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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:09 am 
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Sound Choice has updated the SCE site:

Looks good, glad it's up and running in time for the LV trade show that Harrington mentioned here.

Some interesting notes:

Game Choice
Something new I figure. Pub Games like Trivia and Bingo.
Word of warning to the SCE people about any music style bingo though: SINGO has a national system in place already... www.playsingo.com.

A Free (karaoke) music offer (For DJs)
Quote:
Are you a mobile DJ who's looking to add karaoke as an option for your clients? It can be hard to justify making a major investment in quality karaoke music when you don't know if you can get the gigs. We might have a better way.

If you qualify, we can provide you with the music needed to run a high-quality karaoke show: The 6,000+ track Sound Choice® GEM series, plus access to select other titles from our enormous library. There's no up-front charge—just a per-show booking fee that depends on the market and the frequency of use— plus a promise to provide a brief write-up and a couple of photos from each show.

On top of that, you get access to our marketing and research tools, as well as featured listings on our various show sites.

Ready to get started? Just call (210) 305-4929 or email CustomerCare@SoundChoice.com.


And the service is based in... Texas. Interesting


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:43 am 
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8) That's interesting SC is encouraging DJ's to become KJ's as well, that is all the real KJ's need is more competition, many now are struggling, nice time to be retired from full time operation. Anything for a buck. Texas is a good place to setup shop, as I remember there was only one certified host in the whole state, maybe things will change.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:05 am 
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A free upfront Gem for DJ's expanding into Karaoke that they pay for as they go? Interesting, but why not make such an offer to Karaoke hosts?

The current payment plan for KJ's is pretty steep and the primary reason I've never invested in a Gem.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:08 am 
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BigJer wrote:
A free upfront Gem for DJ's expanding into Karaoke that they pay for as they go? Interesting, but why not make such an offer to Karaoke hosts?

The current payment plan for KJ's is pretty steep and the primary reason I've never invested in a Gem.
Become a DJ :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:57 am 
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BigJer wrote:
A free upfront Gem for DJ's expanding into Karaoke that they pay for as they go? Interesting, but why not make such an offer to Karaoke hosts?

The current payment plan for KJ's is pretty steep and the primary reason I've never invested in a Gem.



8) It couldn't be that right this moment they can't touch DJ's for the entertainment they provide currently. If the DJ also becomes a KJ then he could be sued if illegal, if legal they are going to have to lease GEM or get a license. Sounds like money to me.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:59 am 
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mrmarog wrote:
BigJer wrote:
A free upfront Gem for DJ's expanding into Karaoke that they pay for as they go? Interesting, but why not make such an offer to Karaoke hosts?

The current payment plan for KJ's is pretty steep and the primary reason I've never invested in a Gem.
Become a DJ :lol:



8) I have always been a KJ/DJ, I like doing both. Not all KJ's want to DJ and vise versa or they would have a long time ago.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:26 am 
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BigJer wrote:
A free upfront Gem for DJ's expanding into Karaoke that they pay for as they go? Interesting, but why not make such an offer to Karaoke hosts?

The current payment plan for KJ's is pretty steep and the primary reason I've never invested in a Gem.


BigJer, the offer is open to anyone who's qualified, not just DJs. We're looking for talent of any type.

_________________
Since there has been some confusion:
1. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Statements I make here about legal issues are for informational purposes only.
2. I am an officer of Phoenix Entertainment Partners, but my opinions on matters not involving Phoenix's business are my own and may not reflect the opinions of the company.
3. If you have questions you'd like answered officially, you are welcome to email me at jim@phxep.com or send me a private message here.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:02 pm 
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JimHarrington wrote:
BigJer wrote:
A free upfront Gem for DJ's expanding into Karaoke that they pay for as they go? Interesting, but why not make such an offer to Karaoke hosts?

The current payment plan for KJ's is pretty steep and the primary reason I've never invested in a Gem.


BigJer, the offer is open to anyone who's qualified, not just DJs. We're looking for talent of any type.



8) Gee Jim a chance to work with you and be a partner and pay you for the rest of my professional career. No if I was just starting out I think I would have to pass on that. Especially when I know if anything comes down from the publishers or other plaintiffs according to the terms of the contract I will be on my own. You will disavow any connection between us, and I would be left twisting in the wind.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Just perused the site, out of curiosity, and a couple of things come to mind...

1) Where is the list of those that are being labeled "affiliates"?

