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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 6:06 am 
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Your suggestions?

I inquire because the activity on this forum since i joined years ago seems to be at an all time low...in my opinion.

I always thought it would be even more HELPFUL if Paradigm or Lonman had their OWN equipment review or advice columns to share their advanced knowledge on sound..instead of having to look thru 1,000+ threads to glean some of it.

Bastiat should have his OWN column to share his very interesting life, lessons, and experience as a producer of tracks, as well as, sharing the knowledge he has on LAWS pertaining to this industry. He's well written too and an interesting read imo.

JD should have his own column as well sharing ALL THINGS COMPUTERS.

Alan could have his very own sarcastic-fun BASHING column.

Danny could have his own "I CHANGED MY MIND... AGAIN/ HELP ME column.

Etc.....

I just think there are TOO many sections on this forum to navigate and too few members involved...down sizing may be a good idea or adding/renaming a few of them may spark more participation.

btw.. intended with respects to forum owners, staff, and mods...

What do Y-O-U think??? Any opinions?? :) :dontknow: -john


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 6:33 am 
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8) As far as being helpful and supportive don't forget Mrmarog, Brian, RLC and Cueball. I'm a little surprised that you didn't mention a PEP/SC beat section. Since of course Jim H no longer has any official standing with PEP I don't know who would write it, maybe Cousin Vinnie since Chris hasn't posted in a rather long time? Chip could provide the counter editorial view to PEP.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:10 am 
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Reviews are posted as new equipment/software releases are noticed.

Mods have the ability to "Pin" a topic so it stays near the top of that area.

SC/Pep could have a section (If they wished to) however the site management requires sponsorship class membership.

The large number of threads exist primarily due to the time lag. By that, I mean threads float down, and another thread is started, close to or exactly like the one the drops from sight.

Phill will chip in I suspect..


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 6:49 pm 
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jdmeister wrote:

SC/Pep could have a section (If they wished to) however the site management requires sponsorship class membership.



Do you think the people at SC/PEP want to actually PAY to be abused? Being as they are... they probably want Karaoke Scene to pay them or they might sue if the logo pops up on here too much ! :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 7:33 pm 
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Toastedmuffin wrote:
jdmeister wrote:

SC/Pep could have a section (If they wished to) however the site management requires sponsorship class membership.



Do you think the people at SC/PEP want to actually PAY to be abused? Being as they are... they probably want Karaoke Scene to pay them or they might sue if the logo pops up on here too much ! :lol:


'ya think? Their very own customers are playing Whack-A-Mole.
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:13 pm 
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johnreynolds wrote:
Your suggestions?

I inquire because the activity on this forum since i joined years ago seems to be at an all time low...in my opinion.

I always thought it would be even more HELPFUL if Paradigm or Lonman had their OWN equipment review or advice columns to share their advanced knowledge on sound..instead of having to look thru 1,000+ threads to glean some of it.

Bastiat should have his OWN column to share his very interesting life, lessons, and experience as a producer of tracks, as well as, sharing the knowledge he has on LAWS pertaining to this industry. He's well written too and an interesting read imo.

JD should have his own column as well sharing ALL THINGS COMPUTERS.

Alan could have his very own sarcastic-fun BASHING column.

Danny could have his own "I CHANGED MY MIND... AGAIN/ HELP ME column.

Etc.....

I just think there are TOO many sections on this forum to navigate and too few members involved...down sizing may be a good idea or adding/renaming a few of them may spark more participation.

btw.. intended with respects to forum owners, staff, and mods...

What do Y-O-U think??? Any opinions?? :) :dontknow: -john


How about a few quiz games like, who sang it first,
best or worst versions.

A library of manufacturers, past and present, when,
where how long were they around, any interesting
facts about them

Vcd and dvd.karaoke chatrooms also.

A continuous merry go round for new song requests,
Lonman does a great job Of new song request listings,
but it seems to fall between the cracks from disuse,
Keep the song rotation fresh with different categories
such as hard rock, new wave, classic country etc?
That you would like to see added.

