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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:29 am 
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Alan, to be fair, the newer Bose systems are better than the older ones. The problem is that they have to spend more money on more equipment to achieve a higher level of sound quality. Like you have stated on other threads, Bose is a marketing genius. What I can't seem to understand is why a person would actually be foolish enough to spend more money than they should on equipment when there are other choices out there that are a LOT less money for quality gear, plus the sound on the other equipment is better than that of the Bose. Bewildering to me, to say the least.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:17 am 
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mrscott wrote:
Alan, to be fair, the newer Bose systems are better than the older ones. The problem is that they have to spend more money on more equipment to achieve a higher level of sound quality. Like you have stated on other threads, Bose is a marketing genius. What I can't seem to understand is why a person would actually be foolish enough to spend more money than they should on equipment when there are other choices out there that are a LOT less money for quality gear, plus the sound on the other equipment is better than that of the Bose. Bewildering to me, to say the least.

It's bewildering to me too. But anyway, you made the right choice in your purchase of the Evolve 50. I have no doubt that you're going to love them as much as I love mine. Truly an amazing accomplishment by Electro-Voice.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:03 am 
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Lonman wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
Brian A wrote:
Robin Dean wrote:
I'm currently using two L1 Model II w/B2's, and a T4S stereo mixer.

It's the best sounding small system I've had to date, and I've had just about everything over the years. YMMV

I agree. Robin, I have the same – Bose L1 Model II with B2 subwoofer and T4S Tonematch Audio Engine. It delivers hard pumpin’ bass and high clarity sound.

Question please @ MrScott: You mentioned the kj was using two bose sticks. Was there a B2 sub? and/or T4s? Thanks.
Attachment:
BoseL1.png

agreed, bass is one thing i am NEVER lacking with the Bose.
what? You have lows with Bose?

Yes, with 2-B2's (4-10's total) there is plenty of bass for karaoke.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:56 pm 
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Robin Dean wrote:
Lonman wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
Brian A wrote:
Robin Dean wrote:
I'm currently using two L1 Model II w/B2's, and a T4S stereo mixer.

It's the best sounding small system I've had to date, and I've had just about everything over the years. YMMV

I agree. Robin, I have the same – Bose L1 Model II with B2 subwoofer and T4S Tonematch Audio Engine. It delivers hard pumpin’ bass and high clarity sound.

Question please @ MrScott: You mentioned the kj was using two bose sticks. Was there a B2 sub? and/or T4s? Thanks.
Attachment:
BoseL1.png

agreed, bass is one thing i am NEVER lacking with the Bose.
what? You have lows with Bose?

Yes, with 2-B2's (4-10's total) there is plenty of bass for karaoke.

I'm not looking to start a Bose trashing session but I do have a question for Robin:

What provoked you to spend $5997 (based on Sweetwater pricing) for your Bose system when for almost half of that amount you could have gotten a pair of Electro-Voice Evolve 50's which is a much better system in every way. Not only does it sound better but it's twice as powerful, has a higher SPL, and does so many things that Bose cannot.

As said above, it's bewildering.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:59 am 
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mrscott wrote:
Speaking of Bose....

I am traveling and was in Lebanon Tennessee last night and had the first opportunity to sing on a Bose system. First of all let me say the host was fabulous and she was definitely taking pride in her craft. However, the Bose system she had "lacked" in bass response. It just didn't have any "oomph" to it. The sound was otherwise "adequate", but definitely NOT outstanding. The bar itself was set up pretty good, and her placement of her 2 sticks was also far enough from the walls to be efficient (about 5 feet), but the sound was still not what I would call "bragging rights".

I did have fun tho, and that is what counts.


I often wonder why those thumper car radios around town don't use Bose.
I guess it's the lack of "Thump".
And just for the record, if I wanted to hear that crap, I'd be in that car.
Turn it down, get off my lawn.. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:08 am 
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Alan B wrote:
I'm not looking to start a Bose trashing session but I do have a question for Robin:

What provoked you to spend $5997 (based on Sweetwater pricing) for your Bose system when for almost half of that amount you could have gotten a pair of Electro-Voice Evolve 50's which is a much better system in every way. Not only does it sound better but it's twice as powerful, has a higher SPL, and does so many things that Bose cannot.

