OOPs..
There goes the neighborhood..
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| Well, this changes everything. http://karaokescene.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=38163 |
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| Author: | rickgood [ Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Well, this changes everything. |
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/worldnews/5331072/karoke-copyright-payout-from-uk-firms/ |
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| Author: | jdmeister [ Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
OOPs.. There goes the neighborhood..
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| Author: | cousinvinnie [ Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
Posting this now...  Dude! this is old news. Where you been in the last couple weeks?
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| Author: | Brian A [ Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
cousinvinnie wrote: Posting this now... Dude! this is old news. Where you been in the last couple weeks?Cuz, you mean to tell us you knew this major development 2 weeks ago and you didn't post it here? My first time to hear this news from the op; this will definitely affect the karaoke market. 
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| Author: | Bastiat [ Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
Notice that this was a 6th circuit decision ... Bingo, the most corrupt court system in the U.S. So in the first place, what judge rules that a company which has sold its tracks to a Canadian firm that then resells them in the U.S. markets, can decide that these companies infringed on anybody? If my understanding of the Tricersoft story is true (and I have every reason to believe it is), Tricerasoft payed triple royalties on everything it sold in order to avoid a lawsuit, but that was to no avail. I'd be curious it this will even get appealed, as these companies probably don't give a rat's azz what some judge in Nashville ruled. Of course I'm not a lawyer, but I don't believe there is a reciprocal agreement between countries that would allow a ruling from a foreign jurisdiction to apply to a company located outside of their jurisdiction providing they didn't break any laws within their respective countries. I hope these companies can appeal this as far as the Supreme Court. As far as I'm concerned most of these judges in the 6th circuit should be behind bars for corrupting the judicial process. That's far worse of a crime than selling a remake of someone else's music. WTF??? |
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| Author: | rickgood [ Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
cousinvinnie wrote: Posting this now... Dude! this is old news. Where you been in the last couple weeks?My life doesn't revolve around karaoke tracks but I saw it and thought it would make it tougher to get tracks from those big companies. I don't recall seeing you post this? |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
KSF did post this a few weeks back but no big, it's a good reminder to keep an eye on the companies. This probably won't change much of anything - at least yet. From a couple articles I read they are going to appeal it all the way, so until those appeals happen, it will pretty much be business as usual which still could take another year or two. |
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| Author: | dsm2000 [ Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
Bastiat wrote: Notice that this was a 6th circuit decision ... Bingo, the most corrupt court system in the U.S. So in the first place, what judge rules that a company which has sold its tracks to a Canadian firm that then resells them in the U.S. markets, can decide that these companies infringed on anybody? If my understanding of the Tricersoft story is true (and I have every reason to believe it is), Tricerasoft payed triple royalties on everything it sold in order to avoid a lawsuit, but that was to no avail. I'd be curious it this will even get appealed, as these companies probably don't give a rat's azz what some judge in Nashville ruled. Of course I'm not a lawyer, but I don't believe there is a reciprocal agreement between countries that would allow a ruling from a foreign jurisdiction to apply to a company located outside of their jurisdiction providing they didn't break any laws within their respective countries. I hope these companies can appeal this as far as the Supreme Court. As far as I'm concerned most of these judges in the 6th circuit should be behind bars for corrupting the judicial process. That's far worse of a crime than selling a remake of someone else's music. WTF??? With Dumpy and the boys packing the court with "biggest pocket always wins" over "rule of law" judges, the producers are probably not gonna get a fair ruling in the Supreme Court either. |
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| Author: | cousinvinnie [ Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