Add a broadcast box to let others know when a song,
you or they want becomes available.

I know these are not new ideas, but any idea that one
member brings to mind, can always be improved on by
others, just my opinion, I love to read these forums, and
Understand that it is a mass of humanity searching for
their niche, i also applaud Rick and many others at
karaokescene magazine, for making it the best there is!


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 8:26 am 
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If facebook goes under.


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 5:26 pm 
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rickgood wrote:
If facebook goes under.


Facebook caused a great deal of traffic loss to this website and several others.

One thing that is better to use - you can follow different posts and comments much easier.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 2:55 pm 
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Don't get me wrong--I like it here. I keep coming back.

But sometimes, on the forums that are not the showcase, I feel like I'm the only singer posting.

And I don't feel like Showcase stuff is karaoke--it's home recording.

Maybe invite some of your diehard singers to join, if they really love karaoke and like discussing it.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:24 pm 
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It seems that the current belief is that 90% of KJs are pirates. If that is truly the case; it would probably mean that 90% of karaoke singers support those particular KJ's shows. This particular karaoke Forum comes down pretty hard on people who support these KJs so it is obvious why the amount of members who post on a regular basis has dropped by about 90% What this forum is left with is the 10% that is left. That 10% agree on just about everything karaoke related so there is never any room for any interesting debate on a particular topic. Chip is the only one left that is fighting the good fight. Every other member who didn't agree with Sound Choice has made the choice to avoid the bickering and take their on-line time somewhere else. By now; even most of the Cheerleaders have disappeared. The Forum has become as homogeneous as possible and that's why people don't bother to come here and post very often.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:49 pm 
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KJKILLER wrote:
It seems that the current belief is that 90% of KJs are pirates. If that is truly the case; it would probably mean that 90% of karaoke singers support those particular KJ's shows. This particular karaoke Forum comes down pretty hard on people who support these KJs so it is obvious why the amount of members who post on a regular basis has dropped by about 90% What this forum is left with is the 10% that is left. That 10% agree on just about everything karaoke related so there is never any room for any interesting debate on a particular topic. Chip is the only one left that is fighting the good fight. Every other member who didn't agree with Sound Choice has made the choice to avoid the bickering and take their on-line time somewhere else. By now; even most of the Cheerleaders have disappeared. The Forum has become as homogeneous as possible and that's why people don't bother to come here and post very often.

That's an interesting perspective, although I personally think that karaoke is beyond its peak, and has much to do with it. As a label/producer I'm definitely anti-piracy but chasing out karaoke enthusiasts irrespective as to how they acquire their library seems counter productive. I always thought that it is better to be inclusive of everyone and be a positive influence on a would be pirate rather than isolating them which in the end will win over nobody. The KIAA began its journey as an all inclusive organization for all karaoke enthusiasts with a kinder, gentler way of dealing with piracy, but unfortunately the KIAA ended up being co-opted and morphed into an anti-piracy organization which in the end not only abandoned its original mission, but also failed as an anti-piracy organization. Maybe there's a takeaway from that. Maybe there's a way to be more accepting of the KJs without being accepting of any acts of piracy. IF that can be figured out then maybe the membership and participation will grow. I dunno, and maybe I'm a bit naive, but I'd hate to think that 90% of all KJs are pirates, but whatever the number is it's unacceptable when the content creators can't sell enough product to continue creating, and the honest KJ can't charge a fair market fee for their services.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:12 pm 
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Bastiat, it is refreshing that as a ex-karaoke producer you are very naive to many things about karaoke. On the flip side it seems a;most impossible that you produced so much successfully. No offense meant on either statement. Many questions that you ask are 'karaoke 101" questions.

I would say with certainty that at least 90% of all KJ's own little or none of their music. This forum, as pointed out, has driven pirates out of here, and with them a lot of conversation about a myriad of topics. Many topics, when addressed, make it clear that the OP does not own their music and WHAM they get hammered.

KS will never be what it was because of piracy and Sound Choice. It is very nice to hear your occasional "Stellar" remark that gives us insight to the inner workings of the karaoke industry.

