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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:50 am 
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So your only problem is I'm not getting paid, that everything would be fine if I took money. It has been suggested that I be given a scrap of paper stating my time is a charitable donation, and I can take it off my taxes. Would that make you happy?

P.S. I don't tell any other host what he should or shouldn't do that is his choice. I am surprised at you though Mr.Scott, you don't want the government telling what to do, yet you want me to do what KJ's think I should do?


Last edited by The Lone Ranger on Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:57 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
So your only problem is I'm not getting paid, that everything would be fine if I took money. It has been suggested that I be given a scrap of paper stating my time is a charitable donation, and I can take it off my taxes. Would that make you happy?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:00 am 
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I guess not!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:01 am 
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Alan B wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
mrscott wrote:

I apologize, I thought you were in the San Diego area, my bad. However, that makes no difference in our conversation. My point was that the vast majority of the country is in an economic growth period. So, it shows the the responsibility for financial success lies within the owners and management of business's. If you really want to be of assistance to those whom these non profits benefit, then give some volunteer time to them. Like suggested already, soup kitchens, VA hospital (karaoke there would be interesting), donate to the Red Cross, Salvation Army, donate blood, go find homeless vets and donate directly to them,,,,, but for the love of all that is decent, don't detract from the industry of karaoke and cheapen it less than it is already. Do you think that the word won't get out that you are "donating karaoke shows" and the managers won't be on the phones with their co-equals in other establishments? They will be bragging how they are getting free entertainment at your expense. I know you feel like what you are doing seems like a good idea, but I hate to burst your bubble,,,these non-profits are slow because of their own mismanagements, not the lack of growth by itself. You have to ask why is there such a lack of growth for these clubs? It's not because they lack entertainment, it's because no one in management saw a need to look ahead and solve issues before they became big problems. You can't help those who don't want to be helped. And by doing what you are saying you are going to do, it shoots the rest of the karaoke industry right in the foot.


And My point is this, the so called recovery is very fragile. If for instance we default on our debt which the Republicans seem happy to to, then there will be a estimated loss of 15 TRILLION dollars on the stock market. Pushing us into yes another recession. You can ladle soup if you want to, I am a KJ, talk about demeaning! How could anyone have foreseen this pandemic which has eclipsed the number of deaths of the Spanish Influenza for America.

You and Alan seem to be confused, there is no magic pot of money, no Leprechaun with his crock of gold. I again repeat there is noooooo money. The industry has shot itself in the foot, it hasn't kept up with times, and doesn't have a clue about how to proceed. When you are being swept by a Storm you drop anchor and ride it out. You are so caught up in your own problems, you can't be objective.
You are the one that doesn't seem to get it. If the lodge has no money, then they shouldn't have entertainment. And they shouldn't expect people to provide it for free.

The reason why they have no money is because of their own mismanagement, NOT because of the pandemic. Think about this...

If I walked into a restaurant and told them I have no money, do you think they're going to feed me for free? I think not. We are providing a service in which we should be paid for. If the venue can't afford to pay someone, they shouldn't have entertainment. Bottom line.

There's a restaurant in Philly that allows you to pay what you can. Sometimes you get to pay nothing so your analogy means nothing. I believe that you have heard of the owner, Jon Bon Jovi.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:12 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
There's a restaurant in Philly that allows you to pay what you can. Sometimes you get to pay nothing so your analogy means nothing. I believe that you have heard of the owner, Jon Bon Jovi.



Oh by the way did JBJ run all of the other restaurants in Philly out of business doing this?

Well I can't stay on here all day, I have some work I have to get done for the Oct 1st debut.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:36 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
There's a restaurant in Philly that allows you to pay what you can. Sometimes you get to pay nothing so your analogy means nothing. I believe that you have heard of the owner, Jon Bon Jovi.


That's like comparing apples to lug nuts. Not even a good analogy Danny on your part.

If you want to equate what JBJ is doing, then you would have to look at it this way. Sure he can give away free food, but the minute he stops paying his employees (i.e. entertainment), every time he gave away free food, then he would be in violation of labor laws and also common decency. And at last time I looked neither you nor Lone Ranger are Jon Bon Jovi. It would be his choice since the rock star has deep pockets. But I can bet dimes to donuts that he still pays his employees and if he were to have entertainment, he would be paying them as well. The equal analogy would be if these lodges were giving away free drinks and food, and used that as an excuse not to be paying for hired help, including entertainment.

