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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:04 pm 
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a kj friend of mine said the manager of a venue told her that he pays his kj in food from that venue. if i head her correctly, she said to the tune of $75 an hour placed on a gift card only good at that venue. so if a kj works there 4 hours, that's $300 on a gift card for food at that venue? if i heard her right...

i can't get with that. and i hope this doesn't catch on. but i'll give it some serious thought. i mean, i like to eat. and if a venue's saying i sortof can eat free at the venue i work at, i'll look into it.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:20 am 
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8) Sure just go down near the freeway and make a sign "I'll host for food", I hope that is not the next trend in paying for a host. Though many host for beer and food and some pocket change.


On a more serious note though my son has told me that the new economy is going to be barter and not money based. Since money transactions can be traced and of course taxed. In a barter economy very little money changes hands and goods and services are exchanged, part of the underground economy. This offer might be more appealing if it was a voucher for a local supermarket, where you could get more for your buck, what if you don't like what the venue is serving? Maybe you could trade under a barter system the food gift certificate for some other good or service you would like better, or need?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:04 am 
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If your friend has any dignity, she should REFUSE this insane offer to work for food. Why should this job be any different from any other job in which you're given a paycheck? Money pays the bills, food doesn't.

The only way this would catch on is if your friend and others like her were to accept these terms of employment. Anyone with half a brain should realize that this is the type of thing that is hurting the industry.

When the bar owner told your friend "I only pay my KJ's in food", her response should have been: "Well, I only work for cash. Bye Bye".

I consider what the owner is doing to be an insult. If your friend has an ounce of self-esteem, she should run from that venue and never look back.

In my eyes, accepting to work under these conditions makes you "worthless".


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:29 am 
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I might consider it if they agree that I have a right to put up a tip jar so that I can possibly make enough to pay for the songs that I don't already have and pay to replace equipment that gets broken. Otherwise it's cash only.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:34 am 
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Alan B wrote:
If your friend has any dignity, she should REFUSE this insane offer to work for food. Why should this job be any different from any other job in which you're given a paycheck? Money pays the bills, food doesn't.

The only way this would catch on is if your friend and others like her were to accept these terms of employment. Anyone with half a brain should realize that this is the type of thing that is hurting the industry.

When the bar owner told your friend "I only pay my KJ's in food", her response should have beeen: "Well, I only work for cash. Bye Bye".

I consider what the owner is doing to be an insult. If your friend has an ounce of self-esteem, she should run from that venue and never look back.

In my eyes, accepting to work under these conditions makes you "worthless".


8) When you think about it Alan we have all been raised in a money based economy, historically speaking this is a quite recent development. Even during the Depression of the 1930's there was little or no cash in the economy, the way some people survived was by trading goods and services. For example my father's mother raised chickens and traded eggs to buy staples like coffee, sugar, flour, and tea. My father hunted and trapped for meat and furs to trade. My father also cut wood one time for and old model T, and made whiskey on a old wood stove. Before WWII about half the population lived on a farm, and that is why this country did not see so much people starving to death, like in Europe. If ever there was a complete collapse of the modern economy, I wonder how many of us would have the skills to survive? Just because you are not excepting cash for your services but getting paid in goods or services doesn't mean that worth isn't being exchanged. It all depends on whether you are willing to work for what is being offered. After all what you are going to do with the money you earn? Either use it to make a purchase or put it into some kind of investment or savings.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:29 am 
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At $300 a week, you're going to be eating that bar's crappy food for a lonnnnnnnnnnng time :lol:

I've accepted gift certificates for a one-time gig before, and always above the market $$ rate, but would never for a weekly gig. For a one-time gig, or even an "audition" type gig, though, makes good sense for both the KJ and the bar owner.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:45 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Even during the Depression of the 1930's there was little or no cash in the economy, the way some people survived was by trading goods and services..

Well, this is not the 1930's and we are not in a depression. This is the year 2017. We do not barter to pay our credit card bills, or our medical bills, our gas and electric bills, our cable bills, our cell phone bills; and the list goes on. And I don't know anyone who's ever gone shopping at Walmart or food shopping at the grocery and tried to barter for your purchases.