All of us that own our music would like to see karaoke continue for years to come because of our investment, and we all would like to make more per gig. We would also like to have more than a handful of contributors here at KS. What should we do? Turn a blind eye to an obvious pirate, or take a softer stance, or continue as we have and lose even more posters.

I have no answer!


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Well I'm with you in not having any answers, but I do know what some of the answers are not. I know that in order to grow you can't alienate your base even if that base is not quite of the quality you would like it to be. Here again I'll bring up the KIAA and some of the debates we had at its outset if I can do that without naming names. There was a good deal of discussion early on as to how high we should set the bar for admission into the organization. It was my contention that we set the bar low and offer different levels of membership based on the integrity of the KJ and other factors. My vision was that a member that achieved a certain level would be eligible for certain benefits such as group health insurance and other incentives that we could offer through the purchasing power of the collective. My opposition however wanted to insist upon a complete and total verification of a KJ's library in order to qualify even at an entry level. I saw this as a recipe for failure. I guess I could say "I told you so", however there's no proof that my approach would have guaranteed success. As Bastiat himself would say "That Which Is Seen and That Which is Not Seen".

In any event, I think one must understand the root of all piracy and all of its ugly tentacles. It starts at the top with the publishers and trickles its way down to the KJ. Once the problem as a whole is understood it becomes easier to search for solutions to those problems. So indeed I may be somewhat naive, but I can also see things as their core. I'll leave with another quote from Bastiat ... "When plunder becomes a way of life, men create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 5:43 am 
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In any event, I think one must understand the root of all piracy and all of its ugly tentacles. It starts at the top with the publishers and trickles its way down to the KJ. Once the problem as a whole is understood it becomes easier to search for solutions to those problems. So indeed I may be somewhat naive, but I can also see things as their core. I'll leave with another quote from Bastiat ... "When plunder becomes a way of life, men create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."


Music publishers here in the US have a bad rep over paying monies due the rights holder/s.
Sort of an organized PONZI scheme.
The term "Creative Accounting" surely was not invented by the music publishing groups, but jumped on as a basic business plan.
Ask any musician how he makes money, he tours and sell tee-shirts.
If you are not aware of these stories, you may not have access to Google.com.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:06 am 
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IT'S JUST NOT 90% OF THE KJs THAT BOUGHT PRE-LOADED HARD DRIVES FILLED WITH KARAOKE MUSIC. The average karaoke singer was buying them too and practicing at home with a library of 100,000 songs or more for just a few hundred dollars. Other figured out how to file share karaoke files on line. Those people were high fiving each other but knew enough not to come to a site like this one and brag about the size of their libraries. Piracy became a taboo topic and people that brought it up or even hinted at it were shot down immediately. Those people found other on line singing sites to post their songs and talk about karaoke with other like minded people. Hardly anyone posts their songs on the showcase and hardly anyone listens and comments any longer. People were told that if they didn't have something positive to say; they shouldn't say anything. Many of those people went somewhere else too. They got tired of having to read ridiculous comments left for the sole purpose of getting other people to praise their sad attempts at singing. It was like watching a slide show of someone else's children while on vacation. All you're expected to say is how adorable the kids are and nothing else. That gets old real fast.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:17 am 
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Hardly anyone posts their songs on the showcase and hardly anyone listens and comments any longer. People were told that if they didn't have something positive to say; they shouldn't say anything. Many of those people went somewhere else too. They got tired of having to read ridiculous comments left for the sole purpose of getting other people to praise their sad attempts at singing.


Bringing you up to date, traffic here has slowed down a bit, due in part to "FaceBook".

Recording singing at home or from a stage is difficult, and that's why professionals use a studio.

If someone doesn't know this, he/she may say something rude about a posted song.

I don't think rude comments speak to the singer, but to the poster.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:27 pm 
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jdmeister wrote:
Music publishers here in the US have a bad rep over paying monies due the rights holder/s.
Sort of an organized PONZI scheme.
The term "Creative Accounting" surely was not invented by the music publishing groups, but jumped on as a basic business plan.
Ask any musician how he makes money, he tours and sell tee-shirts.
If you are not aware of these stories, you may not have access to Google.com.

