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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:26 pm 
Recently a KJ was “busted” at a club called the Lamplighter restaurant:

Ye Old Lamplighter
255 E 40th St
San Bernardino, CA 92404-1349

http://www.myspace.com/thelamplighterrestaurant

This is what I was told; second hand, by a very popular and always out there singing singer.

Somebody came in to the Lamplighter (investigator or a web bust, they weren’t sure), the Sound Choice logo was seen and the KJ was informed (in what exact way they weren’t’ sure) that he would be sued if he didn’t pony up $7k. The owner was told that they would be sued as well.

The owner then told my buddy that the other 6 venues this KJ has gigs at were also going to get sued.

I’ll try to locate this KJ and get a more detailed first hand report.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:38 am 
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as far as i understood, investigators are not supposed to confront the host or owner, just gather information. if i am correct in that statement, it sounds as if another gost wants those shows and is applying some fear-mongoring tactics.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:42 am 
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Kinda sad really.. extortion and all like that..

Pay or be sued.. Yup, that's extortion..

What about sue me and I win? Then sue them for atty cost plus slander...


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:54 am 
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sound like an impostor

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:01 am 
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So JD, you buy a house and don't pay the mortgage and the lender says pay up or we'll sue you, so that's extortion. You rack up your credit card and the lender says pay or get sued, that's extortion then, is that right? This is no different. If a host doesn't have originals then the manufacturer has the right to say pay up or be sued. No extortion, just rightfully going after what is their due.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:52 am 
Jian @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:54 am wrote:
sound like an impostor


I'll do my best to get first hand information.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:18 am 
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jdmeister @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:42 am wrote:
Kinda sad really.. extortion and all like that..

Pay or be sued.. Yup, that's extortion..

What about sue me and I win? Then sue them for atty cost plus slander...


A suspected user of SC content on computers without original discs visibly present at commercial venues would receive a "letter of intent to sue" before any lawsuit is filed that would create a public record so no slander.

It would be cheaper to agree to an audit than to fight them in court.

If a KJ is compliant with the 1:1 ratio, that KJ would have nothing to worry about since they would be cleared in an audit.

Also CB & PHM are just around the corner preparing for their opportunity to find out who is legit & who isn't using their copied content.

The only people who have to worry are the thieves themselves so no extortion.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:43 am 
>>> The only people who have to worry are the thieves themselves so no extortion. <<<

It seems that the owners, who might know nothing of this situation, while not being extorted either, are getting messed nonetheless.

Does anyone know if SC has made any attempt to inform owners in some kind of media campain of what's going on?

Or do they just treat the owners in the same manner but without an audit?

Ignorance is no excuse?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:16 am 
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I know that in some areas, letters from the organization that shall remain nameless were sent to every venue that advertised having karaoke before any investigators arrived on the scene. So the venues did have a warning. Also, SC has developed a program they call Safe Harbor that is designed to educate the venues but I don't know if any mass mailings have gone out yet.

From the way they have handled it in the past, if a venue and host have been named and the host either passes an audit or settles, then the suit is dropped against the venue. I think the venue also has to agree to hire a legal host in the future but not sure on that point.

I think that it is less a matter of the venue not being informed and more that the venue got a "How to tell if you have a legal host" letter and ignored it.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:27 am 
leopard lizard @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:16 am wrote:
I know that in some areas, letters from the organization that shall remain nameless were sent to every venue that advertised having karaoke before any investigators arrived on the scene. So the venues did have a warning. Also, SC has developed a program they call Safe Harbor that is designed to educate the venues but I don't know if any mass mailings have gone out yet.

From the way they have handled it in the past, if a venue and host have been named and the host either passes an audit or settles, then the suit is dropped against the venue. I think the venue also has to agree to hire a legal host in the future but not sure on that point.

I think that it is less a matter of the venue not being informed and more that the venue got a "How to tell if you have a legal host" letter and ignored it.


That sounds like the way to go, given the nature of the situation.

I think we're all in agreement that after the digital genie escaped the bottle and landed in hundreds of hard drives, the magic of karaoke evaporated as it turned into a cheap distraction instead of a proper form of entertainment in a general sense.

In my area, there are hard drivers everywhere; maybe a 10 to 2; hard drives to disc based, and the majority of those hard drive shows have issues… No binders, crappy sound, inattentive hosts, etc.

Are all of these hard drivers pirates? From what I’ve seen and based on my experience with technology I’d say yes.