C'mon Lone Ranger, let's get real. It takes money to pay for these things. That's M-O-N-E-Y. The big "M".

Like I said, if you give your services away for free (in this day and age), you're worthless. And you'll become known as such.

I'm sure that bar owners would love to make similar deals with live bands since a good band can be pretty expensive. But all the good bands are booked at many places and for months in advance. And I'm sure you won't find them playing for food or beer money. At least not the good ones.

And remember, this is going to come back to haunt you if after doing a gig for food you decide to go to another bar for cash. All bar owners know each other. It's going to be pretty hard to justify wanting $150 when the owner tells you: "Why should I pay you money when you're doing it down the street for food". What your doing is only screwing yourself.

So here's what's happening... The bar owner is basically telling you; I don't care how much work your job entails, how good you are or how many people follow you. I feel you're not worth getting paid but I'll throw you some food.

Again, if you don't mind someone insulting you like that, then go for it. But for the rest of us, we are professionals who are running a business. It's our job to provide a service to the bars customers, bring in new customers, and keep them coming back. And for that, we are entitled to be paid. Anyone who doesn't think so should not be in this business.


Last edited by Alan B on Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:10 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
I might consider it if they agree that I have a right to put up a tip jar so that I can possibly make enough to pay for the songs that I don't already have and pay to replace equipment that gets broken. Otherwise it's cash only.

Danny, Seriously?? This makes me believe that this is more of a hobby for you and not a true business.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:17 am 
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Alan B wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
Even during the Depression of the 1930's there was little or no cash in the economy, the way some people survived was by trading goods and services..

Well, this is not the 1930's and we are not in a depression. This is the year 2017. We do not barter to pay our credit card bills, or our medical bills, our gas and electric bills, our cable bills, our cell phone bills; and the list goes on. And I don't know anyone who's ever gone shopping at Walmart or food shopping at the grocery and tried to barter for your purchases.

C'mon Lone Ranger, let's get real. It takes money to pay for these things. That's M-O-N-E-Y. The big "M".

Like I said, if you give your services away for free (in this day and age), you're worthless. And you'll become known as such.

I'm sure that bar owners would love to make similar deals with live bands since a good band can be pretty expensive. But all the good bands are booked at many places and for months in advance. And I'm sure you won't find them playing for food or beer money. At least not the good ones.

So here's what's happening... The bar owner is basically telling you; I don't care how much work your job entails, how good you are or how many people follow you. I feel you're not worth getting paid but I'll throw you some food.

Again, if you don't mind someone insulting you like that, then go for it. But for the rest of us, we are professionals who are running a business. It's our job to provide a service to the bars customers, bring in new customers, and keep them coming back. And for that, we are entitled to be paid. Anyone who doesn't think so should not be in this business.


8) All I'm saying Alan is under certain economic conditions people in order to survive use a form of barter or trade to move goods and use service. It has been nearly 100 years since the Great Depression, but we are only one financial collapse or mass farm failure away from similar conditions returning. We have even less of a safety net of self reliant family farms to support much of the population if this were to occur. You act as if you are getting nothing if you are not paid in cash, if you work for an employer not all your wages are in cash, you get medical and pension benefits as part of your payment. When you are in the military you have food, housing and medical as part of your compensation, not just your military pay.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:22 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Alan B wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
Even during the Depression of the 1930's there was little or no cash in the economy, the way some people survived was by trading goods and services..

Well, this is not the 1930's and we are not in a depression. This is the year 2017. We do not barter to pay our credit card bills, or our medical bills, our gas and electric bills, our cable bills, our cell phone bills; and the list goes on. And I don't know anyone who's ever gone shopping at Walmart or food shopping at the grocery and tried to barter for your purchases.

C'mon Lone Ranger, let's get real. It takes money to pay for these things. That's M-O-N-E-Y. The big "M".