Try again Danny.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:24 am 
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mrscott wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
There's a restaurant in Philly that allows you to pay what you can. Sometimes you get to pay nothing so your analogy means nothing. I believe that you have heard of the owner, Jon Bon Jovi.


That's like comparing apples to lug nuts. Not even a good analogy Danny on your part.

If you want to equate what JBJ is doing, then you would have to look at it this way. Sure he can give away free food, but the minute he stops paying his employees (i.e. entertainment), every time he gave away free food, then he would be in violation of labor laws and also common decency. And at last time I looked neither you nor Lone Ranger are Jon Bon Jovi. It would be his choice since the rock star has deep pockets. But I can bet dimes to donuts that he still pays his employees and if he were to have entertainment, he would be paying them as well. The equal analogy would be if these lodges were giving away free drinks and food, and used that as an excuse not to be paying for hired help, including entertainment.

Try again Danny.

Danny is in a whole different category. I think that the reason why Danny accepts so little money for his services is because he's not very good. And he knows he isn't. So, he'll take anything just to get work.

A really good KJ, can be selective in which venue he will host at. And settle for nothing but the rate he feels his services are worth, which might be $150 or more. But Danny can't do that. Why?

Now this is only a guess but he has no self worth. He probably brings in 4 or 5 people at his shows. The bar would probably end up making the same amount of money whether he was there or not.

If you are good, and you make the bars you work for a lot of money and you bring in both new and repeat customers every week, you'll have a great reputation. Everybody in the area will know that you are the best. And you would have no problem getting a job and good pay.

But, sorry to say Danny, you can't be very good. I don't think you've ever lasted at any place for a long period of time. Or made good money.

Owners know who's good. And they're willing to pay someone who's making them money. But since you are not very popular and have no self worth and most likely no people skills, you're not racking in the bucks for the bar.

In my area, most bar owners know each other. They talk. I never really had to go knocking on doors for a job. They usually came to me. One place that I took over after they had failed attempts with another KJ, told me after just 3 weeks of being there... he said, since you've been here our sales have gone up by 38%. Then I had another bar owner come to see me at another place I was hosting at and liked what they saw and hired me for his place.

The point is, if you good... you won't have to settle. I have never accepted less that $150 for a karaoke night.

But Danny, it proves my point that you also have no self worth, aren't really benefiting the bars, don't have a following, and fall into the "bla" category of KJ's.

But still, even though no one will pay you top dollar for your services, you still should not do it for free. I'm sure you have to be somewhat better than that idiot they got at LR's Elks lodge.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:39 am 
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Alan B wrote:
mrscott wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
There's a restaurant in Philly that allows you to pay what you can. Sometimes you get to pay nothing so your analogy means nothing. I believe that you have heard of the owner, Jon Bon Jovi.


That's like comparing apples to lug nuts. Not even a good analogy Danny on your part.

If you want to equate what JBJ is doing, then you would have to look at it this way. Sure he can give away free food, but the minute he stops paying his employees (i.e. entertainment), every time he gave away free food, then he would be in violation of labor laws and also common decency. And at last time I looked neither you nor Lone Ranger are Jon Bon Jovi. It would be his choice since the rock star has deep pockets. But I can bet dimes to donuts that he still pays his employees and if he were to have entertainment, he would be paying them as well. The equal analogy would be if these lodges were giving away free drinks and food, and used that as an excuse not to be paying for hired help, including entertainment.

Try again Danny.

Danny is in a whole different category. I think that the reason why Danny accepts so little money for his services is because he's not very good. And he knows he isn't. So, he'll take anything just to get work.

A really good KJ, can be selective in which venue he will host at. And settle for nothing but the rate he feels his services are worth, which might be $150 or more. But Danny can't do that. Why?

Now this is only a guess but he has no self worth. He probably brings in 4 or 5 people at his shows. The bar would probably end up making the same amount of money whether he was there or not.

If you are good, and you make the bars you work for a lot of money and you bring in both new and repeat customers every week, you'll have a great reputation. Everybody in the area will know that you are the best. And you would have no problem getting a job and good pay.

But, sorry to say Danny, you can't be very good. I don't think you've ever lasted at any place for a long period of time. Or made good money.

