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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:26 am 
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So once again, it looks like the geniuses who control a vast majority of the music that is published have decided to shoot themselves in the foot in a desperate attempt to control something that they are NEVER going to be able to control.

Until these idiots realize that the only way to win is to accept the realities of the digital age, and freakin' plan for it.


All the legitmate people who run karaoke want is to BUY/PAY FOR THE DAMN MUSIC! The harder the publishers make it, the worst things will get. Why is this so freakin' hard to understand. The last several years have PROVEN that what they have been doing isn't working.

If i thought there was a chance in hell of winning, I would start a crowd fund project to sue, Sony, EMI and the rest of these dimwits for restraint of trade and force them all to license "karaoke works"

That means that when a karoke track is licensed, all the various rights are paid for, but then that karaoke track, belongs to the entity that produced it, just as if it was a new music. Which means they would own the master rights to the karaoke track, and there wouldn't be all this bullcrap over what they can put up, where they can sell it etc.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGGG!

ok rant over

-James


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:11 am 
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Too much work.

According to at least one prominent, long time host, the proper way to do it is hide in the shadows, let other people get sued, and hope they put up the good fight.

_________________
-Chris


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:28 am 
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When the East Coast "Families" decided to go "Legit" (Wink Wink Nudge Nudge)
they started with Union controlled businesses, like "Waste Management" and
"Longshoremen", later branching out to Las Vegas "Casinos" and any
other cash business like vending machines..
Even producing music was good, due to the retaliative lack of sophistication of many minority singers. Even today, Artists need to tour to see profits from the corporate accountants. It seem it takes ALL of the music sales revenue to pay for the office staff.
:shock:

http://www.judiciaryreport.com/music_in ... _mafia.htm

Y0re mileage will vary..


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:36 am 
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The book is on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Stiffed-Story-Mu ... 0060167459


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:37 am 
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Quote:
Editorial Reviews
From Publishers Weekly
Though former Los Angeles Times reporter Knoedelseder has dug up much dirt, his fast-paced tale of music industry nefariousness suffers from convoluted detail. In 1984 a minor tax investigation sics Justice Department attorney Marvin Rudnick on Sal Pisello, a reputed mobster who had planted himself inside MCA Records managing sales of budget "cutout" discs. The story eventually involves strange upheavals inside MCA, a counterfeiting ring, a corrupt cutout dealer who turns on the Mafia, and a band of dishonest record promoters. As Rudnick probes deeper, he faces threats from MCA and odd pressure from his superiors. Knoedelseder suggests that a greater scandal has been missed because the Justice Department, under Attorney General Ed Meese, backed off from making a deeper inquiry into mob involvement in the record industry. Knoedelseder's effort to weave together several court cases, competing investigations and a large cast of characters makes for a confusing narrative. Photos not seen by PW.
Copyright 1993 Reed Business Information, Inc.
From Library Journal
This fascinating look at the underbelly of the music business by a former investigative reporter for the Los Angeles Times will confirm any pessimist's worst suspicion of what lies beneath the glitter and glitz. The complicated story revolves around the ability of organized crime to get a proverbial "foot in the door" at one of the world's largest entertainment corporations during the 1980s. Presenting a large array of bad folks (and a few good ones) seemingly right out of Central Casting, plus the industry's usual copious quantities of sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll, this gripping report is fraught with twists and turns. The book combines a detective story, a plausible account of record industry business practices (in the days prior to the compact disc explosion), and vibrant, memorable characters, all of which make it more interesting than anything a talented fiction writer could devise. Highly recommended.
- David M. Tur kalo, Social Law Lib., Boston
Copyright 1993 Reed Business Information, Inc.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:16 am 
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Even more..

http://www.moldea.com/MCAMusic.html


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:21 am 
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The business plan:

The lobby of the Sony building in New York is 70-feet high and heavy with music business ambience - gold records, photographs and the 'Sony Shop of New Technology'. Upstairs, the main reception is like the lounge of an exclusive club. Young people, dreaming of stardom, stand in wonder breathing in the atmosphere, looking at memorabilia - platinum CDs, photos of stars, framed press reports, Billboard charts. For an aspiring artist or manager, just to step into the building is a thrill. The impression is of a corporation dedicated to the success of its artists, almost altruistic in its understanding of their needs.

