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When should the KJ be in the rotation?
NEVER 18%  18%  [ 2 ]
Just to start the show 18%  18%  [ 2 ]
1-5 singers 27%  27%  [ 3 ]
5-10 singers 18%  18%  [ 2 ]
10-15 singers 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
ALWAYS 18%  18%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 11
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:01 am 
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Let's face it, most of us got into this profession because we love karaoke. I know I do. My questions to hosts and singers a like is, when is appropriate for the KJ to be in the rotation.

Obviously if there are no singers, the host can help get things started. The host in the rotation can also help when there are only a small handful of singers to keep things interesting. But once the list starts to grow, as a singer I would get frustrated when I was waiting over an hour to sing but had to wait for the KJ (and sometimes his/her assistant or family member.)

My wife and I set a rule that once our rotation hit or exceeded 8 singers, we would remove ourselves from the rotation. I am curious if anyone out there has a similar rule or guideline? Thoughts?

FYI, I am not saying what is right or wrong, or even what is best. Just truly looking for perspective from other Karaoke lovers. I also understand that some situations may call for a different response...I am just looking for a general guideline.

Thanks for the participation!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:12 am 
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I would normally bow out at 8 singers but I chose 1 to 5 because I feel like 10 is too many singers for me to stay in the rotation. If I really had my druthers, I would just sing 1 song to set the levels and that would be that. It's hard now to do that with the pandemic because I don't want to contaminate my handheld mics before the singers get to use them. I guess I can just move a mic cover between mics and go from there.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:37 am 
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I use that same number (8) as a guide to pull myself out of rotation as well. However, I kind of augment that statement with 8 "steady" people in rotation. If I can see people who are going to be leaving the venue, or I feel that they probably won't be putting songs up on a regular basis, then I change that number to 10. Also, I rarely pull my significant other out of rotation unless she tells me to. She is a customer just like everyone else. Lately tho, (summer numbers are lower here, always) rotations have only reached about the 10 or 12 mark. I didn't choose a poll number, because like Danny, I felt the choices didn't fit what I do.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:37 am 
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I feel keeping the host out of the rotation is critical for a healthy show. Except in cases where you are asked to maybe do a duet, with a person that does not have a partner. Most singers want the mic in their hands every 30 mins or less, otherwise their attention starts to wane, and they look for a less crowded venue. When I hosted I liked to focus on running my show and not performing, that is part of the reason I feel I was so successful. Even on nights with more than 20 singers, if you keep it moving, you will not need as much filler music in between singers. The normal rate of singers per hour should be around 15 to maybe 17 depending on length of songs, and other factors.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:05 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
I feel keeping the host out of the rotation is critical for a healthy show. Except in cases where you are asked to maybe do a duet, with a person that does not have a partner. Most singers want the mic in their hands every 30 mins or less, otherwise their attention starts to wane, and they look for a less crowded venue. When I hosted I liked to focus on running my show and not performing, that is part of the reason I feel I was so successful. Even on nights with more than 20 singers, if you keep it moving, you will not need as much filler music in between singers. The normal rate of singers per hour should be around 15 to maybe 17 depending on length of songs, and other factors.


The average song is about 4 minutes (shorter on the old classics though), so that means 15 max singer per hour. But with walk up time, and people not listening or hurrying to the stage, I only figure about 14 singers per hour. If your crowd is older and sings the older songs, then yes, maybe 17 is possible. These days though not many of the older songs are being sung.

I do agree that having the host stay out of rotation whenever possible is much better for crowd involvement. But if your rotations are short enough, then the host can actually bring life to a show by choosing songs to inspire others.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:26 am 
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mrscott wrote:

The average song is about 4 minutes (shorter on the old classics though), so that means 15 max singer per hour. But with walk up time, and people not listening or hurrying to the stage, I only figure about 14 singers per hour. If your crowd is older and sings the older songs, then yes, maybe 17 is possible. These days though not many of the older songs are being sung.

I do agree that having the host stay out of rotation whenever possible is much better for crowd involvement. But if your rotations are short enough, then the host can actually bring life to a show by choosing songs to inspire others.


That was my specialty at the end of my KJ hosting career "Golden Oldies Shows", that is why it was possible to squeeze in an extra song maybe two. Many newer songs just don't lend them selves to karaoke like the older classics do.


Last edited by The Lone Ranger on Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:49 am 
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I mainly got into karaoke because I didn't want to hear the host singing every rotation. I will only sing if I have less than 5 singers, anything more I pull myself.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:00 am 
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Lonman wrote:
I mainly got into karaoke because I didn't want to hear the host singing every rotation. I will only sing if I have less than 5 singers, anything more I pull myself.


I have a local KJ host nice guy, but he leads off every rotation no matter how many singers are on his list. Not only does he lead off, but he peppers the crowd with women he sings duets with. Sometimes depending on how many are at his show, he might get 3,4, 5 songs he helps with, I keep telling him, they come for the karaoke, not for you to entertain them, just help them along their karaoke journey.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:27 am 
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I'm not a host, but I did vote "always."

