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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:18 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
Yeah he's definitely not worth the money. Just got a gig at a local American Legion on Friday nights. Small bar area. Simple setup, I just need to bring my mixer, mics, laptop and speakers. Paying $125 for 4 hours.

The following response applies to the real, professional KJ's who know how to run a karaoke business and are really good....

Danny...

If you accept a low wage or settle for what the bar wants to pay you... you're sending a message that you're not worthy of a higher dollar amount. And that you're like everyone else.

You need to justify and convince the owner why you charge $150 or more... and why you're worth it. You need to have some self worth.

When I talk to someone for a new gig, here's some of the things I get across:

• Experience. Let them know that you are a seasoned professional who's been doing this for many years.
• People skills. Let them know that you are more than a "name caller". That you actually motivate the crowd.
• Sound & Equipment. Let them know that you spare no expense in providing professional equipment and that you are considered to have the best sound around.
• Legality. Let them know that you operate and run your business legally. That you purchase your music and don't use YouTube videos. That by hiring you, they don't have to worry about a lawsuit for copyright infringement.
• Dependability. Let them know that you're dependable. In my 25 years of doing this, I have never been late for a job. Usually I'm there at least an hour or more before start time. And in all those years, I've only been sick one night in which I found someone to replace me.
• Professionalism. This one speaks for itself. I don't need to elaborate.

The thing is, you need to show that you're worth it and what sets you apart from the rest.

Here's a scenario that happened before the pandemic:

A friend of mine gave me a tip that a bar he goes to was looking for a karaoke host. He said he told them about me and that I was the best around. The owner told him, that's what we've heard but he'll never to it for the price we can pay, which was $125.

Long story short... I went there to talk to the owner. I told them about myself and the show I run. I told him I usually get between $150-$175 but I will agree to do it for $125 for 3 weeks. I told him, It's my job to bring in customers and make you money. That's why you're hiring me. If I can't do that, you don't need me. But if I can, after 3 weeks is up, we go back to my going rate.

He agreed. It worked out great and he was happy with the results and I got my going rate. But then the pandemic hit and everything closed.

Danny, the point is... sell yourself. If you accept a low wage, you will be known as a cheap KJ. It will only hurt you in the future. Remember, all bar owners know each other. And they talk to each other. It will be hard to convince another place to pay you more money if that owner knows that you've been getting only $100 a night at his friends place.

And don't use the pandemic as an excuse. After all, did bars lower their food and drink prices? No, they did not. In fact, most places are charging more. One place that I'm working for charges $4 for a Bud Light. So, they're not lowering their price... so why should you?

So, believe in yourself and that you are worth every penny you're asking for. And let them know why you would be the best man for the job. Don't settle.

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Last edited by Alan B on Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:23 am 
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That is really solid advice, Alan. Premium service warrants premium pay.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:20 am 
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These days I do things for different reasons than I did in the past. Before, I would try to get the $150 per show for recurring weekly gigs, but depending on the size of the venue, I might consider as low as $125 (that was rock bottom) Back on those days, I was hosting at least 4 nights per week, sometimes as many as 5. Hauling around all that big, heavy gear was killing me. That was one of the reasons I walked away from it all for a time. In the end, the money wasn't really worth it.

Nowadays, I view it a lot differently. Much simpler set up with the EV Evolve 50's. And I am more selective on what and where I will accept a gig. Bottom dollar now for even a recurring show is $150. I won't even consider anything less (in fact, I am thinking of raising prices). And for one time shows such as b'day's, anniversary parties, corporate parties, etc. my base price starts at $500 and goes up from there. Weddings I start at $600 for the basic package, and it goes up from there. My time and self worth are much more valuable than setting my standards so low as to attract just anybody wanting my services.

Like Alan said so well, it's how you set your worth.

In the case of LR lodge situation, this guy they hired isn't doing anybody any favors. In fact, I believe it to be just the opposite. But, then again, if the lodge sets it's standards so low, then that is what they are getting. Profitability aside, they seem like they don't really care to be successful.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:44 am 
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mrscott wrote:
These days I do things for different reasons than I did in the past. Before, I would try to get the $150 per show for recurring weekly gigs, but depending on the size of the venue, I might consider as low as $125 (that was rock bottom)


I'm in a different spot MrScott I no longer need the money, rather I'm more concerned with local non-profits going under and disappearing. Of the 5 local non-profits at least 3 are on shaky ground financially. I do not give large sums to support local non-profits, but rather do donate my services to the non-profits. I have spend my whole life in service to my country and it's citizens, in old age I can do the same for my local community. Let's face it that is what we lack today a sense of community. Just like you have different reasons, so do I. Like Rhett Butler in "Gone With The Wind", I only like lost causes, when they are truly lost. I'm only picking those non profits who can no longer afford to pay the host.

