dual UHF system must have something wrong with it. Either the mic's won't last, or the quality won't be there, or something. But I've always said you get what you pay for, and for that price it ain't gonna be much. If its strictly for home use I'd rather go with a good VHF than a cheap UHF that I'll probably never be happy with. Just an opinion.

You may very well be correct, in fact, you probably are. On the other hand I've got to consider a few other things I know to be true.

First, many "name brand" cordless mics are made in China now days.

Second, it only costs a fraction of what we are charged in the states to produce them over there.

Third, this particular company apparently has a loyal following in Europe - particularly Germany - where they are willing to spend around $350 and more. I'm semi-fluent in German and have found ample evidence that they are far from junk in the eyes of the folks that posted their opinions. My wife is from Japan and there are Japanese posts saying the same. To be fair I'll add that there were a few that didn't seem to be totally impressed.

Fourth, this company has no "official" presense in this country yet which explains the entry-level price if the unit turns out to be of good quality. In fact, they could continue to sell at that price even if the quality is world class and still make a profit. Manufacturing costs in China are just that cheap.

So, what does it mean? Well I still don't know for sure. That's why I took the guy up on his 30-day money-back guarantee. I'd like to follow up with a report about how well these things work after I've had them for a while. (I'm planning on having a friend that works at Disney Studios take them to work with him). But, frankly, although I appreciate the honest advice I've gotten, I don't really feel welcome. I'm just not use to the needless sensorship here.

dubby,
I work in live pro audio, I deal with World Class artists and thier engineers on a frequent basis. I did not see your post nor the brand or even get a chance to research the product. I feel your posts were quite unfair to ALL here because there is 2 highly expierenced live engineers on this site as members. I don't know you and after your posts i would like to respect you based on your opinion .. but Talking like that I don't know if I can.

The rules of this board are for everybody.. Even I have to follow them.

They are tough but they are fair.. I honestly wish I could post 100 links a day, but I have a website to do that.

Hey, just hang in I'm connected too. but nobody cares.. they don't.
Just have fun and you may learn something if ya hang around.

_________________
Brian D.
(BHB)

Well, I'm not sure how to go about addressing the last comment. You still seem to think I'm selling something and tried to post a link. Maybe just ask you to re-read the thread (what there is left of it). I'm not selling anything as I'm quite content with my present occupation, I never posted a link and I certainly mean no disrespect to any of the helpfull folks here. I had thought that's what I said.

Very often I'm on the other side of this issue giving freely of what I know to others on computer hardware, Voice Over IP (VOIP), and programming message boards. The last thing I would ever want to do is be ungratefull for receiving expert advice in areas in which my knowledge is lacking.

So far, the only problem I have is where a moderator can delete a post without so much as a notice that it has been edited. I've never seen a message board where a post can be attributed to one person after having been altered by another. How can that be ok? Where I come from that just simply isn't done. In fact, doing that might even be illegal regardless of who owns the forum (ok, maybe not illegal but certainly guilty of poor judgement). You can't knowingly attribute a post to someone when it has been altered by someone else without noting that the text was altered. Do the moderators have a right to "moderate"? Yes. Should their edits be made known? Yes, they must in order to preserve the integrity of the forum. To date I've had one post deleted and another post edited twice. What you are reading right now could very well have been edited without your knowledge. You will never know what the original post that started all this was. Only I and the one who deleted it does. Do you really think I would make this big a deal about it if I really were trying to sell something? I've seen people try to get away with hawking something on a forum and when they get called on it they just mysteriously disappear. I'm not about to disappear (at least not fot that reason) because I really, truely want to build the best system for the least amount of money possible. What can I say, I'm a natural born tight-wad but even I have standards.

Someone obviously misunderstood my post and simply deleted it. Then they compounded that error by telling someone else some things about the post that were not true (which, I suppose, is why you said what you did). Ironic how the original post is gone but the erroneous retelling and criticism of it remains. Gratefully, the powers that be have left my restatement of the post which is pretty close to the original. I have no idea if the post deletion was agenda driven or if it was just late and they were sleepy, I've made my share of mistakes. What I do know is that a mistake was made and it has yet to be owned up to. I don't think that getting an "oops, I goofed" is too much to ask. I'm at a loss as to why that would make me the object of your doubt.

I don't normally answer items in this manner as I'm very easy going. But I think I'll make a one-time exception for Dubby. You asked a question, I gave you an honest opinion. The way you came back with your response to my opinion, I'll say this.

If you already had your mind made up, and all the "facts" and info you responded with, what are you doing wasting our time with your questions that you don't care about to begin with? Ya come up on a web site posting info that appears to exceed the established rules, complain when it gets edited, then when someone actually tries to respond to your question, you come back with something like that.

