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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:46 am 
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The United States Court of Appeals for the seventh circuit has upheld a lower district courts ruling against PEP.

Here are some excerpts from the decision... (The emphasis is mine)...

Quote:
Here, the good that Slep-Tone alleges the defendants are improperly passing off as a Slep-Tone product is the unauthorized digital copy of the Sound Choice karaoke track (duplicated from the original CD+G compact disc or MP3+G media supplied by Slep-Tone) made (or obtained from others) by the defendants. We shall assume, perhaps counter-intuitively, that a digital file counts as a tangible good for purposes of the trademark analysis. See Slep-Tone Entm’t Corp. v. Sellis Enters., Inc., 87 F. Supp. 3d 897, 905 n.4 (N.D. Ill. 2015) (citing Cvent, Inc. v. Eventbrite, Inc., 739 F. Supp. 2d 927, 936 (E.D. Va. 2010), and 37 C.F.R. § 6.1(9)). Any number of communicative products—books, music, movies, computer software—are now bought and sold in digital form, many of them exclusively so.

But the question for our purposes is what, if any, tangible “good” the consumer sees, and whether the use of the plaintiffs’ trademark leads to confusion about the source of that particular good.

Recall that the defendants are not alleged to be in the business of selling copies of karaoke tracks, as they might be if their customers were other karaoke operators looking to assemble their own libraries of karaoke tracks, for example. The defendants instead are alleged to play the unauthorized copies for their bar patrons to encourage alcohol and food sales. So what the pub patrons see is the performance of the creative work contained on the copies: they hear the musical accompaniment and they see the corresponding lyrics and graphics.

It is not alleged, nor does the briefing suggest, that the patrons see the physical good in question—the digital file that presumably resides on the hard drive of the bar’s karaoke system. Even if a patron might be aware that there is such a file, she does not see that file or the medium on which it resides, as she might if she were purchasing a karaoke track on a compact disc from a dealer or as a download from an internet website, for example.

The patron sees only the performance of the creative content of the digital file. So far as the patron is concerned, the content could be played from a compact disc, the pub’s karaoke hard drive, or from an internet streaming source. Whatever the source, the consumer sees and hears the same content and her perception of that content will be essentially the same.5

It is true that the pub patron will see the Sound Choice mark and trade dress whenever the graphical component of the karaoke tracks is displayed. This, according to the plaintiffs, is what gives rise to confusion as to the source of the good containing those tracks: Patrons may assume it is a genuine, authorized Slep-Tone product when in fact it is a bootleg copy.

But about what exactly is the patron confused? On seeing the Sound Choice mark, a patron may believe that she is seeing and hearing content that was created by Slep-Tone. And she is.

And
Quote:
But the problem for Slep-Tone, apart from the fact that it does not affirmatively allege that the defendants’ copies are noticeably inferior to their patrons, see n.3, supra, is that the defendants are not passing off a tangible good sold in the marketplace as a SlepTone good. As we have discussed, the defendants are not selling compact discs with karaoke tracks and billing them as genuine Slep-Tone tracks, in the way that a street vendor might hawk knock-off Yves Saint Laurent bags or Rolex watches to passers-by. Whatever wrong the defendants may have committed by making (or causing to be made) unauthorized copies of Slep-Tone’s tracks, they are not alleged to have held out a tangible good sold in the marketplace as a Slep-Tone product. Consequently, the defendants’ alleged conduct is not actionable as trademark infringement.


The nail:
Quote:
For all of the reasons we have discussed, we AFFIRM the dismissal of Slep-Tone’s complaint.


It only seems apropos to use the same phrase that the officer/staff counsel for Phoenix Entertainment Partners directed at me in the last week:

"It must suck to be you."


Last edited by c. staley on Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:12 am 
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Wow!!!! Is that what they call a precedent?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:24 am 
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Humph, Well, now then..... let the games begin.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:26 am 
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Karaoke Croaker wrote:
Wow!!!! Is that what they call a precedent?

Not exactly, but you'll find that most of the other circuits do follow what their counterparts decide on...

(Stand by for the spin.... I'm sure that PEP will have their own dizzying spin on this. You know, like the old, used ones "The Judge made a mistake, The Judge doesn't understand the law..... Staley did it!... He hates us... blah, blah, blah,.. :bigcry: )

I'm thinking that their "certification" was just devalued big time.

I'm smilin' all day.....


Last edited by c. staley on Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:32 am 
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c. staley wrote:
Karaoke Croaker wrote:
Wow!!!! Is that what they call a precedent?

Not exactly, but you'll find that most of the other circuits do follow what their counterparts decide on...