P.S. I have had some set backs with my computer going down, but I'm poised to start my first new show weekly in 7 years. Starting in October I will be doing the Moose Lodge on Friday night, trying to restart their Dinner and Karaoke format, which they once had. I tell all non-profits give me your worse night and see If I can make things better?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:41 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
mrscott wrote:
These days I do things for different reasons than I did in the past. Before, I would try to get the $150 per show for recurring weekly gigs, but depending on the size of the venue, I might consider as low as $125 (that was rock bottom)


I'm in a different spot MrScott I no longer need the money, rather I'm more concerned with local non-profits going under and disappearing. Of the 5 local non-profits at least 3 are on shaky ground financially. I do not give large sums to support local non-profits, but rather do donate my services to the non-profits. I have spend my whole life in service to my country and it's citizens, in old age I can do the same for my local community. Let's face it that is what we lack today a sense of community. Just like you have different reasons, so do I. Like Rhett Butler in "Gone With The Wind", I only like lost causes, when they are truly lost. I'm only picking those non profits who can no longer afford to pay the host.

P.S. I have had some set backs with my computer going down, but I'm poised to start my first new show weekly in 7 years. Starting in October I will be doing the Moose Lodge on Friday night, trying to restart their Dinner and Karaoke format, which they once had. I tell all non-profits give me your worse night and see If I can make things better?


I get what you are saying and why you are trying to do what you are doing. The real issue here is these places don't care to be successful, and no matter how much you want them to be, you cannot want for them.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:59 am 
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mrscott wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
mrscott wrote:
These days I do things for different reasons than I did in the past. Before, I would try to get the $150 per show for recurring weekly gigs, but depending on the size of the venue, I might consider as low as $125 (that was rock bottom)


I'm in a different spot MrScott I no longer need the money, rather I'm more concerned with local non-profits going under and disappearing. Of the 5 local non-profits at least 3 are on shaky ground financially. I do not give large sums to support local non-profits, but rather do donate my services to the non-profits. I have spend my whole life in service to my country and it's citizens, in old age I can do the same for my local community. Let's face it that is what we lack today a sense of community. Just like you have different reasons, so do I. Like Rhett Butler in "Gone With The Wind", I only like lost causes, when they are truly lost. I'm only picking those non profits who can no longer afford to pay the host.

P.S. I have had some set backs with my computer going down, but I'm poised to start my first new show weekly in 7 years. Starting in October I will be doing the Moose Lodge on Friday night, trying to restart their Dinner and Karaoke format, which they once had. I tell all non-profits give me your worse night and see If I can make things better?


I get what you are saying and why you are trying to do what you are doing. The real issue here is these places don't care to be successful, and no matter how much you want them to be, you cannot want for them.
That's a very good point... which brings us to another issue... working for these types of places. As mrscott said, these places don't care about being successful. And because of that, working for a place like this can actually hurt YOUR reputation and affect YOUR success. It goes back to self worth. So, personally, I would be a lot more selective in the places I choose to work for. But that's just me.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:20 am 
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Alan B wrote:
mrscott wrote:

I get what you are saying and why you are trying to do what you are doing. The real issue here is these places don't care to be successful, and no matter how much you want them to be, you cannot want for them.
That's a very good point... which brings us to another issue... working for these types of places. As mrscott said, these places don't care about being successful. And because of that, working for a place like this can actually hurt YOUR reputation and affect YOUR success. It goes back to self worth. So, personally, I would be a lot more selective in the places I choose to work for. But that's just me.


I would care about my reputation if karaoke was all I did. That has never been the case, I never quit my day job, and my hobby, became my business after I retired from government service. My self worth is not measured in dollars, but rather by the enjoyment I bring to others. My dormant business is now my hobby once again, and getting the self satisfaction that I am trying to do something positive. Especially after seeing all of the division and negativity that already exists in this country. It would be a sad thing indeed if we went through our whole life's without doing one good deed.


Last edited by The Lone Ranger on Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:56 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Alan B wrote:
mrscott wrote:

I get what you are saying and why you are trying to do what you are doing. The real issue here is these places don't care to be successful, and no matter how much you want them to be, you cannot want for them.
That's a very good point... which brings us to another issue... working for these types of places. As mrscott said, these places don't care about being successful. And because of that, working for a place like this can actually hurt YOUR reputation and affect YOUR success. It goes back to self worth. So, personally, I would be a lot more selective in the places I choose to work for. But that's just me.