Maybe ya just didn't get out to a good start on this site. Ya might want to step back at take a look at your posts from the outside, and see what you might think if you were a stranger reading what you've said. Ya might get a better reception if ya treated people a little better.

I'm very sorry if I offended you. That was not my intention at all. When I said at the very first of my reply that I thought you were right, I meant it. Can you see that I said that? Really, I'm not joking. The way people are reacting to me I'm starting to get the impression that something funny (not ha ha) is going on here.

This is what I know. I posted a question. It got deleted. Someone says I broke some rules, but I know I didn't. In fact, I've stated that several times here. Did I call you a liar? That's what a few of you have done to me by saying that I must have broken the rules after I have assured you that I didn't. I know better than anyone else what I posted.

I honestly don't understand why you have taken offense to me. My wife tells me that sometimes I think too logically and I'll admit that I have a tendancy to be terse. Please don't misread that as offensiveness. As I'm typing, as the words move from my mind to my fingertips, I'm not intentionally writing anything that could be construed as offensive. You told me that, in your opinion, you thought the system wasn't worth buying. I took your word for it and said so. However, by the time you gave your advice (after the deletion and reposting of my question - why wasn't the repost against the rules?) I had already agreed to a 30-day trial. Then I thought I would tell you why I was still hoping, in spite of probability, that there could be a glimmer of hope that the system could suit my purposes. I am baffled as to why that would be deemed as offensive. What if, against all odds, this thing turns out to be ok? I work in a high volume transducer manufacturing faciltiy and am quite aware of the wide range of products that are made in China. Some of the stuff is worthless, some of it is the best in the world. I've sat shoulder to shoulder with Chinese, German, Dutch, and Japanese engineers working on a common goal. I'm not a complete nitwit.

Maybe it's my fault that I didn't ask the questions clearly enough. In the forums that I'm used to participating in everything is looked at from a technical perspective. So far nobody has given me a technical reason for not giving these things a try. I was hoping someone would look at the specs and say something like "Did you see the signal to noise ratio? That stinks!" I am completely comfortable with those terms as I am an electrical engineer. I just don't have a feel for what would make a decent microphone

One thing you said did intrigue me though. You said that they might not last. Is there an "aging" process that goes on with microphones or did you mean that they would be easily breakable or something completely different? I've got to keep in mind that even if these work well for 30 days that maybe after another 30 days they won't. If you're getting sick of this whole thing that's fine, don't feel obliged to answer. I've spent more time trying to explain myself here than I ever wanted to and maybe it's best I slip away into the night.

Enough is enough!

I understand that you were seeking assistance and some even offered you their suggestions. I read that you went ahead and purchased the mic and I hope all works out for you, if not I hope thatthey honor their 30 day guarantee. Please, feel free to inform us of the quality of the item and if not whether or not you were able to return the item.

Going into a rant over a post being deleted is pure foolishness. I am sorry that you feel that the original post was removed unjustly. That however, cannot be changed now. Continuing to gripe about it is not going to change things. This site and all content on it is the property of Karaoke Scene.

A lot of "cheaper" mics work great, until they're jostled or dropped once. Any kind of serious impact would be devestating!

Ok, now I'm feelin' the love.

Yep, it's true, enough is enough. I hereby promise not to mention the deleted post again. I won't bring it up and I hope no one else does (including telling me I posted a link or broke the rules, trust me, I'm just not the rule breaking type). I hope that sounds fair.

To all, thank you for your help. I will certainly try to figure out how sturdy these things are when they arrive (not sure exactly how to do that). I know for sure that my kids will use them as relay race batons when I'm not around. Well, no they're actually pretty well behaved kids but you know how it goes.

I've heard that to test the dynamic range of the mic and receiver that you're supposed to talk or sing loudly into the mic and see how easily it distorts so I'll do that as well. What other kinds of tests are there that I should do?

BJC, knightshow and Ron's posts have me wondering how long until the inevitable "kerplunk".

BTW - a funny thing happened. The guy sent me the tracking number for the mics. I was happy to see that they'll arrive tomorrow - at least I was until I noticed they are going to some other city in the Bay area (I live in So. Cal.). I left a message for the guy asking what's up. So maybe I won't be seeing them any time soon. Just call me lucky.