Like I said, if you give your services away for free (in this day and age), you're worthless. And you'll become known as such.

I'm sure that bar owners would love to make similar deals with live bands since a good band can be pretty expensive. But all the good bands are booked at many places and for months in advance. And I'm sure you won't find them playing for food or beer money. At least not the good ones.

So here's what's happening... The bar owner is basically telling you; I don't care how much work your job entails, how good you are or how many people follow you. I feel you're not worth getting paid but I'll throw you some food.

Again, if you don't mind someone insulting you like that, then go for it. But for the rest of us, we are professionals who are running a business. It's our job to provide a service to the bars customers, bring in new customers, and keep them coming back. And for that, we are entitled to be paid. Anyone who doesn't think so should not be in this business.


8) All I'm saying Alan is under certain economic conditions people in order to survive use a form of barter or trade to move goods and use service. It has been nearly 100 years since the Great Depression, but we are only one financial collapse or mass farm failure away from similar conditions returning. We have even less of a safety net of self reliant family farms to support much of the population if this were to occur. You act as if you are getting nothing if you are not paid in cash, if you work for an employer not all your wages are in cash, you get medical and pension benefits as part of your payment. When you are in the military you have food, housing and medical as part of your compensation, not just your military pay.


Look, I understand what you're saying but you're not being realistic. Imagine telling the cable guy who comes out fix your cable that's out that instead of paying for his service call, you'll cut his grass. Let's see how big that goes over with the cable company.

And also, what if the food there absolutely sucks? Total greasy spoon place that you wouldn't ever eat at or take your family or friends to eat there also. Then what? Makes those food vouchers kinda worthless for you, don't they. So, you know what? Pay me money and I'll buy my own food. But not here.

Like I said above, the bar owner is literally telling you I'm not paying you because I feel you are worthless. Otherwise, he would be paying you money realizing that you are a hard working professional trying to do a job and earn a living like everyone else. But instead, he has placed no value on you, basically thinking that you're a low life and just deserve to be thrown some scraps.

Now, try to stay focused. We're not talking about the 1930's or about the depression. We're talking about a cheap bar owner who doesn't want to pay for money for someone's services. And the person who has such low self esteem that they would even consider this.


Last edited by Alan B on Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:41 am 
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Alan B wrote:

Look, I understand what you're saying but you're not being realistic. Imagine telling the cable guy who comes out fix your cable that's out that instead of paying for his service call, you'll cut his grass. Let's see how big that goes over with the cable company.

And also, what if the food there absolutely sucks? Total greasy spoon place that you wouldn't ever eat at or take your family or friends to eat there also. Then what? Makes those food vouchers kinda worthless for you, don't they. So, you know what? Pay me money and I'll buy my own food. But not here.



8) Alan you are basing your so called realism on an economic environment that you have grown up with, the idea that this environment could change is not a reality for you. If you keep an open mind and look at recent history, it is possible to see through several examples, of where economic systems fail and others have to be formed in order for people to survive. Naturally this type of barter system is little used if the economic system is healthy and money is the accepted major exchange medium. Right now you can go on line to barter exchanges and trade your services for goods or services. If there were a true break down of the current economic system and money was worthless bartering would be the basis for exchanging goods and services. In the case of a total breakdown if the food was bad, still it would be food. You have to have basic needs met no matter what. So if you have gold what is it worth, if you don't have food or water?

P.S. Recent example Venezuela. Don't think it couldn't happen here, it is just a matter of time before the next financial meltdown, and market collapse. Just look at the current state of karaoke host pay once it was 300.00 a gig, then 275.00, then 250.00, then 200.00, now the sweet spot is around average 150.00 for most hosts. There are those that will play for less, it is all market driven.


Last edited by The Lone Ranger on Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:58 am 
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Alan B wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
I might consider it if they agree that I have a right to put up a tip jar so that I can possibly make enough to pay for the songs that I don't already have and pay to replace equipment that gets broken. Otherwise it's cash only.