2) If the licensees are they ones to which this refers, it would probably be of some value to those being given this label to investigate the implications that are assigned to this label, and determine if they are within the scope of the licensee agreement. There has been discussion in the past as to how closely related PEP's verbiage is to that of a franchisee/franchiser relationship, and it could be concluded that this is another step in that general direction...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:21 pm 
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JimHarrington wrote:
BigJer, the offer is open to anyone who's qualified, not just DJs. We're looking for talent of any type.

Well "talent of 2 types" actually:
1) Be able to sign a valid check or credit card receipt
2) Be able to sign a little, teensy, (controlling) license...

Oh, and you now work for them and pay them a commission... forever.
SC site wrote:
There's no up-front charge—just a per-show booking fee that depends on the market and the frequency of use— plus a promise to provide a brief write-up and a couple of photos from each show.

So if your show is slow and the owner/wants to cut you loose or reduce your pay, SC still gets the same amount.... from you. (Operative words here are "booking fee" not "completion fee.")

Once again, only and idiot would agree to this kind of arrangement.... (or perhaps a DJ that doesn't know any better)

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"For all the back-and-forth I have with Mr. Staley, the thing about him is that he follows the law and our policies in his karaoke operations. We have no interest in putting him out of business, because he's not violating the law." -- HarringtonLaw (a.k.a: Jimmy "The Weasel" Harrington)


Last edited by c. staley on Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:32 am 
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Sound Choice is never going to make any money until they offer legal downloads. They can fight the KJs all they want and it's not going to yield the results they want. American karaoke producers will continue to suffer as long as none of them ever fight the real enemy, the Music publishers. I will continue to purchase my tracks from their European counterparts and gladly do so until Sound Choice is either out of business or grows a pair. I guarantee one of the two WILL happen. It's inevitable. Most likely the first scenario, because if they haven't figured out the problem yet, I don't see them suddenly waking up one day and finally getting it. Sound Choice is like the people who still support Trump. If they don't get it yet, they're not going to. They'll continue to fail, yet claim that it's working. I feel sorry for the investors who are keeping them afloat. They're going to lose a lot of money the hard way, but then again, they were gullible enough to believe that KJs would do anything that's more difficult than what's EASILY available elsewhere. When you're that level of stupid, you kind of deserve to be robbed blind.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:58 am 
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KaraokeIan wrote:
Sound Choice is never going to make any money until they offer legal downloads. They can fight the KJs all they want and it's not going to yield the results they want. American karaoke producers will continue to suffer as long as none of them ever fight the real enemy, the Music publishers. I will continue to purchase my tracks from their European counterparts and gladly do so until Sound Choice is either out of business or grows a pair. I guarantee one of the two WILL happen. It's inevitable. Most likely the first scenario, because if they haven't figured out the problem yet, I don't see them suddenly waking up one day and finally getting it. Sound Choice is like the people who still support Trump. If they don't get it yet, they're not going to. They'll continue to fail, yet claim that it's working. I feel sorry for the investors who are keeping them afloat. They're going to lose a lot of money the hard way, but then again, they were gullible enough to believe that KJs would do anything that's more difficult than what's EASILY available elsewhere. When you're that level of stupid, you kind of deserve to be robbed blind.


I agree with this... to a point. PEP need to get with producing music, even if they do limited releases to GEM series holders as CDs thereby controlling their product in a way they would feel comfortable with. I don't know exactly how many GEM series are out in the world, but if they have 300+ users, that's kind of the number they were looking at with the ADVANCED program.

I won't hold my breath on downloads from PEP at this time. As this is a niche market, there is enough brands offering downloads. SunFly, SBI, KV, Karaoke.net already have a large catalog and enough product is out there to more then satisfy the on the fly crowd.

Another thing that PEP has to work on is the time frame from the initial song release to when they release the karaoke track. In the day and age of digital downloads, they need speed up the process. It's the only way they will make a profit off of downloads.

It seems PEP's new strategy is not to put all their eggs in the karaoke basket. The Game Choice concept, offering music to DJs, and becoming more of a entertainment service is showing they are thinking about branching out so karaoke becomes part of the equation rather then the solution.

The problems are that they need to have serious focus, or they are just spreading themselves thin. They need an advertising campaign that I haven't seen, as SCE isn't a brand right now, and they need better PR people to get them back into overall brand recognition.

Like I said, this will be interesting.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:26 pm 
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doowhatchulike wrote:
Just perused the site, out of curiosity, and a couple of things come to mind...