Hey Dubby, Let's just back up and start over - looks like you already have. I'm willing to do the same. Maybe we just didn't get off on the right foot. Concerning the mics, when I said the comment about lasting, it refers more to the construction. Usually what happens with the less expensive ones is the bodies are plastic rather than metal and therefore, seem to break easier if jostled. The other thing to look at is what type and how the batteries are loaded. For example I have an AT-3000 series that uses 2 AA batteries (significantly less expensive that 9V's). I can get two 4+ hour shows out of one set. Also to change the batteries you remove the long metal body (i.e. there's not a plastic battery cap down on the end that could easily break just from normal handling). Hope that helps, and really do wish ya good luck with it.

word!

Ron, BJC, thanks for the input. BJC, you crack me up.

Yeah, Ron I've been reading up on the 9v vs 2x1.5v (they actually run at 1.5v) mics. The 1.5v ones have a much more advanced circuitry allowing them to operate at a lower voltage and draw less current which is why they can operate for such a long time on one set of batteries. They are better but the extra cost pushed me over to the 9v type. Yesterday I received the four 9v NiMH (Nickel Metal-Hydride) batteries and charger I ordered a few days ago. I could get a 12 pack of 9v batteries at Costco for cheap but I just can't force myself to throw away dead batteries when I know I could get rechargeables for about $5 each (DISCLAIMER: I am NOT offering batteries, or anything else, for sale). I know it's different for you guys if a battery dies half way through a show.

I feel like I should explain what I'm up to and why. (forgive me for going waaaaaaay off topic)

At least once a year, usually summer, my wife and I and our kids (ages g13, b12, g9, b7) go to Japan to visit my wife's family and friends. At least once while we are there we and some friends will rent a karaoke room for a night. The first time we did it many years ago I was shocked that my wife had such a beautiful singing voice. When I pressed her for answers she admitted that before we met she would routinely win contests at the karaoke bars she would frequent when she was younger in Japan.

Fast forward to now.

I'm constantly on the lookout for fun things that we can all enjoy together as a family. Everyone seems to really enjoy the whole karaoke thing (the kids are well exposed to music as each of them have been taking piano lessons since age 7, the older two are quite good and the younger two seem to have at least as much aptitude). It occurred to me that I could make a computer based karaoke system that could rival or exceed the ones in Japan as far as the user interface goes. You know, remote control with the graphics going to the big screen in the family room. Now the sound quality, that's a completely different story. I also wanted to keep the cost as low as possible to start out. That's why I came here for advice.

I had already assembled a very high end home theater system (blown speakers should not be an issue) which, while not the best for vocals, would be something to build from. I gave myself a $500 budget to put the rest together. We have friends that have access to a very extensive cd+g library so I won't need to buy those at first either. I figured if it catches on with the family and the kids even start bringing over friends to enjoy it I can justify cracking open the wallet for whatever improvements we want to make.

So far I've received or have on order a used Vocopro 1050 mixer (it has 6 mic inputs, we can do our own version of "Sound of Music") which I'm hoping will be "good enough", the dual mics, a VGA to composite video converter for sending the computer video over to the big screen, the rechargeable batteries and charger and assorted cables. I've still got about $250 left of the original budget - not bad. (That's the way we tight-wad engineers brag)

So there ya go.

I found out that the mics are not lost. The guy sent me the tracking number to some other guy's order so I might get a chance to play with them on the weekend between basketball, baseball, softball games and practices.

Ron..
The next time either you or I do a big Chineese Cookout.. we'll have to invite Dubby and his family... I'm getting tired of feeding the "troops"...

_________________
Brian D.
(BHB)

Dubby, one other thing ya might look at with a family the size and ages you mentioned is family oriented karaokes in your area. Don't see where you're from in your profile, but in a lot of areas some of the bowling establishments, restaurants, etc. do a Sat or Sun, family and children oriented karaoke. Some of them are good alternatives, especially when there are kids involved, to the traditional bar scene types.

Yeah Ron, I looked into that a while ago before I even thought about trying to make my own system (how does that "great minds" saying go?) but it didn't seem like there was anything around us (Moorpark, CA) that you would bring kids to. The one we go to in Japan is about a block away from my mother-in-laws house in the same building as the bowling alley (just like you said).

The thought of having a setup right here in our home that we can use anytime is really appealing to me. I grew up in a family with five kids and I'm sort of the ugly duckling as far as music goes. Everyone else plays an instrument and sings (my wife says I have a "wonderful" voice but I know it's very unrefined). So now when we have family over (my parents have 23 grand-kids), there's some built-in entertainment for them.

Dubby, I know what ya mean. I didn't start singing till late - it was actually my daughter that got my wife and I into it. We got tired of carrying her all over the place to sing, while we just sat around. At any rate, keep your eyes/ears open for the family oriented shows. If one does open in your area, its great experience for the kids to be able to perform in front of a crowd of strangers, and chances they'll meet some new friends in that type environment. In the meanwhile, home karaoke is great.