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timberlea
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 Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:09 pm |
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Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
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JD, just by having your music on a harddrive for PROFESSIONAL use is in violation. However SC, CB, et al have said if it is 1:1 and you have possession of the originals, they would not pursue. What is so difficult to understand? Now if you want, you can refuse and take your chances in court. Even if you show 1:1 in court, the judge could still rule that format shifting for PROFESSIONAL use is a no-no. If they do then every harddrive host in the country is open to lawsuits, even if they are 1:1. It is also possible that a judge may rule that format shifting is ok. That's the risk you take. Just having proof of the harddrive being used is all they need to take you to court as the present Copyright Act is written doesn't allow it for PROFESSIONAL use.
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DannyG2006
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:32 pm |
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Dr Fred @ Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:09 pm wrote: DannyG2006 @ Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:23 pm wrote: I know of two that were caught in the web that because they could prove 1:1 compliance that walked away without being charged anything. So those that format shifted their original discs have nothing to fear from Sound Choice or Chartbuster. If you are fully 1:1 compliant, would you walk into court without any legal consultation??? If so then you are a fool. If you hire a lawer/legal advice then expect to spend several hundred dollars plus many hours of your life to prove your innocence. Maybe even thousands. If you are willing to turn over your hard drive and computer to a total stranger to "investigate", then you have no ideas of the potentaial financial danger (passwords, financial info) or a concept of personal privacy. SC has twisted the legal system into guilty first until proven innocent, and that is not how our system works. Especially since their "reason for suspicion" can be nothing more than using the product that they sell in a legal manner. from what I have been told they either did a skype audit in which they showed discs that were randomly chosen or had an investigator do it in front of them so no intrusion on private info was breached.
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leopard lizard
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:58 pm |
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Dr. Fred. There WAS a case that established that a person could shift to an MP# player and give the music they purchased "portability." But that case specified that it only pertained to personal use. There hasn't been a test case for commercial use yet. People are speculating that it could be won but so far no one has volunteered to be the guinea pig.
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Lonman
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:58 am |
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Dr Fred @ Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:32 pm wrote: As for using a computer for personal and business purposes. Most people don't have the money to just buy multiple computers in the real world, and that is NOT a crime. Useable computers are pretty cheap these days. Most off the shelf systems will suffice with most of todays karaoke software. I know someone that bought an Emachine systems from MalWart a couple years back for $250 new & it is used almost every night.
I know i'd never use my personal computer for a show. Not only more stuff on it to possibly interfere with the software, but I don't want any personal info at the show as well. _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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Dr Fred
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:59 am |
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leopard lizard @ Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:58 am wrote: Dr. Fred. There WAS a case that established that a person could shift to an MP# player and give the music they purchased "portability." But that case specified that it only pertained to personal use. There hasn't been a test case for commercial use yet. People are speculating that it could be won but so far no one has volunteered to be the guinea pig.
Of course no-one is going to be the guinea pig because any music producing company knows from their legal advisors that the arguement that format shifting is illegal is not likely to win. Of course the main people that would benifit from clarity in the law (people who have format shifted for commercial reasons) can't start a court case because they have nothing to sue against. How can someone bring a suit claiming a legal right to format shift that no-one is actually preventing them from exercising???
Not only that, but if the music industry did really win a lawsuit declaring format shifting illegal (for commercial use) it would seriously damage the karaoke industry and their sales.
There are a lot of computer run karaoke systems that run with 10k+ songs that were purchased legally 1:1, but few DJs that are willing to lug around over 1000 disks to a show. The karaoke industry knows that format shifting HELPS their sales with many KJs.
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Dr Fred
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:12 am |
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Yes computers can be bought cheaply, and yes I own more than one.
HOWEVER I do not run my karaoke show on my FASTEST computer, but an older one that at one time was my main personal PC, that contained my personal info.
I see no reason to wipe everything personal from this machine. Especially as it provides a backup of some personal items on my main machine.
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Paradigm Karaoke
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:16 am |
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Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:24 pm
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Wall Of Sound @ Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:51 pm wrote: Paradigm Karaoke @ Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:36 pm wrote: Sound Choice @ Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:38 pm wrote: enzoab @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:27 pm wrote:
Are all of these hard drivers pirates? From what I’ve seen and based on my experience with technology I’d say yes.
Knowing this, should I (we) start turning these people in?