Bastiat wrote: Notice that this was a 6th circuit decision ... Bingo, the most corrupt court system in the U.S. So in the first place, what judge rules that a company which has sold its tracks to a Canadian firm that then resells them in the U.S. markets, can decide that these companies infringed on anybody? If my understanding of the Tricersoft story is true (and I have every reason to believe it is), Tricerasoft payed triple royalties on everything it sold in order to avoid a lawsuit, but that was to no avail. I'd be curious it this will even get appealed, as these companies probably don't give a rat's azz what some judge in Nashville ruled. Of course I'm not a lawyer, but I don't believe there is a reciprocal agreement between countries that would allow a ruling from a foreign jurisdiction to apply to a company located outside of their jurisdiction providing they didn't break any laws within their respective countries. I hope these companies can appeal this as far as the Supreme Court. As far as I'm concerned most of these judges in the 6th circuit should be behind bars for corrupting the judicial process. That's far worse of a crime than selling a remake of someone else's music. WTF??? Tricerasoft was the first digital download company I've been dealing with back in 2015. They had there Business location setup in Mississauga, Ontario (Approx 45 minutes from where I live. I had a hunch something was up when they started offering Digital Downloads of DK Tracks in their downloads website around the ending there. These guys never paid triple nothing... they scammed what they could and closed up shop and fled. I had a hunch this would happen when SBI posted on their website about Tricerasoft not paying them. It's too bad though because they had very nice software and great marketing idea's. They even removed the SUNFLY app from Apple. The integrated "Buy n' Download directly into the player was a brilliant feature. On a good note the companies are all still in business including my two UK favorites Kingsbridge karaoke & Digitop. |
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| Author: | Elementary Penguin [ Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
The news wasn't "official" until now, still waiting for the judge to award the damages, which from The Sun article rickgood shared seems to have now occurred. Sony asked for and now has apparently been awarded the standard amount of $150,000 per song (per infringement), but the judge could have set a more realistic amount, and that's what I'd been hoping to hear. Realistically, could each producer's track (Zoom, SBI or Mr. E) sold through Tricerasoft to US customers make so much money for that producer that Sony's reasonable share would be $150k? At $2 a song to the end customer? I think the last Zoom track I bought through Tricerasoft before it dropped Zoom was Leonard Cohen's "Closing Time". If Zoom made a whole $1 (which I bet it probably didn't) and half that was profit, then 300,000 other US citizen's had to buy it as well to make Zoom $150k. If Zoom shared its profit 50-50 with Sony, then 600,000 copies had to be sold for Sony's cut to reach $150k. Show of hands here, how many of us were among the 600,000 US-only citizens that bought that song through Tricerasoft? (Probably just me actually  )It's an extreme example, but we can safely say even tracks that sold robustly, thousands of times over through Tricerasoft, didn't average hundreds of thousands of dollars in profit, each, for the producers back in the UK. I wouldn't say Sony isn't entitled to anything, but these amounts are far too astronomical to be founded in any reality. Are punitive damages warranted? I don't think so, because these are the very producers that went out of their way to comply with restrictions on US sales as soon as they were asked to. They all stopped directly selling us US people discs when they were told too. They pulled their content from Tricerasoft, and SBI went out of their way to tell us not to shop there, that those were not authorized sales. Then they all blocked US access to their websites (SBI allows site access, but selectively blocks sale of the affected Sony songs to US customers). In other words, they have clearly tried to comply with what Sony wanted for many years. That's why I don't think punitive damages are reasonable. My heart goes out to these UK producers, especially Joe Blackie (founder of Zoom) who's a stand-up guy who has always tried to run a clean company following the letter of the law, and insisting on the highest quality standards for his product. A few here might remember him from a long defunct karaoke forum he joined before he'd even started Zoom, soliciting our advice and asking us what songs we wanted, pretty much all of which were eventually produced. A real nice guy. He doesn't deserve to be in this position. |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
cousinvinnie wrote: Tricerasoft was the first digital download company I've been dealing with back in 2015. They had there Business location setup in Mississauga, Ontario (Approx 45 minutes from where I live. I had a hunch something was up when they started offering Digital Downloads of DK Tracks in their downloads website around the ending there. |
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| Author: | c. staley [ Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
Bastiat wrote: So in the first place, what judge rules that a company which has sold its tracks to a Canadian firm that then resells them in the U.S. markets, can decide that these companies infringed on anybody? If my understanding of the Tricersoft story is true (and I have every reason to believe it is), Tricerasoft payed triple royalties on everything it sold in order to avoid a lawsuit, but that was to no avail. ... The argument from EMI (as I understand it) is that the the territory of Canada was off limits for distribution of tracks from the U.K. So, even if Tricerasoft paid Canadian royalties or even to Harry Fox in the U.S., the tracks shouldn't have been available to Tricerasoft to pay royalties or sell in the first place. So many people think that a courtroom is all about "truth and justice" and that's planted in their head by television which is not based in reality. |
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| Author: | Bastiat [ Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