Owners know who's good. And they're willing to pay someone who's making them money. But since you are not very popular and have no self worth and most likely no people skills, you're not racking in the bucks for the bar.

In my area, most bar owners know each other. They talk. I never really had to go knocking on doors for a job. They usually came to me. One place that I took over after they had failed attempts with another KJ, told me after just 3 weeks of being there... he said, since you've been here our sales have gone up by 38%. Then I had another bar owner come to see me at another place I was hosting at and liked what they saw and hired me for his place.

The point is, if you good... you won't have to settle. I have never accepted less that $150 for a karaoke night.

But Danny, it proves my point that you also have no self worth, aren't really benefiting the bars, don't have a following, and fall into the "bla" category of KJ's.

But still, even though no one will pay you top dollar for your services, you still should not do it for free. I'm sure you have to be somewhat better than that idiot they got at LR's Elks lodge.


I won't go so far as to be knocking Danny down and judging him. After all, I don't know any of you on here personally. But it is evident he has a problem with some of the things you mentioned. I only wish both of them well in their endeavors, and personal satisfaction does go a long way in hosting karaoke. If that is all they want out of it, so be it. But don't take the rest of the industry down with them.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:37 am 
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mrscott wrote:
Alan B wrote:
mrscott wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
There's a restaurant in Philly that allows you to pay what you can. Sometimes you get to pay nothing so your analogy means nothing. I believe that you have heard of the owner, Jon Bon Jovi.


That's like comparing apples to lug nuts. Not even a good analogy Danny on your part.

If you want to equate what JBJ is doing, then you would have to look at it this way. Sure he can give away free food, but the minute he stops paying his employees (i.e. entertainment), every time he gave away free food, then he would be in violation of labor laws and also common decency. And at last time I looked neither you nor Lone Ranger are Jon Bon Jovi. It would be his choice since the rock star has deep pockets. But I can bet dimes to donuts that he still pays his employees and if he were to have entertainment, he would be paying them as well. The equal analogy would be if these lodges were giving away free drinks and food, and used that as an excuse not to be paying for hired help, including entertainment.

Try again Danny.

Danny is in a whole different category. I think that the reason why Danny accepts so little money for his services is because he's not very good. And he knows he isn't. So, he'll take anything just to get work.

A really good KJ, can be selective in which venue he will host at. And settle for nothing but the rate he feels his services are worth, which might be $150 or more. But Danny can't do that. Why?

Now this is only a guess but he has no self worth. He probably brings in 4 or 5 people at his shows. The bar would probably end up making the same amount of money whether he was there or not.

If you are good, and you make the bars you work for a lot of money and you bring in both new and repeat customers every week, you'll have a great reputation. Everybody in the area will know that you are the best. And you would have no problem getting a job and good pay.

But, sorry to say Danny, you can't be very good. I don't think you've ever lasted at any place for a long period of time. Or made good money.

Owners know who's good. And they're willing to pay someone who's making them money. But since you are not very popular and have no self worth and most likely no people skills, you're not racking in the bucks for the bar.

In my area, most bar owners know each other. They talk. I never really had to go knocking on doors for a job. They usually came to me. One place that I took over after they had failed attempts with another KJ, told me after just 3 weeks of being there... he said, since you've been here our sales have gone up by 38%. Then I had another bar owner come to see me at another place I was hosting at and liked what they saw and hired me for his place.

The point is, if you good... you won't have to settle. I have never accepted less that $150 for a karaoke night.

But Danny, it proves my point that you also have no self worth, aren't really benefiting the bars, don't have a following, and fall into the "bla" category of KJ's.

But still, even though no one will pay you top dollar for your services, you still should not do it for free. I'm sure you have to be somewhat better than that idiot they got at LR's Elks lodge.


I won't go so far as to be knocking Danny down and judging him. After all, I don't know any of you on here personally. But it is evident he has a problem with some of the things you mentioned. I only wish both of them well in their endeavors, and personal satisfaction does go a long way in hosting karaoke. If that is all they want out of it, so be it. But don't take the rest of the industry down with them.
You're right. I don't mean to knock Danny down. I'm just going by things he's posted in the past about some of the places he's worked at, the size of the crowd he would draw, and owners not wanting to pay him... or offer very little.