I would care about my reputation if karaoke was all I did. That has never been the case, I never quit my day job, and my hobby, became my business after I retired from government service. My self worth is not measured in dollars, but rather by the enjoyment I bring to others. My dormant business is now my hobby once again, and getting the self satisfaction that I am trying to do something positive. Especially after seeing all of the division and negativity that already exists in this country. It would be a sad thing indeed if we went through our whole lives without doing one good deed.

I'm the same way about my business. I only want maybe one show and don't give a crap about the pay anymore. I have a second income which is my primary income which takes care of my bills just fine. The business is more of a hobby and I get paid for my services by more than just monetary means. I really get a kick out of watching the singers come out of their shells when they sing. Personally if that is all the pay that I got I would be content. So I have no problem taking what pay that they offered within limits.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:45 pm 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
Alan B wrote:
mrscott wrote:

I get what you are saying and why you are trying to do what you are doing. The real issue here is these places don't care to be successful, and no matter how much you want them to be, you cannot want for them.
That's a very good point... which brings us to another issue... working for these types of places. As mrscott said, these places don't care about being successful. And because of that, working for a place like this can actually hurt YOUR reputation and affect YOUR success. It goes back to self worth. So, personally, I would be a lot more selective in the places I choose to work for. But that's just me.


I would care about my reputation if karaoke was all I did. That has never been the case, I never quit my day job, and my hobby, became my business after I retired from government service. My self worth is not measured in dollars, but rather by the enjoyment I bring to others. My dormant business is now my hobby once again, and getting the self satisfaction that I am trying to do something positive. Especially after seeing all of the division and negativity that already exists in this country. It would be a sad thing indeed if we went through our whole lives without doing one good deed.

I'm the same way about my business. I only want maybe one show and don't give a crap about the pay anymore. I have a second income which is my primary income which takes care of my bills just fine. The business is more of a hobby and I get paid for my services by more than just monetary means. I really get a kick out of watching the singers come out of their shells when they sing. Personally if that is all the pay that I got I would be content. So I have no problem taking what pay that they offered within limits.


Sorry to say Danny, then you are not running a "business", you are running a "charity". Same goes to Lone Ranger. But if the charities don't care about their own success, you are achieving nothing more than wasting your time. And if your time is worth nothing to you, then you are saying you aren't worth it. You cannot help those who don't want to be helped. There comes a time that you just have to turn and walk away.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:20 pm 
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mrscott wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
Alan B wrote:
mrscott wrote:

I get what you are saying and why you are trying to do what you are doing. The real issue here is these places don't care to be successful, and no matter how much you want them to be, you cannot want for them.
That's a very good point... which brings us to another issue... working for these types of places. As mrscott said, these places don't care about being successful. And because of that, working for a place like this can actually hurt YOUR reputation and affect YOUR success. It goes back to self worth. So, personally, I would be a lot more selective in the places I choose to work for. But that's just me.


I would care about my reputation if karaoke was all I did. That has never been the case, I never quit my day job, and my hobby, became my business after I retired from government service. My self worth is not measured in dollars, but rather by the enjoyment I bring to others. My dormant business is now my hobby once again, and getting the self satisfaction that I am trying to do something positive. Especially after seeing all of the division and negativity that already exists in this country. It would be a sad thing indeed if we went through our whole lives without doing one good deed.

I'm the same way about my business. I only want maybe one show and don't give a crap about the pay anymore. I have a second income which is my primary income which takes care of my bills just fine. The business is more of a hobby and I get paid for my services by more than just monetary means. I really get a kick out of watching the singers come out of their shells when they sing. Personally if that is all the pay that I got I would be content. So I have no problem taking what pay that they offered within limits.


Sorry to say Danny, then you are not running a "business", you are running a "charity". Same goes to Lone Ranger. But if the charities don't care about their own success, you are achieving nothing more than wasting your time. And if your time is worth nothing to you, then you are saying you aren't worth it. You cannot help those who don't want to be helped. There comes a time that you just have to turn and walk away.
This is one time I agree with mrscott 100%. Sorry, Danny... but you do NOT have a business. I don't know any business owners who "don't give a crap about the pay". What you're doing is making venue owners believe that hosting karaoke is a worthless business and that low wages are part of it. This is a real kick in the teeth to those of us who have worked hard for years and have spent a lot of money on trying to build a successful business.

You need to hang it up. You are everything that's wrong with this business. Frankly, I was disgusted by your response above. So please hang it up and let someone who really cares and is trying to run a legitimate business take over. You are deplorable.

