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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:27 pm 
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This is my first post on this forum, but I'm not sure where else I would find a discussion group for the right caliber equipment I'm asking about.

I want to put together a smaller, more portable, and cheaper karaoke system than my current setup, and one thing I'm having trouble deciding about is microphones. One venue I want to use it in is really limited in terms of space, and does not have anything resembling a "stage." I'm concerned about mic cables being a cause of injuries to drunk customers.

Thus far, I've used fairly professional mics, both wired and wireless; and have been happy with their durability, sound quality, and feedback rejection. I use Heil PR20 / PR22 wired mics, and Sennheiser wireless.

I was thinking about trying the VocoPro UHF 5805 4 mic wireless system for this new setup, but the one VocoPro wired mic I have used before is pretty much junk. Are these mics likely to be any better, or should I just stick with Sennheiser? The price difference is significant -- $350 for the VocoPro 4 mic system, vs about $350 each for the Sennheisers.

Here is a link to the VocoPro system I am considering:
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/VocoPro-UHF5805-Rechargable-Wireless-Mic-System?sku=271214

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:03 pm 
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I can't vouch for that particular unit, but I did try one of the dual vocopro's and it was horrible. It clipped/distorted very easily and one Mic stopped working altogether after a few weeks. I wouldn't even recommend them for home use. I bit the bullet and got Shure PGX2/SM58's and couldn't be happier.

When it comes to wireless mics, in my experience you DO get what you pay for.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:05 pm 
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VocoPro is like another word for junk around here. But anyway, I’ve used the VocoPro UHF-5800 wireless mic’s for over 2 years now with no problems and no complaints. I would say they’re good enough. But they will be a little thin and carry the highs a bit more than a good mic. I have to pull the highs down and push the low up for some of the female singers. But other than that I’m happy with mine.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:55 pm 
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I have tried many wireless systems over the years before ending up with the vocopro UHF 5800. dollar for dollar these mics have been the best for wear and tear for a commercial use karaoke mic system I have found. Not the best but for the dollar and longevity you can't beat it. they are very good about servicing usally a one week turn around. CAUTION don't buy the UHF 5805 rechargable system these mics are crap! all kinds of problems, very flimsy top's pop off and battery longevity problems. You are better off getting the 5800's and getting a battery charger.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:07 pm 
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I do not like the VocoPro wireless mics at all. The lower-end ones are terrible, the ones that have a black ball/grille. The higher end four-way with the chrome baskets is a little better. I sing through those often, because my favorite dinner show has them. Muddy with poor gain before feedback. If I am honest, I will say they do have pretty consistent off-axis response. That is the one area where most of the cheap wireless mics, your Nadys and Pyles and Geminis, fall down terribly.

I prefer the AKG WMS40 -- for $350.00 you get two microphones that while not great are not bad. They also have excellent battery life and very good durability.

I use the Shure PGX2/SM58 myself. If I had purchased those initially, I would have saved myself the $600.00 or so I spent trying cheap wireless mics that didn't cut the mustard.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:58 pm 
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I have been using the UHF-5800's for about 3 years. I got them when they first came out. As stated above, there are many haters on anything VocoPro. They had a bad experience 10 years ago or something. I didn't karaoke 10 years ago, so I could care less about any brand 10 years ago. I only get compliments on their quaility. Maybe I am just a master mixer, and can make anything sound good. They have been droped and used at least twice a week for this time with absolutely no problems.

Sound great, Durable.

Felix the KJ
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:08 am 
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I suppose I'll give them a try. My vendor of choice has a good return policy anyway, so I'll just avoid cautioning my singers about abusing the mics for a few weeks and if they don't survive or they notice a drastic difference in vocal clarity, I'll send them back.

I was really afraid they would be junk like an older VocoPro wired mic I used once. It tempted me to start carrying my own mic with me when I go to other bars. How offensive that would be to other KJs though.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:59 am 
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jeffsw6 @ Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:08 am wrote:
I suppose I'll give them a try. My vendor of choice has a good return policy anyway, so I'll just avoid cautioning my singers about abusing the mics for a few weeks and if they don't survive or they notice a drastic difference in vocal clarity, I'll send them back.

I was really afraid they would be junk like an older VocoPro wired mic I used once. It tempted me to start carrying my own mic with me when I go to other bars. How offensive that would be to other KJs though.

They aren't real good, so don't get your hopes up. Look at the setups of people recommending them, is my suggestion. Sounds like you have a pretty much pro audio bent from your other posts, and the VocoPro is not pro-level equipment.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:56 am 
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They Sssssuuuck! They have way too much highs, and not enough low end, especially when it comes to female singers. sounds too tinny for my ear, and its hard to pick up low singers without getting feedback.