Yes, why would you not want to help eradicate a souce of "disease" that is helping to kill the industry. Some have posted on another forum that it's Sound Choice's actions that have venues dropping karaoke - but if it's working for them, why would they drop it? As you have stated here, it's more the crappy and amateurish hosts (mostly pirates) AND an over saturation of them that most likely has venues dropping karaoke. You can report pirates here http://www.soundchoicestore.com/report- ... pg-61.htmlso you say all of the hard drivers are pirates? i and many people on this forum are 1:1 and on that same forum you are calling us pirates? yes, pirates are a major problem, yes they need to go away as well as the crappy and amateurish hosts that dont care about our business. it has been posted may places that some venues have been scared away from karaoke because of the lawsuits, and these come from people who have been told by the venues "hell no i wont do karaoke with all that crap going on" i know i have by 4 different places. it's not that you are trying to get the pirates, it's the shoot first ask questions later that spooks them. on the other side the crappy ammateurish hosts are what some venues want. there are 2 active threads of people in fear of or already lost shows to the cheap crappy hosts. all the venues see are dollar signs. i do not support these hosts or pirates in any way, but i just had to disagree with your statement that the crappy hosts are the reason for venues dropping karaoke. i believe many venues have karaoke BECAUSE they can get the guy that only wants $50.00 a night instead of the more highly paid pros. i have never lost a show because of lack of people, i have lost 3 shows total, all 3 because some guy offered it cheaper. I guess it's just the price of doing business in this field, venue or KJ... Spoke with Chartbuster today & will be doing my audit with them soon since I have media-shifted all of my discs to computer hard drive myself. I look forward to a pleasant experience with them.... Oh, BTW... All computer KJ's may want to contact them very soon if you have shifted any Chartbuster content to computer.... [schild=4 fontcolor=000000 shadowcolor=FFFFFF shieldshadow=1]CB Cheerleader[/schild] from chartbuster site
The original compact disc on which you purchased your Chartbuster Karaoke tracks is the only licensed copy you may use for karaoke purposes. Therefore, while you may choose to migrate your backed-up tracks between devices in order to accommodate changing technology, the original copy is the only one which may be used for karaoke. If your original disc should become damaged, stolen or lost, we have a specially-priced program specifically to replace the original for you.
The sole exception to this when you purchase Chartbuster Karaoke tracks as digital downloads. You may not make archive copies of these tracks at all, for any purpose. Your original digital copy is the only licensed copy that may be used for karaoke purposes.
on their site and on this forum they have said no to 1:1, at least SC says they will allow 1:1. going through an audit with SC i get, but someone who specifically says you cannot use a 1:1 copy, are they changing their rules?
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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens
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leopard lizard
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:19 am |
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Have heard that CB is going to clarify their stance on 1:1 soon.
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Dr Fred
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:13 am |
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I am so glad that SC and Chartbuster have decided to tell write the laws regarding copying karaoke disks.
THIS IS SARCASM.
It so happens that I seem to remember that in the US we have a court system and a government that decides these laws, not a corparation.
Even if the laws are ambiguous we are not served by blindly following one side's interpretation of the law, especially if that interpretation is by a party that has a
financial incentive.
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leopard lizard
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:09 am |
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I believe SC and CB are required to work under the laws as written. The only thing they are interpreting is saying that a use may not be within the current laws but THEY won't come after you if certain comditions are met. They are not gauranteeing that others won't come after you. They can't rewrite the law themselves. But I think a lot of the end users feel that they should be able to do whatever they want and resent anyone who tells them differently.
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Lonman
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:42 pm |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm
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Dr Fred @ Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:12 am wrote: I see no reason to wipe everything personal from this machine. Especially as it provides a backup of some personal items on my main machine.
You wouldn't have to wipe anything, you remove the hard drive, store it and insert a new hard drive and start fresh. When you want to access anything on the old drive (which I don't understand if it's stuff you need on the new computer, you just transfer that data to the new computer or drop it to some other storage), you just get a USB external kit that you just plug your old drive into. Simple, fresh dedicated karaoke only computer with absolutely no personal data or info on it. _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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Wall Of Sound
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:50 pm |
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Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:35 am
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leopard lizard @ Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:19 am wrote: Have heard that CB is going to clarify their stance on 1:1 soon.