Yet it's nothing but a flytrap. Artists go there dreaming of being signed. But out of every 10 signed nine will fail. A contract with a major record company was always a 90 per cent guarantee of failure. In the boardroom the talk was never of music, only of units sold. Artists were never the product; the product was discs - 10 cents' worth of vinyl selling for $10 - 10,000 per cent profit - the highest mark-up in all of retail marketing. Artists were simply an ingredient, without even the basic rights of employees.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:05 pm 
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chrisavis wrote:
Too much work.

According to at least one prominent, long time host, the proper way to do it is hide in the shadows, let other people get sued, and hope they put up the good fight.
Only an idiot would purposely put themselves in a position to be sued wouldn't you agree?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:33 am 
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c. staley wrote:
chrisavis wrote:
Too much work.

According to at least one prominent, long time host, the proper way to do it is hide in the shadows, let other people get sued, and hope they put up the good fight.
Only an idiot would purposely put themselves in a position to be sued wouldn't you agree?


You defended someone who did exactly this.

Idiots and cowards make for good bedfellows.

_________________
-Chris


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:06 am 
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chrisavis wrote:
c. staley wrote:
Only an idiot would purposely put themselves in a position to be sued wouldn't you agree?


You defended someone who did exactly this.

Idiots and cowards make for good bedfellows.

More B.S. from you Chris? I'm shocked!

But, if you're talking about Kevin Cable, I doubt that he purposely put himself in a position to be sued - he most likely didn't give a hoot what your trolling heroes think. So I wouldn't exactly refer to him as either an idiot or a coward - he just didn't waste time on it.

You'll notice that his attorney is the same one that finally got the court system to make a determination on the "legality" of media shifting... And it seems to be that it isn't trademark infringement at all... at least not in the 7th District as Harrington not only lost twice, but whines back to the court for a do-over like a spoiled child that won't take "no" for an answer. Let's see what happens with the Ninth District in November.

As far as you continually attempting to label me as a coward is concerned, you're welcome to repeat that all you want if it makes you feel better... (you know, like a pacifier for a baby)

It won't change a thing because,
  • I don't send them money on an ongoing basis for any reason,
  • I do not purchase anything from them, whereas you've sent them thousands.
  • I don't shower them with gifts of money (like you with the advance program)
  • I don't have to "notify them" of anything, ever.
    (You have to if your library increases by 2% right?)
  • I didn't agree to give them access to accounting/business records
  • I didn't "license a trademark" just because they told me to.
  • I did not pay them protection money in exchange for a "covenant not to sue"
  • I've never been forced to deface my discs with their rubber stamp at their whim
  • I've never surrendered any of my rights to them contractually. (how many do you have? three?)
  • I've never been sued - by them or anyone else for that matter.
  • My breath isn't reminiscent of either (or both) of your hero's backsides.
  • Finally: No, I won't sell you my discs for $2 each.

So pucker up cupcake, the 9th district is around the corner and that might just lead to new and even better surprises...


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:35 pm 
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c. staley wrote:

...

It won't change a thing because,
  • I do not purchase anything from them, whereas you've sent them thousands.
  • I don't shower them with gifts of money (like you with the advance program)
  • I've never been sued - by them or anyone else for that matter.

...