Everyone's going to run a rotation differently--that much has been established and argued ad nauseum here and other places.

With a pretty strict rotation, I like it when the host sings because it means "hey, we're at the top of the rotation." But, depending on the host and the place, it's also nice when they sing because the rest of the singers (myself included) aren't great to begin with.

For me, as long as they're singing no more than any patron, it's all good. When it becomes the Karaoke Host Lounge Singing Show, that's when it gets annoying.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:39 am 
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I will never include myself in the rotation regardless of how many singers I have. It's the host's job to run the show, not be part of it. Including yourself into the rotation only robs valuable singing time from your customers. And it's my job to get everybody singing as much as possible.

With that said, if someone asks me to sing a duet with them (their turn), I will gladly do so. Other than that, I feel a host has no business including himself in the rotation. If you want to sing, go to someone else's show on your night off.

But most of the hosts who include themselves in the rotation regardless of how many singers, make it more about their ego than about the people who came out to sing and spend money at the bar. It's just a poor practice, IMO.

Now, I can make an exception if you only had less than 5 singers. But for me, even so, I wouldn't do it. If I had only a handful of singers, I would break it up with dance music in between.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:05 am 
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Every venue and it's needs are different, and so are the hosts.

It equates to: "What is the proper way to eat an apple?"


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:01 am 
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mrscott wrote:
Every venue and it's needs are different, and so are the hosts.

It equates to: "What is the proper way to eat an apple?"

Totally ridiculous answer. The venue doesn't matter nor should it justify a host including himself into the rotation. You are there to host the show and bring in customers so the bar makes money. You are not there to sing.

You need to get your priorities straight. Karaoke is about the people who came out to sing. They are the ones making the bar money. It's not about you and your ego. A host should never include himself/herself into the rotation.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:26 am 
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I will sing at the top of the round except for the last round.
if somebody gets so bent out of shape that I sang 2 songs in a 4-hour show....I don't know what to tell ya.
8 minutes is somehow that big a deal?
I use it as a means to either change the direction of the night if it's not going the right way or enhance it by following what the last few singers did to keep things going the way they are.
but 8 minutes means that we are stealing huge amounts of stage time for the room full of singers?
no....it's 8 minutes over 4 hours.
singing a song is feeding the host's ego?
no, feeding one's ego would be setting up on stage next to the singer to be in front of everybody like a DJ does, THAT is feeding a host's ego.
why is everyone so upset about 8 minutes? we lose more time than that with singers doing a 4-minute song instead of a 3-minute song over the night.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:02 am 
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While I agree to some extent that a host is not being paid for singing, as a singer, as long as the host doesn't have a packed house of singers, I have no problem with them in the rotation. It all depends upon time constraints. I would rather sing the first one and then let my singers do the rest. I don't need or want to be the center of attention while being paid. Leave that to the customers. My job as Alan states it is to facilitate and get as many customers singing time as I possibly can. But having one turn to sing for the night isn't any big deal.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:20 am 
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The times I've run a show, I did not include myself in the rotation, but that's just me. When I'm at a show as a singer, I usually don't mind if the KJ sings, but let's talk about the elephant in the room. It really does depend on how well the KJ sings. Some you want to hear. Some you don't. Unfortunately, if you're a KJ and you're not a good singer, the odds are, that you don't know it ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:57 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
The times I've run a show, I did not include myself in the rotation, but that's just me. When I'm at a show as a singer, I usually don't mind if the KJ sings, but let's talk about the elephant in the room. It really does depend on how well the KJ sings. Some you want to hear. Some you don't. Unfortunately, if you're a KJ and you're not a good singer, the odds are, that you don't know it ;)



Which proves my contention that none of us really have an objective view of our singing skills. To be truthful my performance skills have improved since I stopped hosting. For me personally I like to stay focused on running the show when hosting. Now that I perform more I take more care in selecting songs suited to my range. Also I use a program called Karaoke Surgeon to customize my discs so the host doesn't have to make any adjustments, just feed the disc. For those with just PC no disc playing ability, I have songs I know I can sing off the rack, no adjustments.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:01 am 
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Alan B wrote:
You need to get your priorities straight. Karaoke is about the people who came out to sing. They are the ones making the bar money. It's not about you and your ego. A host should never include himself/herself into the rotation.


Here's where I'll absolutely disagree, with everyone's favorite--anecdotal evidence!

There *absolutely* isn't a one-size-fits-all approach.

1. There was a night where, for the first two hours (likely due to events in town), the bar had me, one other singer, and the host. Had the host not sang, it would have just been me and the other guy, and I'd have left sooner because I'd have been tapped out quicker on the amount I was willing to sing. Had the actual crowd not arrived when they did, I would have definitely left.

2. Not everyone is ready to sing when the night gets started--there are people who need to get some of that "liquid courage" in. Now, me? I don't care at all--I start out most nights sober, at least. But in those cases, what's worse? Me singing all the songs until someone else gets their courage up? Me singing, followed by filler music? Or me and the host singing?