Knowing this, should I (we) start turning these people in?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:31 am 
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enzoab @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:26 am wrote:
Somebody came in to the Lamplighter (investigator or a web bust, they weren’t sure), the Sound Choice logo was seen and the KJ was informed (in what exact way they weren’t’ sure) that he would be sued if he didn’t pony up $7k. The owner was told that they would be sued as well.


That's likely an impostor. Sound Choice investigators make a point of not identifying themselves.

Have him arrested for fraud next time he shows up.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:56 am 
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Gotta be an imposter.

First no SC investigator would tell anyone that and no attorney would write a letter stating such.

Second they would never quote a price to not be sued, it's just not what SC does.

We have heard the way that SC is going about investigating people and this is just not how they are doing it.

Besides that how does the investigator know he is not legal. Come on now don't be so naive.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:09 am 
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In regards to the "investigator" and his tactics, what he did was not legitimate and falls out of his scope of authority. As stated in other posts all he or she would do is observe and write their report to the client. The client takes action, not the investigator.

enzoab, under the law, both criminal and civil, ignorance is no excuse. In other words a venue or a host cannot use "I didn't know the law" as an excuse. If one could, then everybody would use it to get out of trouble.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:30 pm 
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i own the disk for every song i have, i showed said disks to each venue so they know i am legit. this is not like defaulting on a mortgage, with a mortgage there is a signed document saying i will pay, and if i dont, default. this is like Ford suing me unless i can prove that i am not driving their car over the posted speed limit. they have no proof that i have driven over the limit, but since they made the car they can force me to prove that i have not under threat of paying them more money for the privilage of continuing to keep the car i paid for.

a pirate should get what is coming to them, and i believe this guy was an imposter trying to thin the competition in his area and should be hanged from a tall tree by his testicles. but to say that i am nthe same as someone maxing out credit cards i dont intend to pay or defaulting on my mortgage is insulting.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:37 pm 
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timberlea @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:01 am wrote:
So JD, you buy a house and don't pay the mortgage and the lender says pay up or we'll sue you, so that's extortion. You rack up your credit card and the lender says pay or get sued, that's extortion then, is that right? This is no different. If a host doesn't have originals then the manufacturer has the right to say pay up or be sued. No extortion, just rightfully going after what is their due.


Sorry Tim

It's still extortion..

Any host that buys legal disks and runs a show, and then is told to pay up or be sued, that's crap..

The cost of litigation these days is nothing to sneeze at..

They use the threat of suit to force an "Audit" that is not legal anywhere without solid proof a "Crime" has occurred.

The crime is the SC logo on a legally purchased disk playing at a licensed venue?

GTFO, SC..

As I have stated in an earlier thread, there is a tax on music CDs designed to pay the MFgers for copies made by disk owners..

This tax has been there from the beginning of CDs.

Show me where the MFGers are being paid any of these monies..

I understand that this nebulous tax does not cover ripping to the hard drive, but that seems to be allowed.

The RIAA uses the same threats to secure funds..

Show me any proof that RIAA fines are funneled to the songwriters/artists.

It's all a big scam.. It's run just like the MAFIA..

Eff them all..


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:49 pm 
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As a follow up I copy/paste the text from my buddy Mark Gibbs..

Quote:
The ongoing war between Big Media and Internet users shows no sign of de-escalation. When I write "Big Media" I mean the likes of the Motion Picture Association of America (the MPAA), the Recording Industry Association of America (the RIAA) and a number of other organizations.

Over the last few years Big Media has executed a campaign of harassment, extortion and prosecution of alleged pirates. This offensive has targeted corporate entities such as Napster, which was squeezed and sued into oblivion, and private citizens such as Jammie Thomas Rasset, who was fined $1.92 million for downloading 24 tracks (which she could have got from iTunes for just over $12).

Indeed, the extent of the RIAA's prosecution of consumers is impressive, involving actions against more than 30,000 individuals with the majority settling out of court for around $5,000 each.

The problem with what Big Media is doing is that they can't win. If the U.S. federal government is pouring billions of dollars into the "war on drugs" with little or, as some would argue, no results, what can the well-heeled members of Big Media achieve against the piracy of non-physical property?

Big Media vs. everyone will not work because the marketplace has changed and the digital world has made their way of business untenable. They are enormous, lumbering analog dinosaurs in a world of nimble, digital mammals. What they need to do is change their business models, but to do that, they must change how they think about their business and themselves.

I have a 12 step program for them:

1. They must admit that they are powerless in the digital world -- that their business models have become unmanageable (and unfeasible).