(Stand by for the spin.... I'm sure that PEP will have their own dizzying spin on this. You know, like the old, used ones "The Judge made a mistake, The Judge doesn't understand the law..... Staley did it... He hates us... blah, blah, blah,.. )


Maybe this is a primary reason PEP is entering the KJ market? That will be a whole nother can of worms to be dealt with in court.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:54 am 
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I guess people don't have to pay to media shift after all.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:54 am 
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MrBoo wrote:
Maybe this is a primary reason PEP is entering the KJ market? That will be a whole nother can of worms to be dealt with in court.

Possibly... But they have even larger problems:

On July 15, 2016 a court in Illinois DENIED PEP's motion to show cause against a KJ they had sued for playing tracks where the trademark was stripped out.

Top that off with the recent federal appeals court ruling and it not only slaps the teeth out of them, it really does suck just to be them.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:56 am 
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Now their only targets should be the people selling loaded hard drives and not the people buying them.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:59 am 
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c. staley wrote:
MrBoo wrote:
Maybe this is a primary reason PEP is entering the KJ market? That will be a whole nother can of worms to be dealt with in court.

Possibly... But they have even larger problems:

On July 15, 2016 a court in Illinois DENIED PEP's motion to show cause against a KJ they had sued for playing tracks where the trademark was stripped out.

Top that off with the recent federal appeals court ruling and it not only slaps the teeth out of them, it really does suck just to be them.


So much for the "TRADE DRESS" argument.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:24 am 
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I read it... Pretty killer stuff:
http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2016/D07-21/C:15-2844:J:Rovner:aut:T:fnOp:N:1796014:S:0


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:49 pm 
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Jim left a post on the other PEP thread but for some reason, didn't leave a response here. Must be circling the wagons.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:58 pm 
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Nobody is circling the wagons.

I didn't comment because there is no point in commenting. The ruling speaks for itself. That being said, if you think this will in any way abate what we're doing, you're sorely mistaken.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:03 pm 
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This ruling has let the fish out of the proverbial barrel. According to the ruling, displaying your marks is not an actionable offense. It's gonna be pretty tough to scare people into paying protection money from here on out.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:48 pm 
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So does this mean when someone finally took PEP to court that the court ruled it was never a trademark infringement? If that's the case, I'm assuming the strong arm tactics will shift to the harddrive sellers and not the KJs and rightfully so. Only time will tell.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:07 pm 
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I am so not a PEP supporter, but Harrington is right, it might be a setback, but it won't stop them. The power of just the threat of a lawsuit along might get those people not in the know to comply or settle. Not every defendant or lawyer will know about this case, etc..

I also do root for those people who truly deserve to get sued, hard drive sellers and pirates who never bought a dam thing. Those people are the ones who kind of made our search for new music harder then ever these days.

In any case, they are still getting paid from settlements, audits, HELP licenses, GEM leases, etc. they aren't going anywhere, though some types of funding might be reduced in the future. If they ever do get back into the business of making karaoke, there will be a line of people with their credit cards out, ready to shop.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:56 pm 
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JimHarrington wrote:
I didn't comment because there is no point in commenting. The ruling speaks for itself.
Golly Wilbur, "Words mean things" don't they?

WHARRRRGGLLlLL!

JimHarrington wrote:
That being said, if you think this will in any way abate what we're doing, you're sorely mistaken.
Well, you've done a great job of poisoning your own well and it's not like you have anything better to do anyway...


Last edited by c. staley on Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:00 pm 
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It's just going to make it that much easier for a group of people who lost income and time during their audits to organize a counter suit against PEP...Or perhaps for them to be slapped for filing frivolous lawsuits.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:32 pm 
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POETSkaraoke wrote:
It's just going to make it that much easier for a group of people who lost income and time during their audits to organize a counter suit against PEP...Or perhaps for them to be slapped for filing frivolous lawsuits.

It's not just them.... it also includes all the people whose money they haven taken for an audit and have never performed one. No point it doing that now because it doesn't appear that you need their permission to play from a laptop... or anything else.

They'll continue with the scare tactic for while..... but that will run out too...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:05 pm 
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I'm just waiting for the inevitable class action suit to happen.

I am also wondering about how much money they spent on the CB Trade Dress, and thinking they might have a dead fish there with the new ruling.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:14 pm 
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Toastedmuffin wrote:
Not every defendant or lawyer will know about this case, etc..

I think it's time to spread the word on the ruling of the Appellate Court. But the ruling should be told only to legit KJs. Telling them they can play their legally ripped Sound Choice songs without the need to pay for an audit.

I'm not a big fan of PEP, but I don't like the pirates and harddrive sellers even more! I always felt being forced to pay for an audit when we already paid for the discs was a reason to raise the BS flag!


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