Quote: The argument from EMI (as I understand it) is that the the territory of Canada was off limits for distribution of tracks from the U.K. So, even if Tricerasoft paid Canadian royalties or even to Harry Fox in the U.S., the tracks shouldn't have been available to Tricerasoft to pay royalties or sell in the first place. So many people think that a courtroom is all about "truth and justice" and that's planted in their head by television which is not based in reality. There's still ongoing litigation in the Tricerasoft case, and there are people involved in this case that are near and dear to me that don't need my help to get them in any deeper shyte than they already are but I do believe that Guy Marcos was paying very high royalties to Sony, and that he did have a license with Sony's Canadian division either directly or through SOCAN. I think I can say this much, that his U.S. attorney (Roberta) was hit with a Rule 11 sanction and that there were perjury charges filed in this case. It's a big mess. Another 6th circuit nightmare. Had this been in any other circuit other than the 6th, this would have got thrown out before it reached discovery. There are two things you don't mess with in Tennessee, and that is the music publishing industry and the printing industry. Tennessee is the largest printer of bibles in the world, and the courts will protect these two industries at any cost regardless as to one's guilt or innocence. These judges are worse than criminals. |
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| Author: | MrBoo [ Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
So how did this case end up in Tennessee? Publisher's home state? |
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| Author: | Bastiat [ Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
The simple answer is that the 6th circuit is corrupt to the core. All a publisher needs to do is file a case in Tennessee and it's like a black hole. The defendant will never escape that jurisdiction. They'll have to get a writ to the Supreme Court otherwise they're screwed although it would be interesting to see how or if they could collect on whatever judgments are imposed. |
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| Author: | MrBoo [ Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
Thank you. One more follow up as I see some dots that are semi connected with this court system. So the Tricerasoft case was tried there too. And Tricerasoft is in Canada. How did that stick when the overseas judgement probably won't be worth a hill of beans. Does Canada honor US judgments? |
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| Author: | Bastiat [ Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
lonman wrote: They were offering Buykaraokedownload tracks as well along with a couple other defunct manufacturers that were shut down due to licensing to begin with. He was offering downloads through a website called "karaokedownloads.com", is that what you meant to say or was he selling stuff through BKD as well? |
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| Author: | Bastiat [ Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
MrBoo wrote: Thank you. One more follow up as I see some dots that are semi connected with this court system. So the Tricerasoft case was tried there too. And Tricerasoft is in Canada. How did that stick when the overseas judgement probably won't be worth a hill of beans. Does Canada honor US judgments? I was being a bit loose with that post as I don't know the details of the Universal suit if there even was one filed by Universal (I mispoke earlier when I said Sony) against Tricerasoft in the U.S. other than the suit that Tricerasoft filed against Universal in the 6th circuit, and was closed last summer I believe. Universal may have filed a suit against Tricerasoft in Canada prior to that but it was so far back I can't seem to remember if that was the case. I believe there was a protective order placed on the case in Tennessee which I'm guessing may have had something to do with the rule 11 sanction brought against the Tricerasoft attorney, but I don't know for sure if that was the reason. Either way the fact that Tricerasoft filed a suit against Universal in the 6th circuit would suggest that he shot himself in the foot. I understand why he probably did that because his attorney (Roberta DeSalvo) was a practicing attorney in the 6th circuit, but I'm not sure if that was such a good idea. Although the case is closed there are still ongoing actions taking place resulting from the suit. |
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| Author: | JimHarrington [ Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
MrBoo wrote: And Tricerasoft is in Canada. How did that stick when the overseas judgement probably won't be worth a hill of beans. Tricerasoft was selling tracks to customers in Tennessee, so Tennessee courts had jurisdiction over them. MrBoo wrote: Does Canada honor US judgments? As a general rule, yes, as long as the judgment is not offensive to the laws of Canada and the proceeding was a fundamentally fair one. Since their IP laws are essentially the same as the US's, that's no help to Tricerasoft. So if they are going to challenge the judgment in Canada, it will probably have to be on the argument that the proceeding was fundamentally unfair. I have no opinion as to whether that will work. If I had to guess, however, the publishers will try to seize whatever assets they can in the US and rely on the permanent injunction to accomplish their main goal. |
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| Author: | MrBoo [ Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Well, this changes everything. |
Thanks guys... |
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