(again, my real preference is for the host to sing at the start of rotations so I have a touchstone for when the rotation starts again, and I'm good with the host singing, singing and pulling themselves out when it gets busy, or not singing at all)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:17 am 
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NoShameKaraoke wrote:

Here's where I'll absolutely disagree, with everyone's favorite--anecdotal evidence!

There *absolutely* isn't a one-size-fits-all approach.

1. There was a night where, for the first two hours (likely due to events in town), the bar had me, one other singer, and the host. Had the host not sang, it would have just been me and the other guy, and I'd have left sooner because I'd have been tapped out quicker on the amount I was willing to sing. Had the actual crowd not arrived when they did, I would have definitely left.

2. Not everyone is ready to sing when the night gets started--there are people who need to get some of that "liquid courage" in. Now, me? I don't care at all--I start out most nights sober, at least. But in those cases, what's worse? Me singing all the songs until someone else gets their courage up? Me singing, followed by filler music? Or me and the host singing?

(again, my real preference is for the host to sing at the start of rotations so I have a touchstone for when the rotation starts again, and I'm good with the host singing, singing and pulling themselves out when it gets busy, or not singing at all)


I can only speak to the time I hosted which was before the pandemic. I had a rule that I wouldn't start the karaoke until I had 10 singers, I was doing my DJ thing. Of course everyone knew I started on time, since I usually had more than 10 singers wanting to sing.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:28 am 
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NoShameKaraoke wrote:
Alan B wrote:
You need to get your priorities straight. Karaoke is about the people who came out to sing. They are the ones making the bar money. It's not about you and your ego. A host should never include himself/herself into the rotation.


Here's where I'll absolutely disagree, with everyone's favorite--anecdotal evidence!

There *absolutely* isn't a one-size-fits-all approach.

1. There was a night where, for the first two hours (likely due to events in town), the bar had me, one other singer, and the host. Had the host not sang, it would have just been me and the other guy, and I'd have left sooner because I'd have been tapped out quicker on the amount I was willing to sing. Had the actual crowd not arrived when they did, I would have definitely left.

2. Not everyone is ready to sing when the night gets started--there are people who need to get some of that "liquid courage" in. Now, me? I don't care at all--I start out most nights sober, at least. But in those cases, what's worse? Me singing all the songs until someone else gets their courage up? Me singing, followed by filler music? Or me and the host singing?

(again, my real preference is for the host to sing at the start of rotations so I have a touchstone for when the rotation starts again, and I'm good with the host singing, singing and pulling themselves out when it gets busy, or not singing at all)


NoShameKaraoke:
Alan is just angry with me and will disagree with anything I post. Even if I said that the grass was green and the sky is blue, he would argue.

Anyway, I agree with what you are saying as well. It all depends on the venues needs and situation. It might change from night to night, or week to week. I only host one show per week now, and it's a very small country bar that is hit and miss pretty much all the time. Most nights there are plenty of people in the bar, but not many singers. It really isn't much of a karaoke crowd honestly, rather than just a watering hole. My rotations usually only get to around 10 or 12 the entire night in the summer, and maybe only 16 or so when it's busier during the colder months. I start at 9, and for the first hour or so it's usually only me, my better half and maybe if I am lucky, two other guys. That gives me a total of 4 singers including me. So during that one hour, each of us usually get to sing 4 songs. If I didn't sing, then neither would my fiance. That would leave only the one guy, and if I was lucky, the second guy. This is the norm for this place. By 10 or 10:30 I can get a few more there, and if I get enough added singers then I pull myself.

On the opposite hand, I had this one show years ago where I had them lined up to sing while I was setting up. At that venue, I wouldn't even sing at all. I would have one of my regulars do sound check. This show started at 8 and went till 1 and usually had rotations of 30 plus. Most singers got only 2 songs, so I felt it wasn't right at all that I took any time.

So, my point is, that every single venue is different. Some bars are dive bars that cater to a wide range of types of people. Some bars have the ability to cater or specialize in karaoke, others not. Yet some places cannot even seem to get a regular crowd at all, no matter what a host does. Bar owners have a lot to do with that and where their goals are, or even if they have goals at all.

So for someone to say it's all about the ego of the host when they sing in rotation, that statement can be so far from the truth it borders on stupidity, or at least ignorance.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:36 am 
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Alan B wrote:
mrscott wrote:
Every venue and it's needs are different, and so are the hosts.

It equates to: "What is the proper way to eat an apple?"

Totally ridiculous answer. The venue doesn't matter nor should it justify a host including himself into the rotation. You are there to host the show and bring in customers so the bar makes money. You are not there to sing.

You need to get your priorities straight. Karaoke is about the people who came out to sing. They are the ones making the bar money. It's not about you and your ego. A host should never include himself/herself into the rotation.


Nope, karaoke might be about and for the singers, but the reason the host is there is to make the venue money, pretty much anyway they can with the tools and situation laid out before them. The situation might be different every single night and every single venue.


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