As said above, it's bewildering.

I just buy what I like for me! Of the current crop of small, self contained, easily portable systems I like this one the best. I like the way I sound singing through this setup. Doesn't really go any farther than that.

I've had EV, JBL, QSC, Peavy, Yamaha, and custom built Galaxy Audio and other systems. All good at the time and in there own right. At this point in my life I don't want or need anything to push SPL over 120.

Not sure why the 'bewilderment', or even why you would expend any thought over my expenditures. For me it's simple discretionary spending on what I want! Live and let live man!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:11 am 
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Robin Dean wrote:
I just buy what I like for me!

OK. Thanks for your response.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:41 pm 
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Bose at Julia's Bistro




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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:31 pm 
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The last thing I would be doing is posting those videos to hear what Bose sounds like. Because they sound like a bunch of distorted sh*t. You're doing an injustice to Bose and even I know that they sound much better in person than what you posted.

Those videos mean nothing and are not impressive to say the least.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:42 pm 
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What's the difference between Dallas Cowboys haters, New England Patriot haters and Bose haters?

Not a damn thing. It's just something they've been doing since the beginning and will continue to do regardless of any changes.

I intend on listening to Evolve 50s someday just because there are some who like them. But if I cannot hook my Bose mixer to it and get the same results I'm currently getting it will be of no use to me. Everyone else's mixers I've ever sung on in a Karaoke setting SUCKS, PERIOD. I know exactly why Simon Cowell used to say some peoples singing sounded karaoke. Because that is exactly what these other mixers sound like with their fixed presets and others limited EFX adjustments.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:46 am 
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My favorite gig to sing at right now uses a Bose. Looks like an L2 but I will confess I haven't checked/asked.

Historically, having sung at many gigs all over the country, the problem with Bose is that only 1 out of 4 KJs seems to be able to get good sound out of them. With good-quality regular setups, 1 out of 2 seems to be able to get it done.

Looking at it with what I hope is dispassion, the downside of Bose for the KJ is limited bang for the buck and difficulty of tuning in the sound. The upside is setup time, as it really seems easier to transport and set up.

As a singer, usually I go to a gig, see a Bose, and think "Oh brother, the sound will lack punch." That is the downside most of the time. The upside is that I will be able to hear myself well.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:00 am 
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mckyj57 wrote:
My favorite gig to sing at right now uses a Bose. Looks like an L2 but I will confess I haven't checked/asked.

Historically, having sung at many gigs all over the country, the problem with Bose is that only 1 out of 4 KJs seems to be able to get good sound out of them. With good-quality regular setups, 1 out of 2 seems to be able to get it done.

Looking at it with what I hope is dispassion, the downside of Bose for the KJ is limited bang for the buck and difficulty of tuning in the sound. The upside is setup time, as it really seems easier to transport and set up.

As a singer, usually I go to a gig, see a Bose, and think "Oh brother, the sound will lack punch." That is the downside most of the time. The upside is that I will be able to hear myself well.


You hit the nail on the head on all points. :) The fact that someone owns and uses a Bose system does not mean they know how to use it properly. The people on this forum are typically more professionally qualified hosts and most likely know how to use Bose systems when they do own and use them. Hence, the debate.

Bose isn't a bad thing at all, in fact I believe them to be a quality product (just not as good as they used to be and not as good as other systems). The set up time on Bose is better than most traditional systems, but the set up time on the EV Evolve system is even shorter than Bose. Plus the sound is outstanding.

As far as price goes, Bose is IMO very overpriced compared to other similar systems. So the "bang for the buck" just isn't worth it. For those who are willing to pay more for Bose, that is their choice. I will never begrudge them for their decisions.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:41 am 
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mrscott wrote:
Bose isn't a bad thing at all, in fact I believe them to be a quality product (just not as good as they used to be and not as good as other systems). The set up time on Bose is better than most traditional systems, but the set up time on the EV Evolve system is even shorter than Bose. Plus the sound is outstanding.

I totally agree with everything you've said in this paragraph except for the part about Bose being a quality product; although you are correct about Bose not being as good as other systems.
mrscott wrote:
As far as price goes, Bose is IMO very overpriced compared to other similar systems. So the "bang for the buck" just isn't worth it. For those who are willing to pay more for Bose, that is their choice. I will never begrudge them for their decisions.