Most musicians that I know don't tour, or make their money by selling tee-shirts or any kind of swag. That is a very small minority of musicians. Most musicians I know make their money teaching, playing gigs and/or studio calls, maybe selling a few CDs here and there. However if you're comparing today's model with the models of yesteryear, then you'd be correct in thinking that long gone are the days when many musicians/artists are guaranteed a huge income from recording hit records. There are lots of reasons for that, but it's not because revenues of music sales are down. In fact revenue from music sales are better than they've ever been according to the RIAA. It's just that the revenue sources are now coming from downloads, streaming, and social media platforms etc. It's more than likely because the market is saturated with artists and the old guard is still dictating the revenue shares. Think about it, every year there are multitudes of new artists in every genre, that just keeping adding to the music inventory. It's not like the older songs wear out like a pair of faded jeans, and while their popularity does wane with time, they still remain in the market place and take a share of the revenue pie, and now the publishers and artists want to pass the "Classics Act" which in my opinion is an abomination just like the Sonny Bono act was. It's a different era and an entirely different model. We haven't seen the final product yet as the models are still seeking their own levels, but you can be sure that the major record labels and publishers will do their best to maintain power, control and the lion's share of the market.

jdmeister wrote:
Bringing you up to date, traffic here has slowed down a bit, due in part to "FaceBook".

Recording singing at home or from a stage is difficult, and that's why professionals use a studio.

If someone doesn't know this, he/she may say something rude about a posted song.

I don't think rude comments speak to the singer, but to the poster.

I'm sure that Facebook has cut into this website like it has with others. While I won't pretend to know anything about this type of business, I do know that all businesses in general grow to a point where changing their model is difficult. It's not that the management or ownership don't understand that the model is dying, it's just that trying to head that ship in another direction is like trying to turn the Titanic around. I saw it happen in my own business. We built our model around disc sales, but could see that downloads/streaming was the future, but a) the publishers wouldn't allow us to sell downloads at the time and b) how do you transition from selling 9 songs discs at $18 to $20 retail, to single downloads at .99 to 1.29? Companies like Karaoke Version had a huge advantage seeing they weren't strapped down with any baggage from a disc model not to mention a mega inventory of CDs. They still outsource their content from people like Bob Blank, etc. but nevertheless the model for downloads works a lot better than the disc model. Could even that model change? Sure it can, but it's not likely until such time as a streaming model can serve up content as reliably as the hard drive on a KJs laptop.

As far as recording vocals at home ... actually anyone can set up a home recording studio for a few hundred bucks and some basic knowledge of acoustics and recording principles and can get results at least equal to vocal recordings of the 60's, 70's and 80's, etc. You can even get free recording software such as Audacity (isn't quite a professional level DAW that has some limitations, like destructive editing and is known to occasionally lose files) which is more than sufficient for what you've described, or for about $60 you can legitimately own a copy of Reaper (my personal choice) which is a professional grade DAW.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:00 pm 
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KJKILLER wrote:
IT'S JUST NOT 90% OF THE KJs THAT BOUGHT PRE-LOADED HARD DRIVES FILLED WITH KARAOKE MUSIC. The average karaoke singer was buying them too and practicing at home with a library of 100,000 songs or more for just a few hundred dollars. Other figured out how to file share karaoke files on line. Those people were high fiving each other but knew enough not to come to a site like this one and brag about the size of their libraries. Piracy became a taboo topic and people that brought it up or even hinted at it were shot down immediately. Those people found other on line singing sites to post their songs and talk about karaoke with other like minded people. Hardly anyone posts their songs on the showcase and hardly anyone listens and comments any longer. People were told that if they didn't have something positive to say; they shouldn't say anything. Many of those people went somewhere else too. They got tired of having to read ridiculous comments left for the sole purpose of getting other people to praise their sad attempts at singing. It was like watching a slide show of someone else's children while on vacation. All you're expected to say is how adorable the kids are and nothing else. That gets old real fast.