One more thing... you've just confirmed what I've said above... you have NO self worth. You have just proven it. Bar owners just love KJ's with no self worth. That means that they can pay them anything they want and the worthless KJ will accept it. Danny, you are pathetic.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:44 am 
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Alan B wrote:

Sorry to say Danny, then you are not running a "business", you are running a "charity". Same goes to Lone Ranger. But if the charities don't care about their own success, you are achieving nothing more than wasting your time. And if your time is worth nothing to you, then you are saying you aren't worth it. You cannot help those who don't want to be helped. There comes a time that you just have to turn and walk away.
This is one time I agree with mrscott 100%. Sorry, Danny... but you do NOT have a business. I don't know any business owners who "don't give a crap about the pay". What you're doing is making venue owners believe that hosting karaoke is a worthless business and that low wages are part of it. This is a real kick in the teeth to those of us who have worked hard for years and have spent a lot of money on trying to build a successful business.[/quote]
i have to agree with Alan here, the biggest reason we can not garner the money that used to be paid for karaoke is people who don't care and will work for whatever because it's only play money and not their real business.
bar owners get used to paying peanuts to these hosts, so the actual business KJ's can't get the money we used to get or deserve to get.
This is the problem, and as long as it continues, the downward spiral will also continue.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:47 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
bar owners get used to paying peanuts to these hosts, so the actual business KJ's can't get the money we used to get or deserve to get.
This is the problem, and as long as it continues, the downward spiral will also continue.

...and we have Danny and people like him to thank for that. He is not contributing anything to the industry, he's only making it more difficult for a legitimate host to survive. I remember in the early days of karaoke, it wouldn't be uncommon to get between $200 - $250 for one night. But those days are gone thanks to people like Danny.

Again I say to Danny, and I'm sure most of you would agree, get the "f" out of this business. You are only ruining it for everyone else.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:24 am 
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Hold on Guys, all that glitters is not gold. True maybe me and Danny aren't running hosting as a business, we are using it to improve the life's of others. While it is true that some hosts have karaoke as their only source of income, most use it as an income supplemental. Even you Alan admitted that paying gigs dried up due to the pandemic. Didn't Alan say that at least one of his established gigs folded, then there is no dollars? The reason I support non-profits is because they do support and give back to the community. While you are a host, you are also a member of society, and should strive to improve your local community.

You feel it is being a sucker, that the host is being played. Not if the host knows what they are getting into. These particular venues can no longer support karaoke, does that mean that the music stops and karaoke ends? You feel that hosts that aren't interested in money are some how not compensated. There are different forms of compensation, it all depends upon what you are used to. The basis of "The Magnificent Seven" plot is seven gunfighters take on a job for $20.00 each risking their life, for a price they would have scorned before. They also saved a community from an evil, criminal element, destroying the economy of that community.

P.S. I think the above posts are only looking at the angle of competition driving down the money that can be charged for karaoke. Another way to look at it as long as there is a pandemic, keeping karaoke alive until better times is good for your business. It is keeping the patrons engaged and eventually when things improve the rising tide will lift all boats, including yours. So what you are saying only legitimate hosts charge the going rate, I disagree. The legitimacy of a host can't be measured by what he is getting paid. Many great hosts make less than Pirate Hacks?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:44 am 
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mrscott wrote:

I get what you are saying and why you are trying to do what you are doing. The real issue here is these places don't care to be successful, and no matter how much you want them to be, you cannot want for them.



They care because they don't want to have to close their doors. Remember I'm not taking a paying gig away from another host, I'm starting new programs on new nights. The goal is to keep all of the non-profits in my area open so they can continue their good works. So many people complain about the current situation of things, and aren't willing to do anything to make things better. It could be better for your business in the long run, by keeping more venues open, at least during this national emergency. I think taking some action is better than sitting home and pulling the covers over your head, at least for me.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:53 am 
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mrscott wrote:

Sorry to say Danny, then you are not running a "business", you are running a "charity". Same goes to Lone Ranger. But if the charities don't care about their own success, you are achieving nothing more than wasting your time. And if your time is worth nothing to you, then you are saying you aren't worth it. You cannot help those who don't want to be helped. There comes a time that you just have to turn and walk away.


So what is the problem Alan, we are providing a charity to charities? We are not taking paying gigs from other hosts, we are keeping karaoke alive in our areas. They do want to be helped, since their response to me has been positive. When you are old and retired what do you have but time, to waste? Which I don't think is a waste, now waiting in long lines is a waste, of time, and we all do that.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:56 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Hold on Guys, all that glitters is not gold. True maybe me and Danny aren't running hosting as a business, we are using it to improve the life's of others.