1) Where is the list of those that are being labeled "affiliates"?

2) If the licensees are they ones to which this refers, it would probably be of some value to those being given this label to investigate the implications that are assigned to this label, and determine if they are within the scope of the licensee agreement. There has been discussion in the past as to how closely related PEP's verbiage is to that of a franchisee/franchiser relationship, and it could be concluded that this is another step in that general direction...


First, you can find the list of licensees at https://pep.rocks/licensees.php.

Second, it's important to remember that this is a Sound Choice Entertainment program, not a PEP program. Although PEP owns SCE, it is a separate company with a different management structure and different business lines. PEP is not directly involved in this program.

The free music program does not include licensing, so there are no franchising implications. Rather, SCE is the licensee, and program participants will pay us a portion of the revenue from each show in exchange for use of the music and access to our tools.

_________________
Since there has been some confusion:
1. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Statements I make here about legal issues are for informational purposes only.
2. I am an officer of Phoenix Entertainment Partners, but my opinions on matters not involving Phoenix's business are my own and may not reflect the opinions of the company.
3. If you have questions you'd like answered officially, you are welcome to email me at jim@phxep.com or send me a private message here.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:29 pm 
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KaraokeIan wrote:
Sound Choice is never going to make any money until they offer legal downloads. They can fight the KJs all they want and it's not going to yield the results they want. American karaoke producers will continue to suffer as long as none of them ever fight the real enemy, the Music publishers. I will continue to purchase my tracks from their European counterparts and gladly do so until Sound Choice is either out of business or grows a pair. I guarantee one of the two WILL happen. It's inevitable. Most likely the first scenario, because if they haven't figured out the problem yet, I don't see them suddenly waking up one day and finally getting it. Sound Choice is like the people who still support Trump. If they don't get it yet, they're not going to. They'll continue to fail, yet claim that it's working. I feel sorry for the investors who are keeping them afloat. They're going to lose a lot of money the hard way, but then again, they were gullible enough to believe that KJs would do anything that's more difficult than what's EASILY available elsewhere. When you're that level of stupid, you kind of deserve to be robbed blind.


We don't view music publishers as the enemy. Far from it, in fact. While we wish they would have better business practices as a whole, it's completely reasonable for publishers to profit from karaoke.

_________________
Since there has been some confusion:
1. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Statements I make here about legal issues are for informational purposes only.
2. I am an officer of Phoenix Entertainment Partners, but my opinions on matters not involving Phoenix's business are my own and may not reflect the opinions of the company.
3. If you have questions you'd like answered officially, you are welcome to email me at jim@phxep.com or send me a private message here.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:54 am 
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JimHarrington wrote:
The free music program does not include licensing, so there are no franchising implications. Rather, SCE is the licensee, and program participants will pay us a portion of the revenue from each show in exchange for use of the music and access to our tools.

Of course this is a franchise. If it were not, then SCE would be the one paying PEP for the "exchange" and the "portion of revenue from each show" and not the individual KJ's -- who would be paying "up the line" to SCE if the KJ collected from the venue.

It's simply another "technical side-stepping" to put the KJ's on the hook for a portion of their weekly revenue even if the venue boots SCE and wants to keep the KJ. I'll bet that the "contract" will contain a clause that the KJ will pay them or they will have to stop working there for at least 18 months. Just like most entertainment contracts with agencies.

The more Harrington attempts to explain this, the worse it becomes because if the KJ is supposed to pay PEP.... where does any income to SCE come from? Also the KJ? Maybe the venue directly?

I'd like to know what happens when a venue cancels a night because of the World Series playoff... or other championship game or event.

JimHarrington wrote:
We don't view music publishers as the enemy.
The inability of PEP to get a single license... in order to put out a single song in 7 years ... is fairly evident that music publishers must be viewing PEP as the enemy. KSF doesn't seem to be having any problems or obstacles when it comes to licensing.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:11 pm 
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I'm going to break my rule against reading or responding to Mr. Staley to interrupt his disinformation campaign. After this, back on mute.

c. staley wrote:
JimHarrington wrote:
The free music program does not include licensing, so there are no franchising implications. Rather, SCE is the licensee, and program participants will pay us a portion of the revenue from each show in exchange for use of the music and access to our tools.

Of course this is a franchise. If it were not, then SCE would be the one paying PEP for the "exchange" and the "portion of revenue from each show" and not the individual KJ's -- who would be paying "up the line" to SCE if the KJ collected from the venue.