Totally agree with this.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:48 am 
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mckyj57 wrote:
As a singer, usually I go to a gig, see a Bose, and think "Oh brother, the sound will lack punch." That is the downside most of the time. The upside is that I will be able to hear myself well.

Being able to hear yourself well is due to the wide dispersion of line array systems; not because it's a Bose. It's a trait most of these systems share.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:14 am 
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Lonman wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
Brian A wrote:
Robin Dean wrote:
I'm currently using two L1 Model II w/B2's, and a T4S stereo mixer.

It's the best sounding small system I've had to date, and I've had just about everything over the years. YMMV

I agree. Robin, I have the same – Bose L1 Model II with B2 subwoofer and T4S Tonematch Audio Engine. It delivers hard pumpin’ bass and high clarity sound.

Question please @ MrScott: You mentioned the kj was using two bose sticks. Was there a B2 sub? and/or T4s? Thanks.
Attachment:
BoseL1.png

agreed, bass is one thing i am NEVER lacking with the Bose.
what? You have lows with Bose?

excessive. actually have to run the lows about 11 oclock to keep them under control. after the bar mgr figured out it was my bass that was knocking down (and breaking) glasses, i was told to back it down.
never have that problem with 18" subs.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:30 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
actually have to run the lows about 11 oclock to keep them under control.

I have been to many shows where Bose systems were used. And you're right, they do put out a fair amount of bass. However, I have never heard a Bose system produce bass that was clean, tight, and well defined. It always sounded very muddy or boomy to me. So while a Bose system can produce an acceptable amount of bass, I've never been impressed with the quality of it.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:34 pm 
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Alan B, next time you visit the music store give the BOSE F1 sub a test. I'm sure 110% you will be impressed. Your investment is only $1200 and reliability will last you easy 10 years.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/F1Sub--bose-f1-powered-subwoofer

They run at a much lower frequency than the B2.

Start the test with volume at 0 and then turn the mains up to a desired level.
Now turn the volume up very slowly till you blend in just the right amount of sub.
you should not have to go any greater than 10:00.
Attachment:
F1_Subwoofer_Rear_Panel_EQ.png
F1_Subwoofer_Rear_Panel_EQ.png [ 337.07 KiB | Viewed 3315 times ]


This will make you a Bose fan 110%. My Bose rig blows away any of the L1 series. The videos were recorded from an android phone and you can not really define the low frequency bass signals.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:35 am 
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Stop fooling around with this semi-pro stuff. For only $10k, just $4k more than the Bose, you can have a pair of RCF NXL-24a's and a pair of RCF Sub-8004's.

This is ONE SIDE, outdoors, 65' away -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvhH0UkoQf4


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:15 am 
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Hanginon wrote:
Stop fooling around with this semi-pro stuff. For only $10k, just $4k more than the Bose, you can have a pair of RCF NXL-24a's and a pair of RCF Sub-8004's.

This is ONE SIDE, outdoors, 65' away -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvhH0UkoQf4

Sure, if you want to lug around 125# subs, then go for it. Heck, just move on up to Renkus-Heinz etc.

I don't want, or need, stadium/outdoor sound support anymore. Did that, got the merit badge!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:47 am 
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Robin Dean wrote:
Sure, if you want to lug around 125# subs, then go for it. Heck, just move on up to Renkus-Heinz etc.

I don't want, or need, stadium/outdoor sound support anymore. Did that, got the merit badge!

Thanks, I hear ya. I was being facetious, because that's the issue with where this thread is headed.

The real concern with aging DJ's/KJ's (and I'm one) is weight. Sure, a L1 MK2 comes apart into three pieces, but it's combined weight is 57.4 pounds. The F1 sub is 55 pounds, so now you're up to 112.4 pounds per side or 224.8 pounds per stereo pair. This is not counting wires, mixers, bags, etc.

Our next town's American Legion has a KJ running this - I could just cry watching this guy setup while I'm sipping my beer. He now tries to leave it permanently in place when he can.

As previously stated, you can produce as good a sound using non-Bose systems for less money - but, of perhaps even more importance, it can be done with less weight.


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