The special effects don't seem to come through well either.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:19 am 
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fsapienjr @ Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:58 am wrote:
They had a bad experience 10 years ago or something.


FWIW...I had my VocoPro bad experience six months ago. Again, my mics weren't the top of the line VocoPro either...those may perform much better.

To each his own, but I chose to go with proven, pro-gear. I couldn't remember ever seeing a VocoPro Wireless Mic at a concert or the Grammy's...but I sure have seen a lot of Shures.

Another reason I went with the Shure is the modularity of design. The transmitter, mic head & ball can all be replaced/upgraded separately, which I like.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:42 am 
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BarryKaraoke @ Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:19 am wrote:
fsapienjr @ Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:58 am wrote:
They had a bad experience 10 years ago or something.


FWIW...I had my VocoPro bad experience six months ago. Again, my mics weren't the top of the line VocoPro either...those may perform much better.

To each his own, but I chose to go with proven, pro-gear. I couldn't remember ever seeing a VocoPro Wireless Mic at a concert or the Grammy's...but I sure have seen a lot of Shures.

Another reason I went with the Shure is the modularity of design. The transmitter, mic head & ball can all be replaced/upgraded separately, which I like.


Badda-bing. The head is easily replaced for $79.99. I have the SM58s, and I absolutely love them. I completely enjoy the singing experience on my system, so I'm sure my singers do as well. :D

Microphones are such an important part of the overall system for karaoke. Feedback supression, dynamic range, and compatability with effects there is more to them than just trying to amplify the vocal...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:06 am 
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jeffsw6 @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:27 pm wrote:
This is my first post on this forum, but I'm not sure where else I would find a discussion group for the right caliber equipment I'm asking about.

I want to put together a smaller, more portable, and cheaper karaoke system than my current setup, and one thing I'm having trouble deciding about is microphones. One venue I want to use it in is really limited in terms of space, and does not have anything resembling a "stage." I'm concerned about mic cables being a cause of injuries to drunk customers.

Thus far, I've used fairly professional mics, both wired and wireless; and have been happy with their durability, sound quality, and feedback rejection. I use Heil PR20 / PR22 wired mics, and Sennheiser wireless.

I was thinking about trying the VocoPro UHF 5805 4 mic wireless system for this new setup, but the one VocoPro wired mic I have used before is pretty much junk. Are these mics likely to be any better, or should I just stick with Sennheiser? The price difference is significant -- $350 for the VocoPro 4 mic system, vs about $350 each for the Sennheisers.

Here is a link to the VocoPro system I am considering:
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/VocoPro-UHF5805-Rechargable-Wireless-Mic-System?sku=271214

Thanks


Jeff
I've been using a NADY DUO set for the last few months - It is a VHF system and if you have a close set up like mine -It may be worth looking into. It is EXTREMELY affordable and worth 10x the $50 you will pay for it. FOR $50 you have to try it out. SO FAR the system has been dependable and with a little tweaking on the channel strip --sound the same as my wired SM58 but offers the wireless advantages. And if some drunk drops it .... They only drop a $50 mic not a $600 one. :wink: DON'T LET THE PRICE FOOL YOU


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:05 am 
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Well I thought they were cheap junk. It turns out they are not so bad. I just purchased a set for one of my employees systems. They work very good. Now I do have a 4 band parametirc eq on his mixer and yes the EQ has to be used on these mics. For the price they do a very nice job.

Make sure you buy Frequency range 3 or 4. The onld units are 1 and 2 and operate in the 700Mhz+ range.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:09 am 
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jamkaraoke @ Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:06 am wrote:
And if some drunk drops it .... They only drop a $50 mic not a $600 one. :wink:


And you only need to drop that $50 mic once to kill it. ;-)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:00 am 
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mckyj57 @ Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:59 am wrote:
They aren't real good, so don't get your hopes up. Look at the setups of people recommending them, is my suggestion. Sounds like you have a pretty much pro audio bent from your other posts, and the VocoPro is not pro-level equipment.

This is true; the reason I looked for a karaoke-oriented forum is the one I usually read is all pro-audio guys who would never consider something like VocoPro. But then, I use Kustom speakers which were super cheap, I figured if I didn't like them I could just return them, and I like my $90 Kustom wedges and $200 2-1/2-ways so much I never take my JBLs out of the trailer anymore. So you never know when something cheap is going to surprise you, but those pro-audio guys can be snooty and too focused on brand name. :)

My current system is fairly professional, my current pride and joy is an ART XL231 GEQ I use for my monitor mixes. But everything I own so far needs to be suitable for bands also. This new rig, basically is for karaoke at a bar about 30 minutes away from my house. I do not want to tow my trailer there and back once or twice a week if I can get away with stuff that will fit in the back of my Suburban. Also, my friend's son will be doing this gig sometimes too, so I am doing some things differently than I would if more experienced people would be the primary users.