I don't know how I can be more clear about this. PEP is not involved in this program.

Here is how it works:

1) KJ receives music package from SCE.

2) KJ pays SCE a fee for the use of the music and access to SCE's other tools. This fee is per show, based on the number of shows per month, whether we booked the show or not, the market where the show occurs, etc.

3) Any revenue arrangements between SCE and PEP are incidental.


c. staley wrote:
It's simply another "technical side-stepping" to put the KJ's on the hook for a portion of their weekly revenue even if the venue boots SCE and wants to keep the KJ. I'll bet that the "contract" will contain a clause that the KJ will pay them or they will have to stop working there for at least 18 months. Just like most entertainment contracts with agencies.


Nope. The operator is free to drop out of the arrangement at any time without penalty. They simply have to discontinue using and return our music.

c. staley wrote:
The more Harrington attempts to explain this, the worse it becomes because if the KJ is supposed to pay PEP.... where does any income to SCE come from? Also the KJ? Maybe the venue directly?


The KJ pays SCE, not PEP.

c. staley wrote:
I'd like to know what happens when a venue cancels a night because of the World Series playoff... or other championship game or event.


No show, or no revenue, no cost. If the KJ doesn't get paid, neither do we.

It really must kill you that we're doing something to help people. Sort of blunts your view that we're evil, huh?

_________________
Since there has been some confusion:
1. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Statements I make here about legal issues are for informational purposes only.
2. I am an officer of Phoenix Entertainment Partners, but my opinions on matters not involving Phoenix's business are my own and may not reflect the opinions of the company.
3. If you have questions you'd like answered officially, you are welcome to email me at jim@phxep.com or send me a private message here.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:56 pm 
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How many karaoke music will be made available to the KJ and is the music already converted to Mp3+G or must the KJ convert it? One last question, what is the percentage that SCE is looking to collect from the KJ? Inquiring minds would like to know.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:09 pm 
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bazinga wrote:
How many karaoke music will be made available to the KJ and is the music already converted to Mp3+G or must the KJ convert it? One last question, what is the percentage that SCE is looking to collect from the KJ? Inquiring minds would like to know.
It will probably be under the same terms as "Obamacare" ..... you will have to sign before you can read it :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:47 pm 
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JimHarrington wrote:
doowhatchulike wrote:
Just perused the site, out of curiosity, and a couple of things come to mind...

1) Where is the list of those that are being labeled "affiliates"?

2) If the licensees are they ones to which this refers, it would probably be of some value to those being given this label to investigate the implications that are assigned to this label, and determine if they are within the scope of the licensee agreement. There has been discussion in the past as to how closely related PEP's verbiage is to that of a franchisee/franchiser relationship, and it could be concluded that this is another step in that general direction...


First, you can find the list of licensees at https://pep.rocks/licensees.php.

Second, it's important to remember that this is a Sound Choice Entertainment program, not a PEP program. Although PEP owns SCE, it is a separate company with a different management structure and different business lines. PEP is not directly involved in this program.

The free music program does not include licensing, so there are no franchising implications. Rather, SCE is the licensee, and program participants will pay us a portion of the revenue from each show in exchange for use of the music and access to our tools.



It seems that, based on the general positions of posters here, that it would, at the least, be preferred to be referred to as "affiliated with", as opposed to "affiliates" of...

As I try to become more familiar with the usage of the term AFFILIATE in business relations, I continue to see words like "subcontractors", "parties with interest", and "subsidiary", all of which are akin to franchisee relationships, and most of which appear to be terms that most in these forums do not want in their PEP dealings...

Oh, and not to mention the continuously baffling use of the term "free" in ANY basic agreement in which the provider has any intention other than to have a 0% intake of revenue. Using that term as an enticement is dishonest, at best, since the reality in a situation where revenue is realized, the value of the "free" item is figured into any cost put upon the purchaser--unless, again, there is no intent on receiving any income for any part of the business transaction, to which end there is no indication in this case...


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:28 pm 
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mrmarog wrote:
bazinga wrote:
How many karaoke music will be made available to the KJ and is the music already converted to Mp3+G or must the KJ convert it? One last question, what is the percentage that SCE is looking to collect from the KJ? Inquiring minds would like to know.
It will probably be under the same terms as "Obamacare" ..... you will have to sign before you can read it :lol:

Not quite what I wanted to hear lol


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