Karaoke Forums

Hi, all,

I am still confused after reading losts of posts here in the past several days. Here is my situation, I have a Onkyo receiver, and 6.1 speakers,
a normal cyberhome DVD player. I want to be able to do karaoke on it, and I
want to use my DVD player (don't really care about CDG disks), and
I am not too worried about have a seperate set of speakers.

Now in my mind, I thought I need to be able to plug in two mics, be
able to hide the vocal sound (so that I can sing with the music),
set the echo level, maybe also able to change the key, and tempo
(key and tempo changing is not a must).

Now, will a mixer be the only thing missing ? How would the mixer
works with my receiver (I am using my receiver to do input switching
now, to switch between DVD input and HDTV tuner), will the addition
of mixer hurt the vedio quality, or will it only play a role on the sound,
so my DVD vedio signal will still go directly from the DVD player to
receiver ?


I've read in the posts that a normal mixer like Alesis 8fx 6 channel efx mixer will be good, and there is not much a difference between a
normal mixer and a karaoke mixer. So, will the Alesis mixer allows me
to do vocal hiding ? If I also want key changing capability, any recommendations on mixers ?

Thanks a lot.

Sure you'll need a mixer & speakers after you blow your home theater stuff.
Mixers don't generally have the vocal eliminator feature, although the Mackie DFX series does. Best thing to do is plug your mics & player into the mixer then the outputs of your mixer to your reciever.
Key changers are found on karaoke machines or you can purchase an outside unit. Vocopro makes them still.

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Thanks for the quick reply.

I've taken a look on Mackie DFX 6 mixer with effects (under 200$,
fit my budget), it does not though mention anything like
echo control. What do those 'effects' do for you ? With those effects,
I do not need to worry about echo at all ? what does
the so-called 5 band equalizer do ? How important a
feature is it ?

Between the Mackie DFx and the alesis 8fx 6 channel mixer, which one is
considered better (if not consider the vocal elimination functionality) ?
I've noticed the Mackie one has only 16 effects, while the alesis
has 99, and it has 3-band eq PER CHANNEL.

Thanks again.

Between the 2, the Mackie is far better. The Mackie has built in effects which will give your vocals reverb, delay (echo), chorus, etc...The 5 band eq is an equalizer. consider it a 5 band multiple tone control (like your bass & treble knob but a little more controllable between bass, midrange & treble). You probably won't use it, or maybe you will.
The 16 effects on the Mackie are adjustable to get a desired effect in a sense you are actually getting a better effect processor, the Alesis is preset by the manufacturer to give the most common effects, but you can't edit them. The only advantage the Alesis has is the 3 band eq vs. the 2 band, but this isn't going to be a big deal. You can compensate that with the 5 band eq.

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Great Information !

Sounds like I should be able to play a
karaoke DVD disk in my DVD player, and use the voice
eliminator in Mackie mixer to remove the vocal sound
(or is it true that if it is a karaoke disk, i don't even
need the vocal eliminator. I've read something like
MPx funcation offered by most mixers ? A normal
karaoke music disk should be mpx disks already,
so most normal mixer should be able to hide the
vocal sound on those disks ?) Of couse, with the
vocal eliminator, it will be able to remove vocal
sound even on a non-karaoke disk ?

Being it's a karaoke disc, it will already have the vocals removed. The mixer doesn't have anything to do with that. Being you are using a regular DVD player that isn't designed for karaoke, you may not have some features available to you that you may want.
The vocal eliminator takes vocals out of regular cd's (depending on how they were recorded). The multiplex feature isn't in the mixers, it comes from the player. Your DVD player may or may not have the multiplex feature.

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Even though my DVD does not have the multiplex function, the
vocal eliminator should be able to remove the vocal sound anyway,
right ?

Maybe I should go with a karaoke mixer ? I found one called
Audio2000'S® AKM7015 key & digital echo karaoke mixer,

that offered key changing, echo and voice cancellation (of
multiplex sound), so with that mixer, I should be able to
use my exisiting DVD player to do karaoke ?