As I've brought up before, in responding to him, there's got to be a reason for that. There's got to be a reason people aren't coming out to his shows and the owner(s) don't want to pay him. I told him it's time to do a check list and a little self evaluation. Things like personality, people skills, motivating the crowd, good sound, etc. I have only tried to help him by giving him this advice that would hope to only improve his skills as a host and gain some respect with owners and customers.

Like I said, there is a reason why things happen. Has Danny done everything in his power to set himself apart from the rest?

Personally, I think that Danny's hosting skills can use a makeover. He may have been doing this for a long time but just coasting by. My advice to Danny is to start looking at things differently... starting with yourself. And then get some self worth.

No offense to Danny. I'm just trying to help you succeed. But since I believe everything I've said to be true, is the reason Danny will agree to accept very little wage or host for free. He is bringing no value to the table.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:50 am 
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Danny, I'm going to share a tip with you. It's the golden rule of being successful in hosting karaoke.

Rule #1. If they like you, they will come back. Everything else is secondary. It doesn't matter how many songs you have or how great your sound is... if they like you, and they have an enjoyable experience at your shows, they will return. And they will tell their friends how great you are.

Rule #2. Get the staff to like you. Bartenders, servers, etc. If they like you, "You're In". They will talk about you, promote you, and tell their friends how great you are. They'll even post it on their Facebook page.

Follow these 2 golden rules. Everything else is secondary.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:00 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
Danny, I'm going to share a tip with you. It's the golden rule of being successful in hosting karaoke.

Rule #1. If they like you, they will come back. Everything else is secondary. It doesn't matter how many songs you have or how great your sound is... if they like you, and they have an enjoyable experience at your shows, they will return. And they will tell their friends how great you are.

Rule #2. Get the staff to like you. Bartenders, servers, etc. If they like you, "You're In". They will talk about you, promote you, and tell their friends how great you are. They'll even post it on their Facebook page.

Follow these 2 golden rules. Everything else is secondary.


This is the absolute truth.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:44 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
Danny, I'm going to share a tip with you. It's the golden rule of being successful in hosting karaoke.

Rule #1. If they like you, they will come back. Everything else is secondary. It doesn't matter how many songs you have or how great your sound is... if they like you, and they have an enjoyable experience at your shows, they will return. And they will tell their friends how great you are.

Rule #2. Get the staff to like you. Bartenders, servers, etc. If they like you, "You're In". They will talk about you, promote you, and tell their friends how great you are. They'll even post it on their Facebook page.

Follow these 2 golden rules. Everything else is secondary.


That is legitimately fantastic advice.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:04 am 
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I have completed my last tests on the EV-50 and it will work for the two large halls on my list of venues. One week from today I will either come back with my shield or on it, as far as hosting is concerned.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:25 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
I have completed my last tests on the EV-50 and it will work for the two large halls on my list of venues. One week from today I will either come back with my shield or on it, as far as hosting is concerned.


You will love the Evolve 50 speaker system. If your place isn't very big, then one set will work great. Although 2 is always better. Set up time is short and easy. I wish you well, even though I still think your objective is very short sighted.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:19 am 
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mrscott wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
I have completed my last tests on the EV-50 and it will work for the two large halls on my list of venues. One week from today I will either come back with my shield or on it, as far as hosting is concerned.


You will love the Evolve 50 speaker system. If your place isn't very big, then one set will work great. Although 2 is always better. Set up time is short and easy. I wish you well, even though I still think your objective is very short sighted.
So, your stupid mismanaged lodge gets to hear State-Of-The-Art sound, run by an experienced, qualified host... without having to pay a penny!

But why stop there? Why don't you throw in lighting, fog machines, and laser projectors and really go all out?

LR, you are a fool. You have proven you don't care about your self worth, your fellow KJ's, and the industry as a whole. There is nothing more that can be said because as the saying goes... "you can't talk to stupid'.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:54 am 
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Alan B wrote:
So, your stupid mismanaged lodge gets to hear State-Of-The-Art sound, run by an experienced, qualified host... without having to pay a penny!

But why stop there? Why don't you throw in lighting, fog machines, and laser projectors and really go all out?

LR, you are a fool. You have proven you don't care about your self worth, your fellow KJ's, and the industry as a whole. There is nothing more that can be said because as the saying goes... "you can't talk to stupid'.