Danny, Seriously?? This makes me believe that this is more of a hobby for you and not a true business.

When I first got into the business, one could make a living off of it but in today's environment, I use it for extra money over what I already get that is just enough to pay my bills but leaving very little spending money for things you might consider necessary to survive but are really luxuries to my way of thinking. What I consider necessities is a roof over my head, even if I have to convert the living room of a one bedroom apartment into my bedroom, a basic car to get me to where I need to go as well as having room for my equipment, food on my table, even if it is mostly pasta and meatballs sauce and I could go on but my needs are very limited and you want to know what, I am actually content. I really don't need to have five or six or even seven gigs in a week. I would be totally fine with one gig that paid me $80 for the night. Would I accept more, of course I would. I would have to be crazy not to. Doesn't mean that I just give them a show that is worth only $80 a show. No I always go beyond the scope of the amount of money I get regardless of how much I get paid because I am a perfectionist that is not satisfied unless I am doing my absolute best to make it a show to remember in the best way possible. I run my shows the way I do because I fully believe that it's the only way that it is supposed to be done.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:00 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Alan B wrote:

Look, I understand what you're saying but you're not being realistic. Imagine telling the cable guy who comes out fix your cable that's out that instead of paying for his service call, you'll cut his grass. Let's see how big that goes over with the cable company.

And also, what if the food there absolutely sucks? Total greasy spoon place that you wouldn't ever eat at or take your family or friends to eat there also. Then what? Makes those food vouchers kinda worthless for you, don't they. So, you know what? Pay me money and I'll buy my own food. But not here.



8) Alan you are basing your so called realism on an economic environment that you have grown up with, the idea that this environment could change is not a reality for you. If you keep an open mind and look at recent history, it is possible to see through several examples, of where economic systems fail and others have to be formed in order for people to survive. Naturally this type of barter system is little used if the economic system is healthy and money is the accepted major exchange medium. Right now you can go on line to barter exchanges and trade your services for goods or services. If there were a true break down of the current economic system and money was worthless bartering would be the basis for exchanging goods and services. In the case of a total breakdown if the food was bad, still it would be food. You have to have basic needs met no matter what. So if you have gold what is it worth, if you don't have food or water?

P.S. Recent example Venezuela.


OK. I totally understand what you are saying and I hope it never comes to that. But, in this case, where there's no reason for bartering, we're talking about a bar owner who doesn't place any value on the people he hires and the people who feel they're worthless by accepting to work under those conditions.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:25 pm 
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I'm going to approach this from a different angle...

I get lots of calls to donate my services for a good cause. It happens on average once a week. Pick a cause and someone has called me about it.

I would ask them in exchange for my services, I would like something in return, an ad in their award/playbill/ceremony booklet, or some other form of non disruptive advertisement. sounds simple right?

But more often then not, those exchanges were never delivered upon. I'd look through their promotion material and there isn't anything there at all! Aside from my handing out business cards, there really wasn't much I could do at the event, expect be pissed.

After a few years of this, I changed my ways: I charge my regular price and supply a referral code that gives them 10-25% of the cost back... and it's a 200% return deal: meaning they get the full price of my services back, plus a "donation" in the same amount to their cause. Many have been paid back plus, sometimes it goes above it if I am into the cause or they I got a lot of work from that event. I get my advertising, they get my services, and most of them make some money for doing what they promised. Everyone is happy.

If I am doing this with charitable services, I am certainly not going to do it for a bar who is in business to make a profit! Karaoke is considered a loss leader. We at the location to help the bar make money. I can't pay the bills with anything but cash... Good feelings, food, beer, doesn't pay the bills.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:31 pm 
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Alan B wrote:

OK. I totally understand what you are saying and I hope it never comes to that. But, in this case, where there's no reason for bartering, we're talking about a bar owner who doesn't place any value on the people he hires and the people who feel they're worthless by accepting to work under those conditions.