Not necessarily. Vocal eliminators work via phase cancellation, meaning it seeks out the signal that is alike on both channels (vocals usually are) & cancels those frequencies thus reducing the sound of the vocals. Most multiplex discs are recorded with the vocals on 1 channel so the vocal eliminator wouldn't even affect it. This is where the multiplex feature in your player comes in. Again, your player may or may not have this feature, it isn't really a needed option on standard DVD machines.

So called "karaoke mixers" are usually junk. This isn't even a name brand that I recognize (or heard love/hate stories about) More than likely you'd regret the purchase after a while. Also this still won't take a multiplex disc & get rid of the vocal, this is a feature that needs to be changed at the player - it's basically a digital to analog shift. The effect in the karaoke mixer is just a cheesy sounding echo. No reverb (which is better for vocals).

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Looks like then for me, the mixer is not the only missing link.
I absolutely do need a DVD player that has the mpx function,
since the mixer does not have that capability at all.

It seems contradicts with what kojak had said in a
previous thread 'karaoke mixer and normal mixer',
where he said,

" 'vocal masking' .... works equaly well on all recordings, karaoke or not."

"vocal replace, (MPX) can be found on many home stereos. You can remove the MPXed vocals on your mixer by using 2 channels, one for the left side and one for the right side, instead of using one channel for stereo.
What you would do is:
Turn down the side that has the vocal recorded on it, (probably the left), and then by using the panner on your mixer send the right stereo track to both speakers, (or both sides of the amp).
"

If he was correct, then a mackie dfx will be fine for me, with a standard
non-karaoke DVD player ?

That is correct provided the disc is encoded that way - some (well quite a few now days) cdg's usually have 2 sets of tracks, 1 with vocals, 1 without. The multiplex DVD's I have encountered are recorded all on the same track which you need to hit a multiplex function to hear the words or drop the words.
Vocal mask, vocal replace, one touch karaoke, etc. are all the same thing - vocal eliminators designed to take vocals out of regular cd's, they are called different names by different manufacturers.

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W,
When I'm sitting around the house, listening to music, and I deceide to join in, I just pick up the mic and sing. No vocal eliminator.
Vocal eliminators make the music sound too wierd and thin for my taste.
I more than understand the desire to do karaoke with the original artist, and not have to pay for seperate karaoke disks, (CDG or DVD), but the chances are that you're not going to be happy with the way a vocal eliminator will make the music sound.
MPX doesn't do you much good either since the chances are that you're not going to see it on any tracks except INSTRUCTIONAL karaoke tracks on karaoke disks.

Lonman,
Audio2000s is a reconized co. based in Moorpark, Ca. in Simi Valley, (next to San Fernando Vally).
I use one of thier $16 ADM106 mics, (with switch), as an anounce mic or for for guys that want to play a little harmonica.
They come with an XLR cord.
They sound like an SM-58 but aren't quite as sensitive.
They also buzz a little more easily if you bring it up close and start belting it out. But what do you expect from a $16 mic?
I've been known to pull a "switch-a-roo" with it before drunks or rowdys get up to sing. I make the switch and then unscrew the top off of the SM58 and act like I'm doing something to it.
No hard feelings, and the drunk or rowdy doesn't jepardize an SM58.

Kojak

Audio 2000 stuff gear is not junk at all. I have the AKJ7050 mixer/amp and it performs quite well. If I remember correctly, Sammy endorsed this unit. Some pro KJs use this baby in their shows. It is the perfect design for the home user. Controls are easy and straightforward and the sound is good. I have had absolutely zero problems with this unit. Not everyone is good at mixing sound. For those and the home novice,the Audio200s units are perfect.

Many thanks. This forum is great !

I will not buy any CDG disks, only DVD disks. As lonman said, then
since those DVD disks encodes vocal and music on the same
track, I can not use the mixer the way kojak has described to
remove the vocal, but has to rely on the multiplex button most
likely appearing on a karaoke DVD player. I guess I will look
into buying a karaoke DVD player, along with a mixer.