In Chris's defense, I have to say this much:
1. He chose to purchase/license/whatever the Gem Series because he is using it for another system. What he spent on that purchase is probably cheaper than someone else purchasing all of the same discs. There are others here who made the same purchase that Chris did, and they are perfectly happy with their purchase. Maybe you should consider letting that one argument be put to rest.
2. He asked for a refund (and has been refunded) for his "Advance" purchase (as was I (although I let PEP hold onto my $30 several months longer than Chris had them hold onto his $150)).
3. He has never been sued by SC/PEP, or anyone else either, because he chose to take (what he considered to be) a pro-active action towards preventing that (by paying for an Audit). You chose a different avenue towards being pro-active in that.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:34 pm 
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cueball wrote:
In Chris's defense, I have to say this much:
1. He chose to purchase/license/whatever the Gem Series because he is using it for another system. What he spent on that purchase is probably cheaper than someone else purchasing all of the same discs. There are others here who made the same purchase that Chris did, and they are perfectly happy with their purchase. Maybe you should consider letting that one argument be put to rest.
I'm glad that he's happy with it.

cueball wrote:
2. He asked for a refund (and has been refunded) for his "Advance" purchase (as was I (although I let PEP hold onto my $30 several months longer than Chris had them hold onto his $150)).
I'm surprised, and corrected.

cueball wrote:
3. He has never been sued by SC/PEP, or anyone else either, because he chose to take (what he considered to be) a pro-active action towards preventing that (by paying for an Audit). You chose a different avenue towards being pro-active in that.
He and I look at this from two fundamental perspectives:

He looks at it as the cost of doing business – simply a little business agreement that allows him to continue operating the way he wants.

I don't. Contracts are written only for one purpose – lawsuits. If you want to sell me a product, sell it and you're done. Don't come back to me 10 or 15 years later and expect me to pay for it again or expect me to pay for permission to use it. Especially with the ridiculous one-sided contracts that keep getting churned out of PEP.

Chris doesn't have that perspective. I doubt that he ever paid $36 for a single disc. Much less several hundred of them. (How much have you spent over the years for your disks?) He has entered into this industry as it is "winding down" and is purchasing discs for literally pennies on the dollar out of the scrap yard. And that's good – for him – but it doesn't make him the all wise and shrewd businessperson that he portrays himself to be Because he still has to contend with the business that is paying less and less every year. (Ask Lonnie what he paid for discs 20 years ago and how much he got paid.) To make up for that, he has to provide more and more equipment and services – like lighting systems and advertising. And As an added expense, he has to pay for permission so that he does not get sued.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:21 pm 
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If we are going to talk perspectives....

You have runaway from karaoke, I have embraced it.
You hang signs, I hang lights.
You are opaque, I am transparent.
You see decline, I see opportunity.
You have a day job, karaoke is my job.
You paid a fortune, I paid pennies.
You can't use SC, I can.
You shrank, I am growing.....still.

So, you just go on ranting and raving about whatever you want to complain about.

I have been having the time of my life starting and running this business.

Can others say the same about you these days?

_________________
-Chris


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:32 am 
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chrisavis wrote:
If we are going to talk perspectives....

You are opaque, I am transparent.
You paid a fortune, I paid pennies.
You can't use SC, I can.
You shrank, I am growing.....still.

...



OK, and in Chip's Defense, I will say this:
1. Huh??????????? What does that even mean (opaque vs transparent)????
2. Chip already established that in his last post (before yours). So, what was your point here?
C Staley wrote:
I doubt that he ever paid $36 for a single disc. Much less several hundred of them.
...
He has entered into this industry... ...and is purchasing discs for literally pennies on the dollar

3. He sure can use SC... He CHOSE not to do so. Like you (with YOUR CHOICE to be audited by SC/PEP), Chip has CHOSEN not to get audited by SC, and he has stated many times over that he does NOT TRUST them (SC or PEP) when they say he would NEVER be sued for using original SC discs at his show.
4. How did he shrink. By NOT USING SC tracks????????? Chip has very successful shows, and he prides himself on seeing that everyone has a good time. I've been to a few of them, so I know.


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