2. They have to believe that the Public, which is greater than them, will drive them to insanity if they continue as they are doing (some might argue this has already happened).

3. They must make a decision to turn their business and their profits over to the care of new business models that don't involve hostility towards and gouging of customers.

4. They must make a searching and fearless moral inventory of themselves (this might be asking a lot).

5. They must admit to the Public, to themselves, and to each other the exact nature of their failings.

6. They must be entirely ready to change all of their defects of character.

7. They must humbly ask the Public to pay reasonable prices for excellent content.

8. They must make a list of all persons they have harmed and be willing to make amends to them all.

9. They must make direct amends to such people wherever possible, except where doing so would injure them or others (this will most likely not happen, but it would be nice …).

10. They must continue to take personal inventory and, where they were wrong, admit it.

11. They should seek through prayer and meditation to improve their conscious contact with the Public as they understood Them, praying only for knowledge of what the Public actually wants and the power to deliver that.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, they must try to carry this message to all other owners of decaying business models, and to practice these principles in all of their affairs.

So, ladies and gentlemen of the MPAA, the RIAA, et al, we'll have the first meeting at my house. Please leave your lawyers at home.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:28 pm 
Moonrider @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:31 am wrote:
enzoab @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:26 am wrote:
Somebody came in to the Lamplighter (investigator or a web bust, they weren’t sure), the Sound Choice logo was seen and the KJ was informed (in what exact way they weren’t’ sure) that he would be sued if he didn’t pony up $7k. The owner was told that they would be sued as well.


That's likely an impostor. Sound Choice investigators make a point of not identifying themselves.

Have him arrested for fraud next time he shows up.


I just called them up. Here's what they told me...

Some guy was singing, he started to ask a bunch of questions at the KJ, he was informed right then and there that his hard drive might be an issue. I was told that this KJ is in negations with them and that the issue is still open. I asked them if they thought this was a real charge, etc., and they just don’t know but they said it "feels" like a con or fraud. They think it might be a fraud because of the way it’s going down.

I asked them if I could come and talk with the KJ (he’s still on the job) and they said sure. He supposedly has all the discs and he dropped them onto the hard drive but…

When somebody brings in a disc, he’ll up load those as well and a convenience for regulars… interesting.

Anyway, I’ll drop by there this week and I’ll have a talk with him.

I think you guys are right, sound like a con job to me, real investigators don’t behave this way. The less you know the better until they pull the trigger.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:37 pm 
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I am sorry I can't take SC seriously as a producer or seller of disks any more.

Has anyone else noticed that they have had dead links on their web page (for the mortar discount on discs) for several months, but they have had the time to come up with a several edition of the GEM series "contract" to close any of the loopholes that might not absolutely favor SC.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:10 pm 
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enzoab @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:28 pm wrote:
Moonrider @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:31 am wrote:
enzoab @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:26 am wrote:
Somebody came in to the Lamplighter (investigator or a web bust, they weren’t sure), the Sound Choice logo was seen and the KJ was informed (in what exact way they weren’t’ sure) that he would be sued if he didn’t pony up $7k. The owner was told that they would be sued as well.


That's likely an impostor. Sound Choice investigators make a point of not identifying themselves.

Have him arrested for fraud next time he shows up.


I just called them up. Here's what they told me...

Some guy was singing, he started to ask a bunch of questions at the KJ, he was informed right then and there that his hard drive might be an issue. I was told that this KJ is in negations with them and that the issue is still open. I asked them if they thought this was a real charge, etc., and they just don’t know but they said it "feels" like a con or fraud. They think it might be a fraud because of the way it’s going down.

I asked them if I could come and talk with the KJ (he’s still on the job) and they said sure. He supposedly has all the discs and he dropped them onto the hard drive but…

When somebody brings in a disc, he’ll up load those as well and a convenience for regulars… interesting.

Anyway, I’ll drop by there this week and I’ll have a talk with him.

I think you guys are right, sound like a con job to me, real investigators don’t behave this way. The less you know the better until they pull the trigger.






"When somebody brings in a disc, he’ll up load those as well and a convenience for regulars… interesting."

Is it just me or does that sound like piracy to me, regardless of what the reason he does that. If he does in fact do that then he is no better than the guys that copy someone else's hardrive, and I don't care if he does have all his discs. Nice way to add to his collection huh? Someone needs to get this guy educated.

"

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:00 pm 
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only possibility other than pirate is he is using hoster and "loading those up" is how the owner sees it. hoster rips to a temp file so maybe thats it. (giving benefit of the doubt)

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