The lodge while not being savvy on whom to hire for their KJ needs, is not stupid, it is a victim like all of us because of this long going health care emergency. Demographics have changed dramatically, and people no longer have the disposable income to go out. They are too concerned about the basics food, shelter, utilities.

Even you Alan on a different post stated that your gigs have gone from 5 to 2 a week, was that because you were stupid, or mismanaged? I think it is because like all of us we were blindsided by the pandemic. Every business was undermined and those dealing in the Hospitality market were really hard hit. You know I tried flashing lights once, too many complained about it having health side effects from them, so I stopped using them.

I like the way you and Mr.Scott have gotten on the same page for once, and continue to be there. I thought the only thing you had in common was that you both use EV 50's. My self worth Alan is not measured in dollars, if that were the case I wouldn't have a problem I assure you. This charity work as you call it I'm doing is not without conditions. It is only meant to be in place for the duration of the pandemic, or if the venues decide themselves to hire or fire me. Who knows I might not like working again. You talked about gigs that went till two in the morning. I used to do after hours karaoke till 4 or 5 in the morning, no booze of course, coffee and sandwiches, after I retired from my day job. I never wanted to be tied down to a regular gig, so I could travel, well the pandemic has ended travel for Americans, at least for a while. You are right about one thing Alan you can't talk when the other side doesn't want to listen, so why bother.

P.S. I hung back from jumping in because with no vaccination available I thought I would only be providing fuel to the pandemic fire. Now that most of my patrons are vaccinated I feel confident that a show can be run in a reasonably safe environment. I have taken my shot and continue to bang my drum, that all need to get their shots, if not for themselves then for their families protection. Just remember Alan you are the one that suggested I get back in the game.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:18 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Even you Alan on a different post stated that your gigs have gone from 5 to 2 a week, was that because you were stupid, or mismanaged? It think it is because like all of us we were blindsided by the pandemic. Every business was undermined and those dealing in the Hospitality market were really hard hit.

My friend, there is no doubt that the pandemic hit us hard. Some bars have gone out of business completely while others have drastically eliminated days and cut their hours.

Now, with that said...

The bars that have opened again for business are not going to be giving out freebies to customers. Nor are they going to cut their prices. They are not running a charity. And neither am I. In fact many of them have actually raised their prices to help make up for all the money they lost from being closed.

And like the bars, I'm not going to cut my prices either. We are in business to make money. We both provide a service in which we deserve to be paid.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:31 am 
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Alan B wrote:
My friend, there is no doubt that the pandemic hit us hard. Some bars have gone out of business completely while others have drastically eliminated days and cut their hours.

Now, with that said...

The bars that have opened again for business are not going to be giving out freebies to customers. Nor are they going to cut their prices. They are not running a charity. And neither am I. In fact many of them have actually raised their prices to help make up for all the money they lost from being closed.

And like the bars, I'm not going to cut my prices either. We are in business to make money. We both provide a service in which we deserve to be paid.


That is perfectly ok for you and them, you are both in business to make money. The non-profits are set up to serve their members, not for the members to serve the karaoke industry. This is two different ecosystems, with different goals. Just like I hope you get back to 5 gigs a week, I hope the karaoke survives here locally.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:09 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
This is two different ecosystems, with different goals.

Not really. But let's say it is... bar owners aren't going to see it that way. All they're going to see is that a karaoke host is getting paid $50 for their services and expect the same thing. "Free" makes it even worse. It sends the message that karaoke has no value.

It doesn't matter that your motives are to help out the lodge. Bar owners are not going to see it that way and will expect the same from anyone they hire to host karaoke for them.

You have no idea how much your actions will hurt us all.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:01 am 
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So we have already lost around 40% of the former karaoke venues in my general area. You want me to do what nothing while more are closed? You feel it hurts the industry, that would be true if everything was going well, that I was trying to chisel into established gigs, you know, I know that isn't the case. I think preserving, expanding the customer base is the only way out until the pandemic is over. This isn't meant to be a permanent fix, just during an emergency, that has effected the industry anyway.

P.S. The hand writing is already on the wall, for those that want to read it. If non-profits cannot afford to pay hosts their only option is to have member volunteers fill the gaps, they have already done so, and have now gotten burned hiring a so called professional, that really isn't. This hurts karaoke more than anything I might do. By the way Alan if you are doing 2 a week when you used to do 5, isn't your business down 60%?


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