So if some context is helpful, here is what I am intending to use at that gig:
* Mics - have not decided yet
* Behringer Xenyx 2442FX (this is my backup mixer right now; fits in rack top)
* Behringer expander / compressors for mic channels, MDX4600
* Behringer DEQ1024 FoH EQ with "feedback destroyer" function (ease-of-use)
* Behringer DCX2496 digital cross-over
* Behringer EP2500 power amp, x2 if we decide to use a sub and stage monitors
might change my mind and get more Crown XTi 2000s here, or use EP2500s at my other gigs where I have a separate rack just for amps, because the Behringer ones are twice the weight of the Crown amps
* Behringer FBQ2496 "feedback destroyer" for monitor mix, assuming we even use a stage monitor there, the place didn't have a "stage" when I was there last summer
* Kustom KPC15M FoH full-range, I already own a number of these and I think they are powerful enough for the room; if not I have bigger speakers but might buy Behringer B1520 Pros or maybe a couple of Yamaha SM15Vs
* Peavey 118 sub, if we decide to use a sub at all, I already own some of these and they are not hard to put in the back of a truck without help, and mine have wheels on them too :)

So this is not really "professional" stuff, but it's kinda close; and some things that really should be done manually, e.g. adjusting for feedback, will be done by electronic guess-work to make the equipment easier to operate.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:23 am 
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I went ahead and ordered the VocoPro 5805 kit. I'll put a couple on my stage next week along with a Heil PR20 and a Sennheiser ew135g2 and see if they hate the VocoPro or not.

Interestingly, Musician's Friend has that extended warranty stuff now, so I bought the 2 year warranty that promises to repair / replace problems caused by accidental damage like drops and spills, too. So if they end up working out okay, I might get a chance to try that warranty if they turn out to be not very durable.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:59 pm 
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jeffsw6 @ Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:00 pm wrote:
mckyj57 @ Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:59 am wrote:
They aren't real good, so don't get your hopes up. Look at the setups of people recommending them, is my suggestion. Sounds like you have a pretty much pro audio bent from your other posts, and the VocoPro is not pro-level equipment.

So you never know when something cheap is going to surprise you, but those pro-audio guys can be snooty and too focused on brand name. :)

.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:59 pm 
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NEVER buy the extended warranty. This is like buying a lottery ticket and the odds are NOT in your favor, if they were, there wouldn't be any such thing as an extended warranty.
I too like a good bargain and have been known to buy cheap and usually learn a lesson. I've never heard anything good about vocopro either here or out and about. I've heard them, and thought they were good until I bought my 3 shure sm58s including 2 wireless that I bought used at a total price of $350. Then those vocopro sound like yucko, and not just saying that. But, good luck, let us know short and long term how they work out for you.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:38 am 
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I won't buy Vocopro just because I don't want to support the company selling CDG players that won't work. We've got a brand new one that has been sent back 3 times (last year--not 10 years ago) until we gave up and bought vintage on EBay.

But I am not against using cheap wireless mics as long as you have a good back-up mic available for the more "serious" singers. Wireless are fun for a lot of people but they do get dropped. I keep waiting for our Nadys to die so I will have incentive to remove the spectre of MickyJs disapproving face from hovering over our show. But so far they have been dropped twice and last week a guy got angry at his friends and slammed the Nady down hard on the bar. Still ticking. Must be a punishment of some sort. On the other hand, the Friday hosts had a brand new $400 wireless that was dropped once and died.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:36 am 
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leopard lizard @ Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:38 pm wrote:
I keep waiting for our Nadys to die so I will have incentive to remove the spectre of MickyJs disapproving face from hovering over our show.

8-)

I don't say anything, or even make faces, when I visit a show. Nothing stops me from thinking it.

Quote:
But so far they have been dropped twice and last week a guy got angry at his friends and slammed the Nady down hard on the bar. Still ticking. Must be a punishment of some sort.

It isn't just not working, it's what state they are working in. The worst part is when they appear to "work", but they have poor off-axis response. What I mean by that is that depending on how you are holding the mic, or how it is rotated (switch up, down, or to one side) the pattern changes. This makes singing through the mic very disconcerting, because you can have it seem to work fine one time and not the next.

We had a thread where people proved you could tell the difference. When I am singing through one of those cheap things, I can really tell the difference. *Especially* for my baritone voice. Tenors and female singers don't face the same issues. (I am sure that they might face some in shows I run.)

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