A doctor also "improves the life of others" but you can bet he's not doing it for free. He's getting paid for his services.
The Lone Ranger wrote:
While it is true that some hosts have karaoke as their only source of income, most use it as an income supplemental. Even you Alan admitted that paying gigs dried up due to the pandemic. Didn't Alan say that at least one of his established gigs folded, then there is no dollars?

Yes, I did lose one of my gigs as a result of the pandemic and a staff shortage. But what does that have to do with running a karaoke business? I certainly am not lowering my prices or giving away charity because of it.

The Lone Ranger wrote:
You feel it is being a sucker, that the host is being played. Not if the host knows what they are getting into. These particular venues can no longer support karaoke, does that mean that the music stops and karaoke ends?
Yes, it does. Hey, how about this...

I can no longer afford to go out to a restaurant for dinner. Does that mean the restaurant should go out of business? Or lower it's price to a fraction of the cost just for me?
The Lone Ranger wrote:
You feel that hosts that aren't interested in money are some how not compensated. There are different forms of compensation, it all depends upon what you are used to.

The point is, this is a business. Most of us have been successful at it and want to see it continue. With the attitude you and Danny have is that it's a charity. And if that's how you want to think about it fine. But doing so is not helping the rest of us. It's making it harder for venues to take karaoke seriously and pay us the wage we deserve. They don't look at it as a legitimate business anymore. And they won't pay what's considered a fair wage. That is what you guys are doing.

Think about this... Let's say the bar down the street from the Moose Lodge is looking for a karaoke host. He asks my price and I tell him $150. He says: "No way. They're only paying the guy at the Moose $50 bucks.

Do you get it? You should be looking at the industry as a whole and how your selfish decisions can affect others who are serious about this business.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:00 am 
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Alan B wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
bar owners get used to paying peanuts to these hosts, so the actual business KJ's can't get the money we used to get or deserve to get.
This is the problem, and as long as it continues, the downward spiral will also continue.

...and we have Danny and people like him to thank for that. He is not contributing anything to the industry, he's only making it more difficult for a legitimate host to survive. I remember in the early days of karaoke, it wouldn't be uncommon to get between $200 - $250 for one night. But those days are gone thanks to people like Danny.

Again I say to Danny, and I'm sure most of you would agree, get the "f" out of this business. You are only ruining it for everyone else.


Usually I agree with Paradigm, not in this case. I did leave the business and stayed out for 7 years, all the time I did karaoke when times were good, I was paid. Now things aren't great in the state of karaoke, and like it or not you need hosts like Danny willing to keep the industry going until better times. Danny has always ran his enterprise legally, what really ruined karaoke was illegal operators driving down costs, since pirates aren't interested in anything but making what they can. A host can't take all of the time, without giving something back, that is my view.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:05 am 
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Alan I have read your piece above, you are assuming that I would be looking for a paying gig. I'm not looking for a paying gig later at some bar, lounge, or restaurant. I don't want to do the long hours, and be in a open to the public setting. You have to remember that I am in a different place than the rest of the professional hosts. I don't consider it a business any longer, it is my hobby, you expect to not make money with a hobby, rather to help the time pass, while you reach the end of your shelf life.

P.S. To me it takes the pressure off if things start out slow, like they usually do. They can't complain since they are getting their service at no cost. I still put out my tip jar and usually if I work steadily eventually I will recoup the cost of my equipment investments.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:20 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
I don't consider it a business any longer, it is my hobby, you expect to not make money with a hobby, rather to help the time pass, while you reach the end of your shelf life.

The bottom line is: your hobby is making it harder for the rest of us to be taken seriously and get paid the amount we deserve. Your hobby is sending the message to bar owners everywhere that karaoke is nothing more than cheap entertainment in which they can pay next to nothing for.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:33 am 
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Look... because of a market over saturated with karaoke hosts... who operate illegally and try to under cut legitimate hosts, the market has already taken a huge dive in what we make in wages. What was once a very respectable business, commanding a going rate of $200 to $300 a night has dropped significantly. And now, we have people who are willing to host for free!

So, we went form a 2 to 300 paying gig, to a gig that pays nothing. Tell me how this hasn't hurt the industry and the legitimate hosts trying to run a legal business.

There is nothing LR or Danny can say to justify their selfish decisions to run a charity and give karaoke away for free, which only contributes to giving the rest of us trying to make an honest living, the shaft.

OK... mrscott or Paradigm step in here cause I'm done with this.

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