8) I to Alan hope that it never comes to that, but there is always the possibility of a major financial shakedown at any time. Just because there is no reason for bartering now, unless of course you like trading, doesn't mean that at sometime things could change, things we have no control over. Many people don't even have a basic 90 day supply of food or water. Unless you luck out and you manage a big warehouse out in the wilds there is a chance things could get very desperate. To dismiss any scenario out of hand just because it never occurred to you, doesn't mean it could play out. There is an old saying, "Hope for the best and be prepared for the worst". Everything has a value to someone, ever watch "Storage Wars", you just have to find the right person. If something can be exchanged for cash or like value, then it has a value, at least to someone.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:39 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:

8) I to Alan hope that it never comes to that, but there is always the possibility of a major financial shakedown at any time. Just because there is no reason for bartering now, unless of course you like trading, doesn't mean that at sometime things could change, things we have no control over. Many people don't even have a basic 90 day supply of food or water. Unless you luck out and you manage a big warehouse out in the wilds there is a chance things could get very desperate. To dismiss any scenario out of hand just because it never occurred to you, doesn't mean it could play out. There is an old saying, "Hope for the best and be prepared for the worst". Everything has a value to someone, ever watch "Storage Wars", you just have to find the right person. If something can be exchanged for cash or like value, then it has a value, at least to someone.


Bartering is always fine for some things: helping move someone for pizza and beer is never a bad deal. But if the USA crashes and burns financially, I highly doubt that DJ services are going to be needed much, if at all. :?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:01 pm 
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Toastedmuffin wrote:
Bartering is always fine for some things: helping move someone for pizza and beer is never a bad deal. But if the USA crashes and burns financially, I highly doubt that DJ services are going to be needed much, if at all. :?

Well I guess I better fill up my motorhome and head to Canada. The militia is going to come and take everything so I'm leaving tonight. To hell with Wednesday's show. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:59 pm 
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mrmarog wrote:
Toastedmuffin wrote:
Bartering is always fine for some things: helping move someone for pizza and beer is never a bad deal. But if the USA crashes and burns financially, I highly doubt that DJ services are going to be needed much, if at all. :?

Well I guess I better fill up my motorhome and head to Canada. The militia is going to come and take everything so I'm leaving tonight. To hell with Wednesday's show. :D



8) While I don't believe that total collapse will happen tonight, there is always the possibility, and if it were to happen how would you cope? I don't think we are as tough and resourceful as our ancestors, but then again I could be wrong. With increased specialization we are more dependent than ever on others. I don't think anyone of us should ever close the door on accepting only cash for our services.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:14 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
8) While I don't believe that total collapse will happen tonight, there is always the possibility, and if it were to happen how would you cope? I don't think we are as tough and resourceful as our ancestors, but then again I could be wrong. With increased specialization we are more dependent than ever on others. I don't think anyone of us should ever close the door on accepting only cash for our services.

I’ll never work in exchange for food. You must negotiate what you’re worth. I work in a restaurant and I get paid for what I think I deserve. Being confident of my capabilities to bring on entertainment I also insist that full meal (food to go) be included in that 5 hr work package; not just for me but for my wife (my assistant) as well.

I did work for free before. Once at an x’mas/reunion party for Vietnam vets and their families – on a very tight budget. ‘didn’t even ask how much $$ they allocated for entertainment, I just did it for free. Another was at our local American Legion.

But never say never. I agree with LoneR. Bad times, adversity, misfortune, then who knows, I’d probably do it to put food on the table. 8)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:27 pm 
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Would I accept food instead of money?... Yep. I do it three to four times a year, when I host special occasions (St. Patrick's... ThanksGiving... & Christmas) at our local Senior Citizens' Home.. They used to pay me with a frozen apple pie or two, but since finding out about my diabetes, they now give me a few personal-sized meat pies.

At first... twelve years ago... I argued that I wanted no pay at all, but I've come to understand it's their way of saying "thanks" knowing they've made the pies with their own hands, and it makes them feel good.

Having said all that... would I do the same for a "for profit" organization such as a bar or restaurant? Nope! I've never had to, and don't anticipate I ever will.

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