Debi Stovall, President of Chartbuster, has clarified with me personally that Chartbuster will not sue anyone who is 1:1 ~ An audit is needed first before any covenant is issued. I am preparing for my audit which will be a Skype Webcam Audit.
Again, my advise is this, "If anyone has media-shifted Chartbuster karaoke content off of their original Chartbuster CDG's, it would behoove you to contact Chartbuster ASAP to avoid any snares that may be lurking on the horizon regarding their product."
Take it with as many grains of salt as you wish, for ultimately, one will have to deal with what's coming one way or another.
Peace
[schild=4 fontcolor=000000 shadowcolor=FFFFFF shieldshadow=1]CB Cheerleader[/schild]
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Paradigm Karaoke
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:11 pm |
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good to know they are changing. i thought CB & Stellar were covered by the SC audit. haddn't they given SC authority to search for them as well? thought i read that on here before.
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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens
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Dr Fred
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:14 pm |
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Lonman @ Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:42 pm wrote: Dr Fred @ Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:12 am wrote: I see no reason to wipe everything personal from this machine. Especially as it provides a backup of some personal items on my main machine. You wouldn't have to wipe anything, you remove the hard drive, store it and insert a new hard drive and start fresh. When you want to access anything on the old drive (which I don't understand if it's stuff you need on the new computer, you just transfer that data to the new computer or drop it to some other storage), you just get a USB external kit that you just plug your old drive into. Simple, fresh dedicated karaoke only computer with absolutely no personal data or info on it. Install new hard drive, re-install windows and other essential software is going to take a lot more time and money than copying and cleaning the hard drive. For similar capacity laptop harddrives cost far more than portable ones.
Regadless I keep an eye on my machine and don't worry about it getting stolen because it is rarely out of my sight at shows. I want my personal data on it because it is convenient. That is a choice I should be allowed to make.
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Paradigm Karaoke
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:25 pm |
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Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:24 pm
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Chartbusters........what have you got to say about this? are you doing audits?
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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens
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Lonman
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:00 pm |
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Dr Fred @ Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:14 pm wrote: I want my personal data on it because it is convenient. That is a choice I should be allowed to make.
If you say so, I find quite the opposite personally.
Took no more than an hour to load a new drive on my system and load it. But hey....to each their own. _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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jdmeister
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:59 am |
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Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2002 4:12 pm
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I back up personal data all the time on repair orders.
After back up, create a new user name, and log off the current user, log on the new user and delete the original user, select delete all files..
It takes about 5 minutes.. Clean as a new baby..
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Lone Wolf
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:01 am |
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Dr Fred @ Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:13 am wrote: I am so glad that SC and Chartbuster have decided to tell write the laws regarding copying karaoke disks.
THIS IS SARCASM.
It so happens that I seem to remember that in the US we have a court system and a government that decides these laws, not a corparation.
Even if the laws are ambiguous we are not served by blindly following one side's interpretation of the law, especially if that interpretation is by a party that has a
financial incentive.
What is it you don't understand?
SC, CB, Steller and whoever else can not give permission to copy the music/lyrics from their disc to a hard drive as they do not have the power to do so.
What they have said is that they will not go after those that have if you can prove that you have the original disc it was copied from, of course the original owners of the music could if they wanted to.
What SC, etc. are going after those that do not have the discs IS NOT THE MUSIC but their TRADEMARK and they are not rewriting any laws, if they see their trademark being displayed and you do not have the original discs that it was copied off of then they can take you to court for TRADEMARK infringement not COPY WRITE infringement.
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enzoab
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Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:42 am |
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Quick update from out here in So Cal; I’ll be going to that venue in San Berdu to talk with the KJ on Sunday. While talking on the phone with them I was told...
“Most of the KJ's up here are now not playing Sound Choice, have deleted from their systems and they won’t play a customers disc if it’s a Sound Choice disc or track.”
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Wall Of Sound
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Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:00 am |
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enzoab @ Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:42 am wrote: Quick update from out here in So Cal; I’ll be going to that venue in San Berdu to talk with the KJ on Sunday. While talking on the phone with them I was told...
“Most of the KJ's up here are now not playing Sound Choice, have deleted from their systems and they won’t play a customers disc if it’s a Sound Choice disc or track.”
Good. When will they be deleting all of their Chartbuster?
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