As a content producer I always tried to pay special attention to marketing data, and a statistic like 90% is a ground shattering statistic, and not something I would ignore. I paid for many marketing studies, some of which cost tens of thousands of dollars in attempting to identify things like infringed music amongst other marketing trends, both globally and demographically. I was quite aware of the 90% or similarly high percentage allegations of infringed product but could never get anyone or any study to confirm this with any degree of consistency. With that being said, I do believe that that number is a very real possibility, but because thus far it has not been verified to my satisfaction, I could never go forward with a marketing plan based on that alleged statistic. I'm not trying being coy here, but if you know of any research, or reliable studies, data, statistics, etc. that could point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated.

As far as the rest of your post, I understand your frustration, and can see why many of you had a limited tolerance for these infringers. Probably not a lot different than the frustration we experienced as content producers when we saw some of our competitors releasing unlicensed MIDI recordings that severely cut into our market share simply because they were able to get them to market before anyone else, or the frustration of seeing what seemed to be like 10 or more times the amount of product in the marketplace than we actually sold.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:52 am 
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Bastiat wrote:
As a content producer I always tried to pay special attention to marketing data, and a statistic like 90% is a ground shattering statistic, and not something I would ignore. I paid for many marketing studies, some of which cost tens of thousands of dollars in attempting to identify things like infringed music amongst other marketing trends, both globally and demographically. I was quite aware of the 90% or similarly high percentage allegations of infringed product but could never get anyone or any study to confirm this with any degree of consistency. With that being said, I do believe that that number is a very real possibility, but because thus far it has not been verified to my satisfaction, I could never go forward with a marketing plan based on that alleged statistic. I'm not trying being coy here, but if you know of any research, or reliable studies, data, statistics, etc. that could point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated.

As far as the rest of your post, I understand your frustration, and can see why many of you had a limited tolerance for these infringers. Probably not a lot different than the frustration we experienced as content producers when we saw some of our competitors releasing unlicensed MIDI recordings that severely cut into our market share simply because they were able to get them to market before anyone else, or the frustration of seeing what seemed to be like 10 or more times the amount of product in the marketplace than we actually sold.


I think part of the problem was created by the producers themselves -- wanting all of the pie(s) from all the different markets. If I remember correctly, back in the 90's when all this discussion began with the advent of Golden Hawk software, I had suggested that manufacturers sell their product(s) to vetted professional KJ's only -- at much higher prices just as the Pioneer laser discs were sold at $160 for 27 songs.

Even DK and SC at the time were close to $40 for 15-18 songs, but it was explained to me (by you if I recall) that the difference was that the retail market "bought more product, but even though KJ's bought more discs per sale, it paled by comparison" so it was definitely a market-driven distribution plan. I was also told that increasing the price of the product would encourage more piracy, not less.

Because of this public-distribution plan, the producers may have sold more discs at Wal*Mart or Target stores, but look where it eventually ended up. Not much difference because the wider distribution, the more opportunity for the general public to share files.

I have always been for a more difficult entry into the karaoke business, economically or otherwise. Producers were always looking for additional marketing channels and methods to push more discs to the public. The drop from 15-18 songs to "9+9 demonstration tracks" was (in my opinion) a move to sell less songs on a disc at a more profitable level and specifically for the wider general public. Professional KJ's don't use vocal tracks in their business, those are strictly for the "home market."

Also, producers that weren't playing by the "license first, sell next rule" were the true beginnings of piracy in this business. Enough piracy to kill off DK's product completely in the U.S. by the late 90's. You and I know for a fact that there were discs put out much faster than anyone could possibly license the content.

So, I would place at least SOME of the responsibility for the widespread piracy squarely on the shoulders of the producers in this business. The pirate producers for sure and the rest driven by only mass disc sales and not a cultivation of the professional marketplace or self-policing measures.

Producers controlled the access from day #1 and their own plan(s) swept them away.


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