I've seen people mentioning amplifiers, and seperate speaker
sets. Being on a tight buget, I certainly would like to reuse most
of my HT stuff. My receiver, an Onkyo HT510, has 110Wx6, i.e.,
110W on each channel (on paper). Will that receiver be good
enough to cope with live vocal (this is only for home use, say
2~4 hrs a month). Buying a seperate amplifier, will it help my
speaker set have a better chance survive live vocal, or is it
the amplifier does not help the life of speaker at all, simply provide
more power, and i need to buy seperate speaker set anyway ?

hey wrz,
follow all my post and you will see we both had the same start.

I'm an home theater kind of guy so all my toys are bought as such.

i have a denon 3802 (110wx6). i have a set of energy take 5 suround sounds (those tiny satellite speaker). I thought to myself: just got a pair of mic and a karaoke mixer and i will be all set to sing like a pro.

i for a pair of shure sm58 and some vocopro mixer....( i return 3 times to get 3 different model of vocopro mixer).

at the end, the sound is extremely bad. now my front pair energy is damaged..
i got myself a pair of jbl s310 speaker to replace it....it sounds louder but still bad when sing karaoke.

Movies and music are superb. i have no complain.

Well, to make this short, I realize that i can't shortchange the way my system setup for HT to get pro quality to sing.

Bit the bullet and got myself a seperate system for karaoke. At least i don't sing a lot but when i do, i have to like my voice and how it sounds.

got a pair of carvin 1502 speakers, carvin dcm 1500 power amp, mackie mixer and you all set. I know us hometheater owners wants to pay little to get pro sound to sing because we thought we got everything already in our superb home theater setup...trust me,,,it doesn't work out that way....at the end, you will realize you'd rather spend at the begining.

i'm waiting for my carvin to arrive.

My apology, I have heard of Audio 2000. I looked at something else on that page. I personally still think it's junk, but some HAVE had good luck with it.
Ok so you are set on keeping the home theater system. No a separate power amp wouldn't help, I would still buy a small set of pro-audio speakers & tap them off of your recievers speaker 2 (or B) connectors, turning off all the main & surround speakers. While your receiver isn't geared for live vocals, it will work better than nothing, your speakers are not designed nor will last over time & probably will sound muddy due to the way they are eq'd. Most receivers will handle 8 ohms with no problem so make sure any extra speaker you buy is at least 8 ohms.

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I use an Audio 2000 amp in both of my racks as well as audio 2000
speakers , have done several hundred private partys without fail
from any of their products.
This stuff has been banged around , cranked up all the way
and it just keeps on pluggin'.
I think in comparison with other "Karaoke Amplifiers"
it offers the best bang for the buck value.

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Gotta' Sing , Gotta' Sing !!!

As Lonnie points out, the home theater thang is your gig... but I'd like to make an impression...

You MUST get speakers that are rated for "live mic"... the woofers need to be of the more flexible fabric. They will last a LOT longer than the stiffer woofer fabric when it comes to live music/mic applications such as Karaoke.

You don't get as much bass that way, but the speakers I originally bought for karaoke have lasted me three years on up (my partner supplied the speakers before that)...

Ron uses a upper end Audio 2000 Karaoke Amp. I think Between the 2 of us near it we've made it sneeze only once in a show... which for having me around and being a real demanding KJ/Audio engineer.. that's real good.. It doesn't get hot or even at a temp where we worry about it.. and he seems quite happy with it.. I believe it's a 7,000 series, I don't quite recall what the exact model is but it came with the factory fan in it.. and it does see it's share of use..

I use the AKJ7050's

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Gotta' Sing , Gotta' Sing !!!

I also use a pair of audio 2000 speakers,
I did a corporate Christmas party last month in a hall that seats about 200
and it sounded clear and plenty powerfull. .
ASP5212 PA Speaker Features:

300Watts, 2-Way System
12" Low Frequency Woofer
4" X 10" Dispersion Horn Tweeter with Replaceable Diaphragm
Acoustic-Tune Ports for Superior Sound Venting
12dB / Octave High Pass Crossover Network
Handles for Easy Carrying
Charcoal Gray Carpet Finish and Plastic Corners for Heavy-Duty Use

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Gotta' Sing , Gotta' Sing !!!